Well, I want to make a new topic involving the luck that will be in yugioh during the next ban list. Some of the more urber powerful cards may be gone but that alos increases as well as decreases luck. My theory is:

70% - 80% luck is still isvolved in the game of yugioh.

Err.... it's like.... 100% (unless you cound the deck, in which case, it still doesn't matter, because EVERYBODY netdecks)


If you count the deck, it's like... 60% luck. there is NO skill in YGO watsover, you just need good cards and you are set.

I mean while you are dueling. You have to have some skill and some good cards or you won't get anywhere most of the time.

I commented on this before newz put the boots to the old republic.

Anyway you can't control the cards you draw quid hoc procter hoc....

Then it's all just fractions and probilities if you want to try and argue.

Anyway....

On an unrelated note...Schrodingers Dark Magician.

I have 2 cards left to draw, I know I have 1 Dark Magician left in my deck. The card I draw has an even chance of either being the Dark Magician or not being the Dark Magician. Hence until I look at the card it exists in a state where in it is both the Dark Magician and also not the Dark Magician.

Physics is silly.

ok, I've been flip-fop on this topic before.

At the very beginning of the year, I said about 25-30 percent, then with the last list, I said about 75-80%! I think now, with the trinity gone, there's a lot less luck involved. I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there seems to be a better use of most decks, and the game is much more balanced. It's true that you gotta depend on your top-decks more, but with a "better" balance of cards in this new format, less luck is needed.

So I'm going to say that luck is about 55-60% in the game. Still a lot, but not insane luck like before.

I aggree with ProfessorBrimstone, with the new ban list a lot less luck is required and more skill, a person I know prooves this day in and day out, he has 0 skill and looses all the time, but if we use his deck(which we built) we can win quite oftern, so in all I say more skill is required now.

Well I understand skill, luck, and cards are colser to being balanced but the new ban list still does require a good amount of luck. I mean you have to rely on you drawing the cards more often now then wishing for a Pot of Greed or a Graceful Charity that will slim down your deck and lower the random circumstances.

The lowest number I could possibly go is 65% Luck, 25% Skill, 10% Cards.

Yeah but now that we have had this ban list for about a month now, I have noticed that more cards are used to thin decks out than what was used befor, like now a days I have seen a deck that runs 3 dekochies, cyber and morphing jar and a Card Destruction just to help thin the deck, so what you were saying about less cards are used to thin deck, atleast where I live, is wrong.

It is not wrong where I live. The ppl here are not worried about slimming their deck down. Other than Morphing Jar, there aren't many cards ppl are running.

50%, I'd say. It's half luck and half skill.

The cards you have matter too.

I think of it this way:

Deck Building: 35%
Luck: 35%
Skills: 30%

i dont think there is that much luck invovled.

but there is a fair amount. the thing is, with skill, youll beat luck more often than not.

the only time luck prevailes really is when it ends the game.

sure, your opponent topdecked pot of avarice at JUST the right time, but that doesnt mean you WONT BE SOON. its still in your deck, so you can still get to it.

what i mean is, ive seen the best of luck.
Paul Levitin (less luck, more cheating) at shonen jump indy, GOD HANDED on me, and i beat him anyway. lol. luck isnt 70% im going with something closer to 30-20%

there is tons of luck involved if you are not lucky then you must have enormous maouts of skill and know what to do at the exact right amount of time i am not really lucky anymore so i know this i still have a lot of skill thought so i am pretty good skil to luck ratio

skill 10%
luck and heart of the cards 90%

wow, thats crazy. cause i draw TERRIBLY.
if you have a good deck, you have MINIMAL chances of drawing "bad hands". frankly, if you draw a hand you can do NOTHING with, then your deck is bad. every deck should be made for optimal topdecking possibilities, so when you draw a bad card on a topdeck, thats a flaw in deckmaking. not luck. also- unless you got delinquent duo-ed twice, you shouldnt be topdecking. thats a result of bad playing. lolz.

the only way luck can REALLY hurt you is in the opening plays of the game. thats when they arent earned at all.
IE- opening move of nobleman+MST+spirit reaper. those are annoying, especially when they snag a dark hole from your hand.

BUT- that happens to me all the time. its kind of... get over it. with skill, overcome the obstacles. its not hard, just conserve your cards and do the math. if you run out of cards, thats normally your fault. if you are looking for a topdeck... FIX YOUR DECK. the only cards in the format that push topdecking are dark hole, heavy storm and torrential tribute. thats about it.

we all get luck sacked. but that should only account for like... 10% of games. i had TERRIBLE luck at shonen jump indy. a total of 8 games resulted in an opponent playing pot, duo, AND graceful OPENING HAND. doesnt mean i didnt win, cause all it takes is a little brains.

i have no luck in this game, so im talking from the bottom of my heart when i say...

20% luck
80% skill

and by luck, i really mean fate.

