I remember watching a documentary long time ago that mentioned during the World War II, Turkey sent humanaterian aid to Greece, especially while it was under German occupation. However, the aid stopped when the ship carrying it was sank after a few deliveries. I don't remember the name of the ship, but I remember reading this story on other places as well. A quick search on the internet failed to return anything, so I can't verify this story with a link.

I'm wondering if this story is known in the Greek site as well.

I have found following item on a website:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p-71_Lang.html


....
Knutson claimed that "the present relief work in Greece, initiated by Turkey, and now being carried on by the Swedish and Swiss Red Cross, prove that relief work can be extended to Poland, Norway, Denmark, and the Low Countries, where pestilence, famine, and death walk hand in hand [emphasis added]."

....

The result was more privation and more refugees as the Bulgarians occupied a rich agricultural area, while the Germans used Greece as a supply base for Rommel's army in North Africa.

Nevertheless, the Red Cross was able "to distribute 800,000 bowls of soup" in the winter of 1941, and establish "450 feeding centers for 100,000 children over seven and 130 nursery centers for 74,000 infants." [8] The IRC report estimated that 250,000 Greek deaths were caused by the shortage of food and clothing -- this out of a population of 7,300,000. Most of the deaths, however, occurred in the winter of 1941-42. [9]

According to Junod, much of this aid plan was initially worked out in the neutral Turkish capital of Ankara, in which the German ambassador, Franz von Papen, among others played an important role.


....Resistance came from the Allies, not the Axis. The Allies limited the aid to 15,000 metric tons a month. In fact, Eugene Lyons, in his biography of Herbert Hoover, went so far as to claim,

"In June 1942, the Turkish government insisted on sending in food. The British and American governments regulated this Greek relief, since they could not stop the Turks in any case."

It wouldn't surprise me. Greeks and Turks are actually capable of excellent co-operation, if some core issues are solved permenantly. :friendship: Look at Lesvos and Ayvalik, Xios and Cesme. The relations between the port citys is way beyond the relations of the two g'ments.

Well somebody was trying to take over the world...of course we would help :D

While the german invasion some greeks of the near islands were evacuated to the turkish aegean coast...but they return quite soon.

Interesting. Note the reaction of the British/Americans. How predictable. All they cared was their people. Churchill ordered his commanders that arrived in Athens (after the Germans withdrew in 1944) to treat the city as just any other occupied city not a free one.

And thanks for the help! :D

They are making a documentary on this
:applause:


The credits for the original message and translation go to 1453 and GT Forum.

I'm sure Greece had the worse, but I remember my grandfather was saying at that time, people of the Turkey could not find wheat flour since it was stock piled in case Turkey has to enter the fight. So some people was actually looking at animal dunk for the seeds, clean them and make flour for the bread. I know it seems disgusting but I just want to show how it was like then.

If i am not mistaken turkey during the ww2 was neutral,when the germans faced difficulties with soviets in the eastern front they tried to persuade the turkish to join them agianst the soviets because turkey was also a german-friendly country at that time...Some also say that Turkey tried to take advantage of the occupation of Greece in order to gain Greek territories..

DEA if Turkey wanted "soil" we could have enntered the war a little earlier to occupy the islands which were then occupied by the Italians. Turkey didnt need soil, our then President Inonu tried to avoid another catastrophe which would kill another generation of Turks which would mean disaster. Turkeys neutrality was troublesome both for allies and the axis so they both tried to persuade us to join the war. They offered military assistance and tried to bribe us with various stuff but none worked (thank God).

Here is more information on the documentary related to "Kurtulus". Its premier will be on September 10th.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/kultursanat/505...srid=3048&oid=4

It starts with the following line (I guess from the documentary)

Here is the quote of Greek historian Georgeos Margaritis

Here is Kurtulus



The area she sank apperantly was renamed after her to "Kurtulus Cove".


Here is the newspaper article from Vatan after she returned from one of the deliveries. The headline says
"Kurtulus arrived"
"New news arrived from the hell in the earth"
"Death throwing away its mask, harvesting Greeks without emotion"
"All the country shows the scenes from a funeral. Everybody is attending theirs and their friends funeral alive."


There is also a picture gallery of living conditions but for the respect to the victims, I'm not going to link them here.

