Greek WW2 Weapons.

This was the primary Greek infantry weapon of WW2-the Mannlicher Schonaeur 6.5 mm rifle. Greece was the only nation involved in the Second World War that used this rifle as standard issue. Actually, this is a carbine version of the rifle. The standard rifle had a longer barrel.

Greece bought about 200,000 of these from Italy, of all places, in the decades prior to WW2. Austria was forbidden to manufacture military arms after WW1 so Italian firms bought the license to manufacture Mannlicher designs. Actually, it is widely believed that Mannlicher manufactured the bolt mechanism and supplied it to the Carcano firm in Italy, who made the rest of the rifle and sold them to Greece-thus skirting the provision for no Austrian manufacture.

It was a fine weapon that used a unique rotary magazine rather than a spring fed linear magazine like most bolt action weapons of WW2. This made the action extremely easy to work. It was in all regards a fine weapon.

The only thing working against it is the cartridge-the Mannlicher 6.5 mm like the Italian Carcano 6.5 mm was generally too low in power for the mountain fighting that both sides were engaged in. It did the job, but a higher powered cartridge like the British .303, Russian 7.62 mm, American 30-06 or German 7.92 would have been a better choice. The Greeks manufactured most of their ammunition at state run munitions industries.

All things considered, the Greeks were proud of their standard issue infantry rifle and justifiably so. It was a fine weapon. However, shortage of this rifle forced Greeks to make do with leftover, captured Mausers of various pedigrees from the Balkan Wars.

A smiling Greek soldier holds his Mannlicher rifle in a non-Standard of Arms pose. This is the longer barreled rifle version of the MS. Note that the helmet this soldier is carrying is the standard British design, rather than the standard issue Greek helmet. Greeks augmented their supplies with British kit when the latter joined them in defence of the mainland. The Greek military never had enough equipment for their troops.

The Mannlicher-Schonaeur 6.5 mm cartridge is pictured 2nd from left. Compare that with the 30-06 pictured 2nd from right. Still, the MS 6.5 was a good, but not great cartridge as a man-stopper. The long bullet tended to tumble when it hit causing significant damage. Whereas the 30-06 and other higher muzzle velocity cartridges tended to punch right through.

The MS 6.5 was widely used in Africa during the 1930's as a medium game cartridge-used against lions and gazelles, for instance. It had good ballistic characteristics that were well refined. It was probably the best 6.5 mm cartridge in the war (the Italians and Japanese also used a 6.5 mm cartridge).

Greek forces confronting the Italians and Germans were poorly supplied with automatic weapons. Mostly they used ex-French Army models of WW1 vintage. But, to make matters worse the French sold the Greeks only the inferior models and never their best types.

For instance the French sold the Chauchat and Hotchkiss-Benet Light Machine Guns (pictured below) to the Greeks. Neither model was a success in WW1 and the French were dumping them on their colonies and nations who were desperate for automatic arms.

The Chauchat was an inferior model developed for the French Army just prior to WW1. It was prone to stoppages from damaged magazines (it also tended to overhead and stop after firing 10 magazines or so-at which point it would need to be put off to one side and allowed to cool down before it could be reused) and other reasons. The French also had issues with inferior materials being used in it's construction by profit-focussed manufacturers. They were probably glad to sell about 4000 of them to the unsuspecting Greeks following the Great War.

The Hotchkiss-Benet was a better weapon, but really too heavy for the role of a LMG. It also used a strip feed of 30 rounds, which was less desirable than belt feed. The brass strips were subject to damage and jams. The Greeks used several thousand of these as well, presumably modified to their standard MS 6.5 mm caliber.

The last LMG used by the Greeks in any real numbers was a Czech design procured just prior to hostilities. It was a very good design which resembled the British Bren gun (the Bren was modeled after it). This was the best LMG issued by the Greek Army, but unfortunately there weren't many of them. Probably 500-1000 at the maximum.

All in all, the Greek infantry had to fight superior forces using unsatisfactory automatic weapons. But it was all they had so they made the best of it.

