Title: Turkey thinking about "invading" N. Iraq
Thermopyles - January 30, 2007 08:11 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
Turkey mulls 'invading' Iraq By Jonathan Gorvett in Istanbul Turkey considers the PKK a terrorist group and continues to fight it in the southeast [EPA] Turkey's parliament went into secret session this week to debate sending troops to invade and occupy northern Iraq for security purposes. More than 30,000 people have been killed in the confrontation between the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK) and the Turkish army – about 400 last year alone, according to Turkey's Human Rights Association. Onur Oymen, the deputy chairman of the Opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP), said: "Northern Iraq is the only place in the world where a terrorist group can operate without being pursued." "If the Iraqis and the US are not prepared to take action over this, then we must." Oymen referred to bases in northern Iraq belonging to the PKK which has been fighting Turkish troops since the 1980s to try to establish a separate Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey. Northern Iraq has been effectively independent of Baghdad's control since the early 1990s. Casualties mounting The PKK have bases around Kandili mountain in northern Iraq, and despite requests from Turkey for Iraqi and US occupation forces to attack these bases, Turkey says nothing has been done. "The US are doing nothing and the Kurdish authorities are doing nothing," Oymen said. "But we have the right to secure our borders – and if they act against an intervention by Turkish troops, then we must take the necessary action in response." US officials deny that they have been inactive. On January 17, US and Iraqi Kurdish troops moved in on the Mahmur refugee camp in northern Iraq, which Turkey had long claimed was a PKK training and recruiting camp. However, the troops said they did not find any weapons or explosives. At the same time, Nicholas Burns, the US under-secretary of state for political affairs, said that the US was "trying to find what can be done to stop PKK attacks on the Turkish military" without the need for any further "resort to the use of force". Kirkuk Ankara also has concerns over the Iraqi city of Kirkuk, which will hold a referendum on its future status this year. The oil-rich city has a Turkomen and Arab population that Ankara says is being sidelined by Kurds in a rush to take control. A recent conference held in the Turkish capital to discuss the status of Kirkuk drew criticism from Kurdish leaders, who saw it as interference in Iraqi internal affairs. Erdogan said Turkey has every right to discuss Kirkuk [EPA] This prompted Recip Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish prime minister, to hit back, saying that Turkey had every right to discuss the city and could not "remain indifferent to the plight of the Turkomens and Arabs … in Kirkuk". But Massoud Barzani, leader of one of two main Iraqi Kurdish factions, the Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP), said last week: "These threats are worthless. We are not afraid of Turkey." Border trade booms Tough talk between Ankara and the Kurds in northern Iraq has done little to halt the flow of goods over the border. Zeki Fattah, a senior economic adviser to the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) in Erbil, the northern Iraqi capital, said: "If you want to see what’s really going on, go down to the border. "At the border you’ll see a queue of trucks, stretching for over 20km, bringing with them all manner of goods from Turkey." Since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, business between these two former warring neighbours has mushroomed. About 70 per cent of all government and private sector contracts issued in the KRG area have been to Turkish firms, according to the KRG’s Kurdistan Development Corporation (KDC). Mia Early, the KDC's head of investment promotion said: "At the end of 2006, the Erbil Chamber of Commerce had 385 active international companies registered. The Kurdistan Region in Iraq – as the KRG calls the three, predominantly Kurdish northern Iraqi governorates under its jurisdiction – relies a great deal on this trade with Turkey. "There are four to five million people here in the region," Fattah said. "We do maybe $2bn to $3bn of trade with Turkey every year – it's our main partner. "The only discussion is over sending troops [to Iraq] on a limited cross-border operation against the PKK" Cengiz Candar, Referans "The relationship is also becoming more cultural and organic too. We're now even trying to do a deal whereby Kurdish football teams will match up with Turkish ones." Energy ties Energy is also a big area of investment between the two neighbours. The Kirkuk region holds about 10 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. Joost Hiltermann, the International Crisis Group's deputy programme director for the Middle East and North Africa said: "Being landlocked, the Kurdish region is very dependent on Turkey to transport this oil … Turkey also realises this." The relationship may run two ways as well. "As Turkey moves towards European Union membership, it will become a major energy conduit for the European countries," Fattah said. "To help them in this, we want to become their back yard for oil and gas. We're looking to build refineries along the border and use our energy revenues to boost Turkey's prospects too. "Under the future distribution of funds from Iraqi oil and gas, the Kurdish region will get an enormous increase in income, providing a major market for Turkey as well." Tough election talk "This year is a double election year in Turkey," Hiltermann said. "In April-May, there will be presidential elections and in October - November, parliamentary. Combine these with the upcoming referendum over the future of Kirkuk and there are some difficult consequences." "Where is sending an army going to get anyone, especially in this region? The Americans tried that, and look where it got them" Zeki Fattah, KRG economic advisor Cengiz Candar, a Middle East expert and columnist for the Turkish daily Referans, agrees. "The upcoming elections have given a big push for nationalist and populist rhetoric here," he said. "No one is seriously thinking of sending troops to Kirkuk. The only discussion is over sending troops on a limited cross border operation against the PKK." However, in the complex politics of the region, even that may not prove necessary. "Being secret, the parliamentary session already dramatises the issue," Candar said. "It sends a signal of disquiet to the US and the Iraqi Kurds. "This secrecy is its own drama of deterrence, which is why I don't think it’s realistic to expect anything from the debate itself." Meanwhile, convoys of lorries moving across Turkey's southern border are carrying washing machines and TV sets, rather than soldiers. "These people who talk about sending in the tanks just don't see the big picture," Fattah said. "Where is sending an army going to get anyone, especially in this region? The Americans tried that, and look where it got them." |
KOKORO - February 1, 2007 08:42 AM (GMT)
we started a big millitary winter exercises near iran and iraq border.