I'm not very lucky, so I have rely solely on my leet skills, lol. I got 2 spells, 2 traps, Blade Knight and Mobius when playing Gilfer, (Gilfer = very good), so I had to set all 4 s/t just to get Blade Knight up there enough to stand a chance, lol (yes, I know it was a bad idea). Let's just say, he won that match...

Well I think of it like this now:

Luck - 40%
Skill - 35%
Cards - 25%

This topic was made in September, so my views have changed since I've played more. The topic was also meant to be directed towards the current ban list.

why do you seperate skills and cards?

when you create your deck, thats half the journy. then using the hand you draw to deplete the opponents resources as quickly as you can is the other half. its all the same realm of skill really.

Yeah. Luck is trivial when you have a good deck.

I think the deck you build is in the same category with skill. :blink:

lol im a believer in skill and luck, and im pretty sure i no the difference, like ronin said skill and cards (deck) should go togther, and also like ronin said i think that you will win more times than lose even if you have bad luck, its all in the skill, luck just contributes to win's such as regionals, shonen, nats, ect...

luck: 20%
skill: 80%

:afro

okay i think i figured it out cause any one who has won any big tourney just gets lucky there is almost no skill invloved like roinin gertting 5th instead of first or second he is skilled so that is why he didnt get any higher not lucky probably when it comes down to tourney then 90% luck over 10% skill and causual is about 50 50

i DID lose because of luck in the top 8. (read what actually happened, lol. i wanted to kick the guy). but look at it this way i DID win 7 in a row. and a couple of those ended up in luck. in the end, it should all average out.

I seperate skills and cards because if you don't have the cards you need, you may not win.

Say you are awesome at deck building and you build your friends decks all the time but using their cards. If you don't have the resources at your disposal, it is hard to make a competitive deck. If you don't have all the staple S/T cards, then you can hardly win. I do agree that you can, thus the seperation.

Skill involves how well you can use what you have. You may have all the skill in the world but if your deck build isn't good enough with the cards you have, you can't win.

So:

Cards - must have staples (and Cyber Dragon most of the time); if not, harder to win
Skill - knowing HOW to use the cards you have; if you have 3 Cyber Dragon but don't know how to use them to their full potential in a duel, it makes it harder to win

I do agree that they may be put in the same "realm" but I don't see it that way.

there are tons of cheap cards to make good decks. not having money is a poor excuse for not being able to make a deck. i have a deck i made for under 5 dollars that ive won tournaments with. lol.

yeah my cookie cutter deeck is all lowest rarity possible and i made it for little under 100 and that was just for starter dedck stuff and cyber plus widespreads there easy to get just find people who will trade them go to tourneys i mean i got 6 cybers today for under 50 dollars come on

i'm pretty sure everybody knows that its 99.9% luck and .1% skill.

In todays meta i think it is more about skill and deck build than luck. Yeah back in the days of chaos and trinity it was mainly based on luck. I think what cards you have is skill not luck as it took your judgement and skill to build the deck and have the card there in the first place

thats not even true. even back THEN it wasnt that much luck. i beat godhands ALL the time every tournament i went to. thats skill>luck. if you whine about luck, and your opponent ALWAYS having the right cards, its because...

A. your opponents deck is better than yours. duh, hes gonna draw better, because his cards have more OPTIONS.
B. he has card advantage. duh. youve got a DD assilant, he has 5 cards... he SHOULD have DD survivor. if he doesnt, then YOU are lucky.
C. you arent playing right. you arent taking time to think about what your opponent will probably have in his hand. therefore, you are playing right into it.

A+B+C= whiny newb. lol. im sorry, but thats just the throwdown in real life.
luck can decide a duel, MAYBE a single match. 99% of those matches? time to admit that you are losing because those people are better than you.
SO GET BETTER

skill 60%
luck 40%

the skill is going to statistically balance out.
you get lucky half the time
your opponents get lucky half the time

think about it...

99% skill
1% luck

luck is a figment of our imagination. what is it? strange occurances in probability. think about it.

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I really think that luck is still a big factor. If our decks are 4 cards different, you may say the better player will win, but I don't care how good you are, luck may and probably will win the duel.

Say if your deck has a ratio of 20-14-6. The statistics show that for every monster, you should get a S/T card. I have played with that ratio and got a hand of 4-5 monsters. Why? You may say that it was the way I shuffled which may be true, but luck played a factor in that hand.

Your response?

that opening hand doesnt matter much in the long run. because the probability of you drawing a spell/trap next turn raises. if it costs you the game, then you have to realize that your opponent deals with those SAME problems from time to time.

again. luck doesnt exist. its a manmade idea that is meant to explain why sometimes there is a strange occurance in probabilities. it isnt going to cloud over a single person.