Here is a link that adds perspective to the topic at hand:
http://www.ahistoryofgreece.com/worldwarII.htm

I quote:
"The Greek War Relief Association in the USA sends funds and in October of 1941 a Turkish ship the SS Kurtulus makes five voyages, bringing food to Athens where it is distributed by the International Red Cross. It is barely enough to make a dent in the plight of the Greeks and in the winter of 1942 the ship meets a tragic end on the rocks near Marmara".

So in fact Greeks from the USA, rented a ship from the nearest "neutral" country available in the region, in order to help their compatriots.


HAVE FUN !!!

kinmid,

Read first post and see why USA sent the supplies. Also according to last article I post, Kurtulus was not the only ship from Turkey. Read what you historian said about it and its successors.

Then remember that, USA was in the war, so anything to reduce the power of Germany was a good thing. On the other hand, the only reason Turkey was sending the ships was to help its neighbor not to weaken Germany. Anyway, it doesn't matter if you try to downplay its mission. Lets just hope that you have a clear mind to be able to watch the documentary when it becomes available.

I read it very carefully mate...
And so I did to the link quoted in it.
And all I got from it was a desparate attempt from the post author to stretch the context of the specific link, in order to present the Turkish involvement as a gesture of good will, and benovelant helpful hand, when obviously it wasn't anything else but a trading deal with the Greek community in the US, which the US government eventually tried to regulate when failed to stop.
The rest don't really matter since the "juice" of the "gesture" is in what I posted, which is the reality between the lines...
"The Greek War Relief Association in the USA sends funds and in October of 1941 a Turkish ship the SS Kurtulus makes five voyages, bringing food to Athens where it is distributed by the International Red Cross. It is barely enough to make a dent in the plight of the Greeks and in the winter of 1942 the ship meets a tragic end on the rocks near Marmara".
Take note what I posted:
"Greeks from the USA, rented a ship from the nearest "neutral" country available in the region, in order to help their compatriots".
The US governemnt and the IRC just regulated the already paid in advance aid, in order to be delivered and distributed.

So in conclussion...
Thank you very much for your well paid services!!!



HAVE FUN !!!

USA was not in war with Germany till 43 that hitler declared war on the US.

I guess the campaing by the Turkish Croascent and Turkish President Inonu's declaration to help Greece were just for the show then.

Anyway, I found a book: "Famine and death in occupied Greece, 1941-1944" that I'm planning to look at over the next week to see what happened.

Taking out of context a link is one thing...
Single line attempts to manipulate other posts are an other!
Either way you failed.
And don't ask me to to be generous or understanding on my approach to the creation of topics like this one, since I have seen it in many forums and always there is the same lame attempt to overexagurate the real Turkish contribution on the specific "gesture", as if the Turkish government or public was the savior of Greeks during the German occupation.


You said you made a search in the internet to find sources, but only managed to find the link you presented and manipulated in your quotes...

Well here is what I found in just five minutes of searching google:
http://www.ahistoryofgreece.com/worldwarII.htm
http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/i...1256B66005B2634
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/history/oxfamorigins.rtf

And I can also quote (and in context) from your own provided link:
"According to Junod, much of this AID PLAN was initially worked out in the neutral Turkish capital of Ankara, in which the German ambassador, Franz von Papen, among others played an important role.
The IRC's humanitarian breakthrough was DUE to the success of the SWISS RED CROSS and the Swedish Red Cross in gaining the intervention of the SWEDISH government, which conducted the complicated but necessary negotiations with the various belligerent capitals.
Noteworthy, in this connection, is the work of the IRC representative,
Carl Burckhardt, a Swiss, who was the chief IRC negotiator in Berlin and elsewhere".
"On August 29, 1942, in the midst of World War II, humanitarianism triumphed when the Swedish ships Formosa, Carmelia and Eros, chartered by the IRC, docked in Piraeus, the harbor of Athens, with some 16,000 metric tons of Canadian wheat. In the ensuing months 91 other shiploads arrived, 84 from Canada and 7 from Argentina.
Before the IRC role was taken over by UNRRA (United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration) in the spring of 1945, 610,000 tons had been shipped across the Atlantic and an additional 102,100 tons provided for
the IRC. [10] From August 1942 on, then, the famine was being mastered, so that 10 months later Congressman Knutson could cite Greece as a powerful example in his plea for relaxing the Allied "total" blockade elsewhere".
"[10] Ravitaillement, p. 19.
Of the 610,000 tons, 470,000 were wheat and wheat product and 140,000 tons dry milk,canned products, vitamins
and medicines. Of the 102,100 tons, 3,600 came from Sweden, 2,100 from Turkey, 31,000 fr'om the Axis Powers, 4,400 Greek products, 55,000 from the Military Liaison, and 6,000 was left for the Red Cross by the Germans before they departed. Not included in this total is the tonnage of the ship Hallaren which was allowed to operate between Italy and Greece. This ship brought in 55,000 tons of foodstuffs".

