In view of the repeated failures to sell this aircraft to the export market, will this make a difference or will the Greek gouvernment look only at the specs and prices???

Thanks in advance for your participation to the debate.

No chance mon frère...and not only for political reasons.

But maybe if your gouvernment makes us an offer for 60xRafale with new engines(the HAF wants most of all an air superiority fighter with best possible supercruise and supersonic agility),AESA,OSF-NT,HMD etc,etc for maybe 4,5bn euros??..

..plus some 10-20 M2000(including upgrades to the -5/mk2 standard) and tons of Sclaps and ASSMs for free??

You´re in?

:unsure:

:lol:

Is that so???

I think you'll be desapointed if you though Rafale didn't meet the requierements without actually loosing anything to its "Omnirole" capabilties.

Recall:

1) Comes 20112 it is the only one (with Gripen) which is scheduled to be fited with an AESA radar, which BTW is funded, developed and planed for the French A-A and Navy.

2) I dont know where you figured that Rafale wasn't an "Air Superiority fighter "appart on Eurofighter commercials and some British forums.

From where we're concerned, even the programme manager specifies clearly that the aerodynamic configuration is OPTIMISED for Air combat between M 1.6 and M 1.8.

AND where exactly does you think Typhoon will find MORE Gs than the 9.0 it is actually limited to to out-turn a Rafale in supersonic please???

Long Moment harm? Higher level of instability?

Well mate all of these are LEGEND, Typhoon level of instability is just equal to that of F-16 at 8% and in supersonic long moment harm doesn't actually INCREASE the whole thing instability, the hysterisis effect provided by the close-coupled canards DOES.

= IN REALITY, Typhoon might well be more stable than Rafale and Gripen passed M 1.0.

(BTW 90% of the modern engagements takes place between M 0.90 and M 1.6)....

Supercruise? Well actually it does it with a 1.250l attached to it on top of its complement of MICAs at M 1.2 and M 1.3 with 4 underwing and 2 wingtips.

(Wingtips are part of the "Clean configuration due to their negligible drag).

Find me an Eurofighter brochure claiming better supercruise perfs for a laugh,
being better in A2G doesn't mean it is not as good (if not better) in A2A, just that a close-coupled canard allows for a better playload and this is a proven thing too..

There is MORE to it:



Rafale IR and EM signatures are also WAY lower, estimated RCS 50% lower, Typhoon shows an IR signature so much superior that it is even visible to the naked eyes, it lights up the sky in the IR spectrum like nothing else but Ariane V.


FACT:

M-88 posseses TWO different channels, one being cooling for the engine casts and internal BAY (Avionics while on the ground and engines).


In this testshot from OMERA you can visibly SEE the difference, the con-dis are not hoter than what the rest of the airframe would be, which is far from being the case of the EJ-200 and their lower casing.

Considering the fact that Typhoon is supposed ot climb fast and attack from above, tell me is there NOT a contradiction in terms operationally when the word "superiority" is used?

This M-88 IR supressant feature includes TWO sets of con-di nozzles, one being actually shielding the other at up to an angle of <> 45* on the rear sector and also provides with the lowest IR signature (exhaust like structural) there is in the western fighters inventory today (perhaps wit hthe F-22).

If these are not features optimised for A2A i wonder what exactly IS.

Your Air force specialists are perhaps enough informed all considered and they probabilly will KNOW which one is the most likely to bring air superiority to them comes the crunch hour.

So from where i'm coming from it got to depend on totally different requierements than the one you quoted.

@Stardust

German pilots claim that they already fly 1,5 mach supercruise with four AIM-120,two Iris-T and a 1000L centre tank.
And they say that 1,6 mach will be possible without any problem with the tranche 2 standard..
RAF pilots told greek defence media that the EF2000 has the "same supercruise ability as the F-22"..well,I hope that the HAF will have the chance to test these claims very soon.

As for the rest...don´t know since I am no air force pro.
But I will belive those guys who are...

IF Greece got a super deal on the Rafale, it could happen. But it'd have to be a sweet deal with lots of extras, not to mention co-manufacturing rights.

I think a fly-off would be the ideal way to settle this discussion. If the French are up to that, Greece could approach it with an open mind.