if usa leaves out of iraq some how we wont be speaking of kurdish people any more in iraq.
1993 we save them from saddam this time . we will watch .
if usa leaves out of iraq some how we wont be speaking of kurdish people any more in iraq.
1993 we save them from saddam this time . we will watch .
FANTASMA - February 1, 2007 02:01 PM (GMT)
What do you mean by saying we wont speak anymore about kurdish people in northern Iraq?
D.E.A - February 2, 2007 01:14 AM (GMT)
Kokoro obviously tells us that Turkey saved the kurdish during the kurdish massacre in the 90's...Another most unfortunate statement dear kokoro.....
Thermopyles - February 2, 2007 03:44 AM (GMT)
Kokoro, do you mean that the Iraqis will again go to "put in check" the Kurds? Because if anything, I would figure that the Shia would support them seeing as how it benifits both the kurds and the shia to have Iraq separated. Also the US would have a people with complete control over them in the Kurds, if they helped the get thier own nation. Even though they state that they don't want to separate Iraq...
KOKORO - February 2, 2007 07:30 AM (GMT)
first iraq war we took like 1.5 million refrugies!!
who else did?? 400 000 like iran but most come to us. !!
when saddam was bombing them . as humanitarian act. also most have relatives in turkey so we had to . usa and coalition helped them for 4 5 moths then all got away . and we had to deal with them..
3 4 moths ago abdullah gül made a statement. if Usa would leave the region we would protect our friend kurdish people ..... ;)
that means we can make aagrement with usa and go north iraq . and that would be a great mistake.
for my idea. iraq is burning and never had good realtions with us. so let it burn .
and usa left kurds in 1975 in 1991 !! and will leave them in 2007 and 2008 .
then there will be a real renoside there. new Ruanda.
Kaan
who else did?? 400 000 like iran but most come to us. !!
when saddam was bombing them . as humanitarian act. also most have relatives in turkey so we had to . usa and coalition helped them for 4 5 moths then all got away . and we had to deal with them..
3 4 moths ago abdullah gül made a statement. if Usa would leave the region we would protect our friend kurdish people ..... ;)
that means we can make aagrement with usa and go north iraq . and that would be a great mistake.
for my idea. iraq is burning and never had good realtions with us. so let it burn .
and usa left kurds in 1975 in 1991 !! and will leave them in 2007 and 2008 .
then there will be a real renoside there. new Ruanda.
Kaan
PEGASUS - February 2, 2007 11:37 AM (GMT)
KOKORO has defin. a point with the 1,5 mil. kurds refrugies,we greeks do a big mistake to thing that "ALL" kurds in turkey living in danger thats symply not tru, and maybe ouer goverment in the past use it as a point to have the turks in a political distance..after özalan arestet and until today i personaly sympatysice more with turks then with kurds ....
kurds behaivoer here in germany are bad and they always give a bad example with criminal actings and honory kills etc. plus they give turks with this acting internationaly a bad name, because much germans thing they are turks...and the kurds dont like the greeks so much as some greeks belive ..."that means not the turks are ANGELS" :P
thats some experiences i have make the last years..
regards
kurds behaivoer here in germany are bad and they always give a bad example with criminal actings and honory kills etc. plus they give turks with this acting internationaly a bad name, because much germans thing they are turks...and the kurds dont like the greeks so much as some greeks belive ..."that means not the turks are ANGELS" :P
thats some experiences i have make the last years..
regards
Spartan1 - February 2, 2007 11:43 AM (GMT)
Can I ask what everybody's thoughts are in relation to the evidence that was released during the prosecution of Saddam Hussein, regarding Turkey's agreement with Saddam Hussein regarding the Kurdish people.