As I said:
""The Greek War Relief Association in the USA sends funds and in October of 1941 a Turkish ship the SS Kurtulus makes five voyages, bringing food to Athens where it is distributed by the International Red Cross. It is barely enough to make a dent in the plight of the Greeks and in the winter of 1942 the ship meets a tragic end on the rocks near Marmara".

And conclussion:
"Greeks from the USA, rented a ship from the nearest "neutral" country available in the region, in order to help their compatriots".

Therest you can read on my above comments.
So don't try to make this story into anything else than it was in reality.
Some of us actually know history, and even if a small piece of it elluddes us, we can still make a worth research and learn the actual facts.
Anyway...
We all have brains in our heads, so we can all make our own minds for what this topic was really about, and for what the actual facts are as far as this turkish "gesture" of friendship is conserned.


HAVE FUN !!!

Nobody says Turks saved the Greeks out of Germans' hands. This only shows that the Turks helped Greeks in their hard times just like they helped each other during the earthquakes. What is wrong with you. He was only trying to show you that if wanted relations can get better with gestures like that. That is all.

Maybe the problem is that I don't actually eat "Koutoxorto"...

Anyway...
I understand better than you think actually, so cut the naive patronising.
There is however, something obviously wrong with the creator of this topic and his real intentions, as they appear from the way he posted his material.
And from the way he handled it in the following comments and/or post made.
An if you actually read everything posted here, and still insist on your last comments, then maybe there is a problem with you as well.

"He was only trying to show you that if wanted relations can get better with gestures like that. That is all".

A WELL PAID gesture, which was actually INITIATED and FUNDED by the Greek war relief association in the US.
Till that point no Turk offered a helpful hand, especially a "free of charge one".
Yes off course relations can get better when you get paid in order for them to do so.

Besides my point isn't about the "gesture", but about the lame attempt to present it as a major Turkish humanitarian effort of extremely significant importance in analogy, as well as the fundamental and most important humanitarian assistance made available towards Greece (compared to the overall effort, and actually free of charge), which was actually and mainly initiated by the Turks based on their own "good will".
If the creator of this topic presented the actual Turkish contribution to the overall humanitarian effort, in it's right level and importance, then I would have no problem with it.
But then again, that was not the case, was it?

Go back to the original post of Saladin.
Read the quotes and points he highlights.
Then read (for once in your life maybe?) the provided link by him.
If you can't see my point, then there is no reason to debate this further.


HAVE FUN !!!

very good kinmid.
You arrived here a few days ago and then start making character analysis. If you had read the first post, when I started the topic, you would have recognized that I did not know about the details. I didn't even know details about Kurtulus and ask you guys if you knew about this.

Now, you are posting website links then you are saying that we are just copying and posting where as I told everybody here that I'm going to read a book over this topic. Next to that post, you continue your b.s. saying

I wonder if you had read the posts at all.

I also stand with 'kinmid' on this. Common sense is on his side.

I understand and read everything, and better than you think Saladin...
I also know how to make a descent research before posting a topic, especially when I intent to quote the specific links I provide.
It took me just five minutes to find the things I posted, just to make clear to the rest the fact that you intentionally or mistakenly (although your specific quotes make it hard for me to believe the second) manipulated a specific link, in order to present a specific story on a totally different level that what it really was. If you don't like my assuptions and evidence presented, that's your own problem, but also your undisputed right to any debate on forums like this.
This specific forum is labelled "history", so you should know better and post well researched material and/or views, as well as to expect serious critisism, and/or counter-arguments when you obviously fail to do so.

My links and quotes (of your link actually), are a testimony of my view, as it is of yours as well. Having said that, I leave the rest to the common sense of the people reading this topic.
Other than that...


HAVE FUN !!!