HOTCHKISS-BENET



CHAUCHAT



CZECH VZ-26a

Greek Army had purchased a lot of St. Etienne Heavy Machine Guns (HMG) from the French after WW1. It was not an especially good design, the French themselves far preferred the Hotchkiss over it.

The mechanism was complicated and not suited to the dirty conditions in the trenches. It used gas bled off from the muzzle to drive a spring-piston mechanism for extracting the spent cartridge and loading the next one. Good in theory, but not robust to dirt and dust. Still, it served the Greeks well in defense of their forts in the Metaxas line.

The HMG used a strip feed of 30 rounds, but many were supposedly upgraded to belt feed by clever Greek gunsmiths prior to the war. This weapon could be easily deployed as an anti-aircraft weapon and it had a flexible stand for doing so. This weapon was maintained in the French 8 mm Lebel caliber which, while it created logistical issues, gave the Greeks a higher powered cartridge which also made it a better AA weapon.

Here the Greek infantry uses it in the Dinardic Alps to attack Italian troops. Note that the Greek soldier on the right is employing a French Berthier bolt action rifle of WW1 vintage rather than a Mannlicher-Schonaeur, the standard Greek issue.

Excellent pics and info

Thanks Angelo. I like WW2 history and my relatives all fought with the Greek Army, so this is special to me.

This is another HMG that the Greek Army used in substantial numbers. It's the Schwarzlose HMG of Austrian origin. The Greeks acquired a lot of them as war reperations after WW1 (Greece didn't fight in WW1, but they provided port facilities and bases to the allies).

It used the same 6.5 mm cartridge that the standard Greek rifle used. It was belt fed, water cooled and used a unique short stroke action that was unlike the American Browing, French Hotchkiss or assorted Maxim variations used by other nations in the Great War. It was a good weapon, but too heavy by WW2 standards. Still, it provide good fixed defense in the Metaxas Line of forts.

This Czech VZ37 HMG was the best infantry automatic weapons used by Greek forces in WW2. Small numbers were acquired by the Greek Army just prior to the war, in an effort to upgrade their weapons. It was belt fed (metal link belt), air cooled and relatively light. It was an excellent weapon, one of the best HMG's of WW2.

The gun was normally of 7.92 Mauser caliber, but it's not known if the Greeks had them rechambered for 6.5 mm MS or not. The Mauser cartridge would have been better for performance sake, but created additional logistic problems.

Greeks used these HMG's as infantry support, not in fort defense. Unfortunately, they had not enough of them.

Russian Tokarev pistol. Many of these were used by Greek troops, although they were not standard issue. Similar mechanism to the 1911 Colt, they used a 7.6 mm Russian cartridge.

Spanish Ruby Pistol, which was standard issue for Greek senior officers. It fired a .32 cartridge and was underpowered-similar to the small Baretta carried by Italian senior officers.

The Russian Nagant revolver was also widely used by Greek troops. It had been Greek military issue since the Balkan Wars. Though outmoded by the time of WW2, it gave good service particularly among the Partisans.

The Greek Army did not use a lot of sub-machine guns. They didn't lend themselves to the type of conflict in the mountains and mostly at long range. Still, a few SMG's were used during Fortress defense, when repelling infantry attacks. Two of the most used SMG's where the 1928 Thompson (here shown with a rare 100 round drum magazine. Most drum magazines were 50 round) and the Russian PPD 40. The Russian gun was used both with drum magazine and a curved 32 round magazine. Both used the standard Russian 7.62 cartridge which was also employed in their Tokarev pistol.

my grandfather was a reserve officer in WW2 years in the Turkish Armed Forces and we still hide his Nagant which is exactly same as the one shown among the pictures.

The Nagant was widely used by many army's in the Balkans, Baris.

This shows two hand grenades used by the Greeks. The Hellenic Army preferred to use "defensive" hand grenades, since their philosophy was to defend the homeland. Defensive hand grenades employ a lot of shrapnel to wound attacking enemy troops. Offensive hand grenades are like the German stick grenade-which used explosive force but not much shrapnel to stun defending troops.