"aw man. my oppenents kept getting lucky getting mystic swordsman LV2 every opening hand!"

this is a great example. if your opponent is runnign 2 reinforcements, there is a REALLY good chance they get access to a LV2 on turn 1. actually... if they dont, you got "lucky." so the answer here is...
A. this player is whining about something that doesnt exist.
B. this plyaer isnt taking the time to realize that they should create their decks to not depend so heavily on something.
C. this player isnt taking into consideration what their opponents probably have.




now- the last format was a better example. because excessive delinquent duo/pot of greed use can pretty much win a game. BUT- the truth is that you godhanded as much as your opponent. if you didnt, then their deck was better than yours.


luck is an excuse for people NOT to stand back and look at their decks and playstyle and improve.
ive lost just as many duels to lucky topdecks, but i know youve won just as many as i have for the same reason.

Okay so if luck doesn't exist, how do you explain opening up an ultimate rare Cyber Dragon?

You open up a new box and buy the very first pack in there and it is a Cyber Dragon. Cyber Dragon comes 1-2 in a box from what I know so your chances are 1 in 12. How did I get the pack with Cyber Dragon if not by luck.

Luck exisists in every card game. There is no way around it. In my opinion if you don't believe there is luck involved in Yugioh, you are in denial. Statistics and stuff do not matter if you just happen to get a bad hand or top deck a Mobius when you have a 1/26 chance of drawing it. Luck exists.

Whether or not we agree on this subject, we are both great Yugioh players. I think a little luck helps me and you think it is pure skill. Either way, we both win.

- i explain opening up an ultimate rare cyber dragon as something that will happen to whoever buys the pack in which the dragon was packed.

someones "luck" doesnt cause the cards inside to change. they bought a prepackaged pack, and got the dragon. "luck" like "time" is man-made to help us express ourselves in daily life.

- and for those "lucky" players. are you saying that they are actually MORE LIKELY TO DRAW BETTER? no... that just doesnt make sense. like... somehow... the laws of mathematics and physics dont apply to them, and they are able to draw better than you every time?

no. their deck is NOT blessed. they get just as "lucky" as you, and vice-versa. differences being...
A. it happens at a more opportune time.
B. they take advantage of it more. (in this case, we can actually accept that they are the better player, and LEARN. that makes us BETTER DUELISTS)
C. they are cheating (it happens. if someone draws just right every time, they might be cheating. learn how to catch them. become a BETTER DUELIST)

accepting that luck is something we just created to express ourselves leads to becoming a better duelist.

ACTUALLY READ THIS IF YOU ARE GOING TO ARGUE^^^^^^^^^

lol.

It is the better player that wins, both players can be "lucky" and top deck anything at anytime but it is the more skilled player that handles their cards better that'll more often win. But like when a person pulls a Cyber Dragon from a pack sometimes a player gets "lucky" and wins despite the situation. "Luck" is as Ronin said, just something used to express a strange occurrence.

In duels, I couldn't estimate how much luck is involved and I won't try to since it's obvious that there's far greater skill involved. As for pack pulls, well normally that's all about luck, there's no skill in pack pulling unless as many do and you weigh them but I never have myself so I can't say for sure if that really works but if it does then that’s more skill than luck even then since obviously it takes skill to weigh them and make a judgment as to what you'll pull but then there is a very small bit of luck in what you'll get from that pack since no amount of skill can determine exactly what you'll pull just like that small bit of luck in playing a duel since any skilled and experienced player can depending on the situation guess what they'll draw next, but when it comes to the actual next draw is where luck comes into it but even if both players get "lucky" and draw what they need it is the more skilled player that will win.

Now, I'm not the smartest or the most articulate, but I hope that all makes sense.

it did. thanks bud.

Well, now it is 2 against one! How unfair! :P

Alexis just said luck is for losers on Yugioh GX too. That is now all of Japan against me as well! :(

I wasn't saying some players just are gifted with luck but you have to admit sometimes it seems weird when they draw the cards they need at the EXACT right time. Don't you?

Luck may be something we made up to explain extraordinary events when playing cards and things. I still say there is luck. I've argued as much as I can. Well.....maybe not. :P

I would like to ask another question to try to prove my point. Do you play poker?

yes, i play texas hold em. and DO NOT use luck in that one, lol. Texas Hold Em requires so little luck, its amazing. you better stick with yugioh on this one bud, cause ive won a LOT of money playing poker. (not as much as yugioh, but... more at once, lol)

but yeah. ive lost to people drawing amazingly well. but- ive won games like that too. therefore, the universe balances itself, and statistics settle upon themselves. if that makes sense, then you can understand that after repetition, luck doesnt matter at all in the game of yugioh. thats why its consistency that defines the power of a duelist.

My theory:
Early game is mainly skill, by setting up the duel with the cards you got.

Mid Game, this is where you can win if you had alot of luck for the early game. This, on average, is a balance of equal shares of Skill and Luck

Late Game. Most of the time, this is all skill. There are times when skill reigns here, but usually luck. Especially after a long and difficult duel\

Anyone agree with my idea.