These links also provide more insight on the great famine of 1941-42:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/thidas/Hungarian-...ory/Velics.html ('3. Famine')
http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/h...yle=custo_print
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/history/oxfamorigins.rtf

I'd also add that 9 Oct. 1941 Germany and Turkey concluded a trade agreement worth 200mil marks - around the time SS Kurtuluş is said to have made her first trip to Greece. The SS Kurtuluş story (59yo when sunk) was both, blown out of proportion and told in a very distorted way.

The question remains where did the food supplies come from? Turkey was under famine at the time. All foodstocks were requisitioned by the military in preparation for war. Regardless of who paid for the food even if it was paid for by the Greeks, it came from Turkey, meanining Turks spared food to feed your people in time of famine despite fresh memories of attrocities committed by the Greeks 19 years earlier, only to have their generosity be questioned by ungrateful little twerps like Kinmid, we should've known better to lend a helping hand, we should've let them starve!

@Dirty

I hear about the famine of Turkey commented in this topic, but I also failed to actualy come up with a link or a source about it...
Can you help me and provide a source about it?
So we can actually understand the real magnitude of the specific problem, and maybe comprehend better the "goodwill" gesture of our Turkish neighbours.

Besides that, the whole referrance to the Turkish famine is irrelevant, firstly because it was originated by a specific Turkish government decision to store supplies for possible war, so it had nothing to do with the famine in Greece and the humanitarian effort, since the so called humanitarian aid actually was in a state agreement level with the Turkish government.
So what the Turkish government did to the Turkish population, just isn't something that actually matters to the specific issue at hand.
You can blame your government for the famine taking toll on you people, but it's totally another issue trying to present it as a sacrifice made in order to help the Greeks.

It is also undisputed that humanitarian aid arrived in Greece from Turkey, but we should always keep in mind the real story behind it, not the manipulated overexagurated attempts to inflate it to a sureal level of both importance and achievement by the Turkish side, as some are trying desperately to do here.
My previous posts actually present the real level of both the problem and the assistance, so other than re-peating the "we send aid", which you did, try and stay focused on the real issue...

The whole "gesture" was merely five shipments of aid, made by by a rented rustbucket, and paid in advance to the Turkish government.
It's funny we talk about Turkish "sacrifice", in times of their own need, when we obviously see a small "tree" and fail to witness the entire "forest".

Let me open your mind a bit...
German ambassador and IRC intervention and negotiations.
One rented ship.
Food purchased from Turkish government.
Five trips.
All paid in advance.
Let me make some additional thoughts as well...
In all it's kindness and warm-heartness, the Turkish government managed to come up with only one ship, and that was a rented one.
When the Turkish government finally decided to actually help, they did after the rest of the world also entered the game, and we can read in the quotes I provided (from the link Saladin posted), what was the actual proportion of the "true" humanitarian aid provided by Turkey.

So in fact and conclussion...
NO free of charge humble gesture,
NO free of charge goodwill,
NO additional aid other than that paid for,
and in absence of those three factors, then by any DEFINITION,
NO humanitarian gesture from the Turkish side at all.
It was merely a trade agreement between IRC/US-Greeks and the Turkish government.
As I said before, we are greatfull for your help, it was the initial step towards a more organised humanitarian aid, but it was also a very small part of the overall international effort, and a well paid one!


HAVE FUN !!!

Kinmid

Nice try, however even though I am not disputing some of the aid and the shipment might have been paid through Greek American interests, it is a fact that ordinary Turkish citizens also donated to the cause.

Turkey during this time was under severe shortage of staple goods due to the global war which was compunded by the fact that all believed that Turkey's entry into the war was inevitable. The military rightfully so increased their strategic stock, when you're faced with war there is no choice. It still doesnt change the fact that Turkey and the Turkish people spared what they could and despite your attempts to belittle this fact it is something for them to be proud of regardless of whether you approve or not.