More specifically, the documents revealed that Saddam and the Turkish government at the time, had agreed to tackle the Kurdish issue in ways considered not so humanitarian. Although Turkey and Iran did assist by taking in refugees, it seems that there was another side to the story.
More specifically, the documents revealed that Saddam and the Turkish government at the time, had agreed to tackle the Kurdish issue in ways considered not so humanitarian. Although Turkey and Iran did assist by taking in refugees, it seems that there was another side to the story.
D.E.A - February 3, 2007 03:09 AM (GMT)
The thing is that Kurds where/are a common "threat" for iran/iraq/turkey so everyone let the otherone kill them...It's a mistake to just say that only saddam butchered them...The turks/iranians did/do as well...Now i think that Turkey is more concerned for the oil rich northern iraq and its oil than the pkk problem..If i remember right none of our turkish friends here ever mentioned of Pkk as a major problem...
I don't care how they act in Germany or else where as i don't care if they like,us Greeks more or less than the Turkish..What i care for is bullshit...I can't/wont tolerate being taken for fool.... "We helped the kurds".... pff...
Imagine what kind of huge help milocevich gave the albanian minority of kosovo!!.....
And in the end, i say once again.. If you want all your problems solved then it is very easy to give kurds aytonomity and a portion of your lands... :yawn:
I don't care how they act in Germany or else where as i don't care if they like,us Greeks more or less than the Turkish..What i care for is bullshit...I can't/wont tolerate being taken for fool.... "We helped the kurds".... pff...
Imagine what kind of huge help milocevich gave the albanian minority of kosovo!!.....
And in the end, i say once again.. If you want all your problems solved then it is very easy to give kurds aytonomity and a portion of your lands... :yawn:
KOKORO - February 5, 2007 07:50 AM (GMT)
sorry
when sadam was killing them where did the kurds go ?? switzerland ?? :doubt:
we have a terror problem we dont have problem with kurds whoses number is nearly 10 000 000 million in turkey . they live every where for 20 years pkk killed nearly 5000 soldiers 300 teachers.........
never a turkish group atack their kurdish neigbours!
even my girl friend is kurdish i take latin clases so i had to find latin looking girl friend . un fortunately we dont have latins in turkey to musch . so i find a latin looking one.
and being kurdish or turkºsh doesnt matter.
dont look out side white or balck thing are grey here alot.
some photos of my friend girl friends bithday 2 weeks ago.
find me !! ;)
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/album?c=serrus...0018762&.src=ph
about north i raq yes oil is our interest. rest can burn kurds arabs all.
and for giving land . if they have power they can take it. but Anatolia history is full of people coming and trying to take our land. or rizing up. mostly result end like slaturing.
because we are normaly calm people but when things turn black . we trun every where red. and history shows that.
and again if some body whats to give kurds land any body who likes them alot can donate their lands. ;)
stay well.
when sadam was killing them where did the kurds go ?? switzerland ?? :doubt:
we have a terror problem we dont have problem with kurds whoses number is nearly 10 000 000 million in turkey . they live every where for 20 years pkk killed nearly 5000 soldiers 300 teachers.........
never a turkish group atack their kurdish neigbours!
even my girl friend is kurdish i take latin clases so i had to find latin looking girl friend . un fortunately we dont have latins in turkey to musch . so i find a latin looking one.
and being kurdish or turkºsh doesnt matter.
dont look out side white or balck thing are grey here alot.
some photos of my friend girl friends bithday 2 weeks ago.
find me !! ;)
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/album?c=serrus...0018762&.src=ph
about north i raq yes oil is our interest. rest can burn kurds arabs all.
and for giving land . if they have power they can take it. but Anatolia history is full of people coming and trying to take our land. or rizing up. mostly result end like slaturing.
because we are normaly calm people but when things turn black . we trun every where red. and history shows that.
and again if some body whats to give kurds land any body who likes them alot can donate their lands. ;)
stay well.
PEGASUS - February 5, 2007 08:58 PM (GMT)
:applause: haha are you the british looking guy on the second pic ...nice pics btw.where do you live exactly?
:thumbsup:
regards
:thumbsup:
regards
D.E.A - February 5, 2007 10:57 PM (GMT)
You know you as a tribe are part of that give and take think in anatolia....You are not indigenous species there you know...You moved from where and settled somewhere else...