The Greeks used mostly French design grenades. The two shown here are a more modern design which was developed by a French manufacturer in the 1930's. It had a more dependable and consistent fuse and a cast iron case. Also shown is a late WW1 grenade with stamped steel case. Both were used by Greek troops.

The rifle version of the MS 6.5. It had a 725 mm long barrel and was really too long for WW2 use. Most of the Greek Army rifles with this length barrel were leftovers from the Balkan wars and WW1 era. After 1930 Greece procured about 130,000 MS 6.5 firearms, mostly from Breda (who were making this weapons instead of Austrian Mannlicher company due to Lausanne restrictions). All of them were the shorter carbine shown in an earlier picture in this thread.

The worst part is that Landos, he also had a Walter but he gave it back to the Army although he had right to keep it. I would prefer to keep Walter instead of the Nagant. But, who knows what went through his head at those days.

What type of Walther did he have, Baris?

Landos, it was a PPK not a P38 unfortunately but a good gun anyway.
For more information;


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_PP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Walther_PPK.jpg

PPK is a good gun. It's the weapon that James Bond used in all the Ian Fleming books. Small caliber, but effective at close range.

Yeap, that is the gun. It is definately a good gun, no doubt. But, the P38 was the legend. That is why I wrote "unfortunately" :)

One thing I am struck by is how Greek troops in WW2 fought with basically WW1 era surplus weapons. Many of their automatic weapons were ex WW1 French Army surplus and then not even their best stuff. The St. Etienne, Chauchat and the Light Hotchkiss were not considered successful designs by the French during World War 1 and they tried to pawn them off on American doughboys! Instead, they sold them to the Greeks after WW1.

Greek heavy artillery was a hodgepodge of various calibers, most picked up as ex First World War stock. Although the Schneider Mountain small Howitzer (had a Greek designer) was a good gun but in limited quantity.

Despite inferior weapons, the Greeks used the weather and terrain to their advantage against the Italians. It worked there, but was nullified by the mobility of the Wehrmacht.

65 mm Schneider M 1906 Mountain Howitzer used by Greece in WW2.

Schneider-Danglis 75 mm Mountain Howitzer that could be broken down for transportation (barrel could be removed from breech mechanism). Danglis was a Greek Army officer who designed this gun and submitted the design to the French Schneider firm. This was the best small howitzer the Greeks used in WW2.

Greek Army had purchased a lot of these 155 mm French Howitzers as WW1 surplus. A capable design, altough heavy by WW2 standards. It was not as transportable as the mountain guns, but still gave good service against the Italians in particular.

Greek mountain howitzer unit firing on the Italians.

@Landos

Where did you get the info about the Tokarev pistol the PPD40 and the Thomson?
I never heard we got them before the war. (I Know we got Thomson after the war)

I read it somewhere. Sub-machine guns were not widely used by the Greek Army, but they did possess both the Thompson and the PPD40 in small numbers. Used them in fort defense, mostly.

The Tokarev was not standard Greek issue, but it was widely used by infantry officers in place of the standard revolver-usually the Nagant. The 'Russian connection' which supplied the Nagant as well as the PPD40 no doubt was responsible for the Tokarev purchases.

Senior Greek officers were supplied with Spanish Ruby pistols as standard issue. But this was a low caliber pistol, more for show than effective use in warfare.

Picture shows a Greek infantrymen fighting along the Metaxas line employing a Thompson M 1928. Such weapons were used for close in skirmishes with German troops.

Here's an interesting picture. It purportedly shows a Greek designed LMG which fired a 7.92 x 36 mm round. This would have made it one of the first assault weapons! The gun was designed by the Greek company Pyrkal (they also were the national manufacturer of Greek military ammunition) and it is reported that 10-15 of these weapons were made prior to the start of hostilities. Unfortunately, the gun was never developed past the prototype stage.

Anyone have any more details on it?