http://www.sskurtulus.com/index-eng.htm

THE STORY OF "THE STEAMER THAT CARRIED PEACE

In October 1940, following the attack of the Italian Army, Greece found itself in the middle of WWII. Greeks could resist the brutal forces of Mussolini, supported by the Germans, for six months only. On April 27, 1941 Greece conceded defeat.The Nazis started their occupation of Greece by confiscating all food supplies, where food supply was short of meeting the demand even in times of peace. Storehouses, diary farms and cottages were rapidly plundered to supply the rations of the German army advancing in Europe. This time spring in Greece was a harbinger of misery and scarcity, not of happy summer
days.Within few months people started dying from hunger. Left in want of a bite to eat, the Greek people were in desperation. In the streets of Athens trucks were carrying the dead to mass graves. These days of horror would last long and in the course of the war Greece would lose 570.000, or seven per cent of its population, to hunger. There was scarcity in Turkey as well. The majority of the agricultural work force was drafted when the war broke and food supplies were reserved to feed the army in case Turkey entered the war. Nevertheless, Turkish
peple were carefully following the news concerning the hunger in the neighbouring country and were eager to do something to help.Eventually Ismet Inonu, the Turkish President, signed a decison to help the people whose army was thrown out of the country 19 years ago. Turkey was to be the first country to lend a helping hand to Greece; food and medicine was to be collected and sent through a nationwide campaign. Everybody who could would bring whatever they could afford to collection centers and
packages of foodstuffs were sent to the port of Istanbul. The humanitarian aid to the other side of the Aegean Sea was to be sent from here.To carry the aid to Greece, the government hired a 2400-ton dry cargo vessel built in 1882 from Tavilzade Co.. The ship bore the same name given to the recent war with Greece: "Liberation"."Liberation" was prepared for her voyage with Red Crescent amblems painted on all sides. She left the Karakoy pier on October 6, 1941, loaded with 2000 tons of food supplies and thousands wished her a safe
journey with tears in their eyes.
When the steamer entered the port of Piraeus it was greeted with shouts of joy in Turkish and Greek. Every package of food and medicine unloaded under the hard-looking gaze of German soldiers was foretelling
the "Liberation" of the people from famine.

In the following months "Liberation" made 4 more trips, bringing a total of 8000 tons of humanitarian aid to the Greek people. Until that day...On the night of February 20, 1942, having sailed off from Istanbul two days ago with 2000 of food supplies, the steamer "Liberation" was cought in a violent storm off the Marmara Island. The heavy snowstorm and high waves were trashing the steamer about like a nut shell and it was as if the old body of the ship was screaming. The crew left the ship in tears when it hit the rocks after four hours of inhuman effort. When the first lights of the morning sun touched the sea from behind the storm clouds "Liberation" sunk in the cold waters of the Marmara Sea, along with the hopes of thousands of Greeks awaiting her.The thirty four-member crew of the unfortunate steamer sought refuge in the Marmara Island and so survived. After hours of walking they reached the village of Pulatya and were later brought to Istanbul.With the sinking of "Liberation" the humanitarian aid to Greece suffered delay for about 6 months. However, Turkey maintained her determination to help and so the aid continued until 1946 using other ships: "Dumlup?nar", "Tunc", "Konya", "Guneysu" and "Aksu". Today, sixty two years after she sunk, the steamer "Liberation" lies somewhere off the Marmara Island.


WHAT WILL THE DOCUMENTARY "THE STEAMER THAT CARRIED PEACE" BE TELLING

"The Steamer That Carried Peace" aims to contribute to strengthening peaceful relations between Turkey and Greece through the tragic story of the long-forgotten steamer

In the documentary, interviews with historians, survivors of the ship, witnesses, organizators of the campaign and Greeks who benefitted from the aid from Turkey will provide answers to the following questions:

What was the situation in Greece and Turkey during the Second World War?

How was the aid campaign to Greece organized?

What kind of a ship was "Liberation"

What did the crew of the ship witness?

Did Greeks who benefitted from the aid sent from Turkey remember what they suffered?

How did "Liberation" sink?

What is the condition of the ship at the bottom of the sea?

The documentary "The Steamer That Carried Peace" will be prepared using a series of interviews conducted in Istanbul, Athens and the Marmara Island,
as well as footage taken on the sea and under water.

The ship, whose location was approximately known but not pictured so far, will be shown for the first time in the documentary The Steamer That Carried Peace".

@Dirty

About what?
Getting all the facts up front for everyone to really know what happened, or putting the story on it's real dimension?
Is this the new way of trying to demote someone arguments and/or facts, when obviously out of manipulated material to support your own?
Do you actually remember what my point is in this thread?