Now as far as the photo thing you got there...Hmmmm damn it...You got the better one...I'm not visiting istanbul now!!! :angry:
although...You know 2 of the ladies are pretty good looking...If you can arrange something...I might visit you after all :baeh: :baeh:
Now as far as the photo thing you got there...Hmmmm damn it...You got the better one...I'm not visiting istanbul now!!! :angry:
although...You know 2 of the ladies are pretty good looking...If you can arrange something...I might visit you after all :baeh: :baeh:
KOKORO - February 6, 2007 07:49 AM (GMT)
haha uare welcome
our girl friends look good but
we have a word for them out side burns u inside burns me.
typical good looking girls have millions of problems inside millions. ;)
yes we come as a tribe becomea door slave for arabs for 2oo years . mixtured with other 12 tribes in anatolia mixture become turks.and then realized that why we protect them so we kill them all than become stronger with the crusader wars become stronger . becasue u know if the crusaders didnt destroy constantinapolis. in 1200 we count take it.
likiyans ermenians kurds arabs akads uratus old romans zazas cecens . acualy now we are alittle bit croweded for a tribe 72 million.
so time goes fast.
people dont own the land ,land owns the people. who knows may be 100 years later istanbul will be invaded by chinese. or usa !! ..
who knows !!!! :doubt:
may be in 2 weeks i will be in usa is there any body else there ???
stay well
our girl friends look good but
we have a word for them out side burns u inside burns me.
typical good looking girls have millions of problems inside millions. ;)
yes we come as a tribe becomea door slave for arabs for 2oo years . mixtured with other 12 tribes in anatolia mixture become turks.and then realized that why we protect them so we kill them all than become stronger with the crusader wars become stronger . becasue u know if the crusaders didnt destroy constantinapolis. in 1200 we count take it.
likiyans ermenians kurds arabs akads uratus old romans zazas cecens . acualy now we are alittle bit croweded for a tribe 72 million.
so time goes fast.
people dont own the land ,land owns the people. who knows may be 100 years later istanbul will be invaded by chinese. or usa !! ..
who knows !!!! :doubt:
may be in 2 weeks i will be in usa is there any body else there ???
stay well
PEGASUS - February 6, 2007 02:32 PM (GMT)
Kokoro you didnt awnser me ,who are you on the pics??
D.E.A - February 6, 2007 06:27 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (PEGASUS @ Feb 6 2007, 04:32 PM) |
| Kokoro you didnt awnser me ,who are you on the pics?? |
PEGASUS - February 6, 2007 07:03 PM (GMT)
o i see with the blue shirt okay ..thanks D.E.A how do you know ?
D.E.A - February 6, 2007 08:51 PM (GMT)
Kokoro must be the one in the middle cause he's holding the lady's hand.So i guess this lady(latino looking :P ) is kokoro's wife.On the other hand we have another guy right next to kokoro who looks quite similar to him.Another thing,Kokoro and the lady(whats her name btw?) are shown in many picts of the album and the guy on the right of kokoro if i'm not mistaken he's at one or 2 pics.So i concluded that kokoro must be the one in the middle,his beautifull wife the one at the pic i showed you and his brother the one with the black shirt.I also think that kokoro's brother must be the one taking pictures during the party cause judjing by his stance it is as if he's holding the camera and since his not shown in many picts he must be the occasion's photographer.
KOKORO - February 8, 2007 09:01 AM (GMT)
hahaha
not them they are my friends
im the kingpin style guy with the latin girl friend.
look for the bald handsome guy.
ý m not mariend still have girl friends.. ;) black tshirt guy is me. ;)
not them they are my friends
im the kingpin style guy with the latin girl friend.
look for the bald handsome guy.
ý m not mariend still have girl friends.. ;) black tshirt guy is me. ;)
D.E.A - February 8, 2007 05:39 PM (GMT)
F*CK!!!! I GOT IT ALL WRONG!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! :bash: :bash: :Cursing: :Cursing: :baeh:
PEGASUS - February 8, 2007 08:16 PM (GMT)
HAHAHA HA :roflmao: D.E.A.
derkrieger - February 9, 2007 12:24 PM (GMT)
Kokoro your lady has beautiful eyes and a night-black hair, awesome, you are a lucky guy. But to tell the truth my girlfriend is more beautiful. Sorry guys no photos yet... :bootyshake:
KOKORO - February 9, 2007 02:04 PM (GMT)
who said i have one ! ;)
we are eastern country we can have 4 !! even dating !!!
:P
we are eastern country we can have 4 !! even dating !!!
:P
Thermopyles - February 10, 2007 02:16 AM (GMT)
:applause: Very nice looking ladys mate! :hug:
KOKORO - February 10, 2007 06:41 AM (GMT)
as a result why would we invade north irak life is here!!! ;)