What is to dispute mate?
Four shipments from a rented ship, 4=4?
It sunk on the fifth trip if I understand correctly?
7500tons of aid all paid in advance, 7500=7500?
Was it all delivered, or does it include the quantity in the trip that sunk?
Then after, the available info from Saladin's link I quoted, said 2100tons alone from the entire quantity distributed b the IRC.
So 7500tons we know where paid from Greeks?
2100tons we don't know if were paid and by whom.
Total 7500 tons we know as the REAL FACT in this "genuine" Turkish humanitarian "gesture".
And I especially admire the "might have been paid" comment on something that IS actually a FACT, in the links and arguments presented.

Off course some Turkish citizens donated as well.
How many where of Greek origin, I also wonder?
But then again... 7500tons total FACT.
As I said before, don't deliberately miss my point in order to appear as objective. The point isn't the aid itself, that's undisputed as I said, but the manipulation of it's real magnitude and importance.
My case in that matter, is rock solid, and I still don't see anything to prove otherwise.

So let's see the magnitude of the pre-paid "gesture" in pure innocent mathematics, shall we?
7500tons=7500000kgrs
What was the total Turkish population at that time, I wonder???
Shall we say 15mil (I am deliberately pulling your leg in this one)?
15000000/7500000=2.
So "fact" IS 1Kgr of aid for every 2 Turks in this case?
Or 500grs of aid for every Turk?
That's really something isn't it?

Yes, you already told us that, and we understood it.
As I said before, that's totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.
You can blame your own government for that.
Don't try to make it as a willingfull sacrifice of the Turkish people in order to feed Greeks.
And I still wait for some help in my quest for actual information about the Turkish "famine", which many mentioned in this topic.

What "FACT"?
That the Turkish nation made an ultimate sacrifice, out of it's own good heart, in order to feed another nation in need, even though that it suffered as well?
I still don't see any evidence of that fact, besides your personal comments on it. All I see is a well paid in advance trade agreement between Greeks in the US and the Turkish government, initiated and organized by the IRC and some others.
How the Turkish government presented that FACT, to the naive (and maybe famine struck) Turkish public back then, doesn't change the truth.
It didn't change the truth back then, and will certainly not do that today, no matter how many documentaries, or manipulated links, and/or forum threads some people initiate to try and convince us otherwise.
I don't have to approve anything in a forum labelled "HISTORY", when there is no actual historical evidence or proof provided to support a specific approach to a historical event.
Other than the manipulated and out of context ones already presented...

Really nice. Good job!
Back to the beginning, but no real argument to the issue at hand.
Just lame propaganda on the levels of this thread, trying to overexagurate the REAL "facts", and make the whole trade agreement appear as a pure warm-hearted gesture of the Turkish people, and a sacrifice during their own ordeal. However, REAL "facts" remain.
And common logic can tell the difference, when presented with them.

Actually that specific "determination" was also paid, and those ships where also rented.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/i...1256B66005B2634

I quote:
"With the help of the Swedish government (which supplied the means of transportation) and the Canadian authorities (who provided the goods), ships made 94 trips from Canada to Greece, bringing 17,000 tonnes of food there each month between September 1942 and March 1944. From April to November 1944, the monthly deliveries rose to 29,000 tonnes".

Compared to the pre-paid 7500tons and the time-span being delivered by Kurtulus, I guess we have lots to be thankfull to others as well, and who actually offered their aid for free.

I quote:
"With the agreement of the belligerents and Turkey, the ICRC undertook to bring relief to the archipelago in small boats which it hired in Izmir. Four operations took place between February and May 1945, and a total of 2,700 tonnes of food, clothing and medicines, supplied by the British government and Greek settlers abroad, were delivered to these islands and distributed among the population".

Yes...
As I said, pre-paying for goods you need, actually contributes to having good relations with the store owner.

Samewise the 94 shipments from Canada and Argentina helped our relations with them. So why all the fuzz for one ship five trips 7500tons, all pre-paid and initiate by Greeks, when we have 94 shipments actually "free of any charge" with 640000tons of aid.


----


And it's really interesting how the only actual referrance to the specific "view" of the specific "gesture", is only on sites of Turkish origin and of Turkish interest, all dealing with the "Kurtulus" story.
Seems to me the only ones that know the TRUTH, and the FACTS about it, are the TURKS posting this material whenever they get the chance.
Get YOUR "facts" straight for a change and do some actual research, instead of quoting Turkish sites propagating the same old news.



HAVE FUN !!!