In continuation of a discussion, here is a new thread on the subject... One that is very interesting and overlooked.

OPB (originaly posted by) DY

Reply by Thermopyles:

Yes the pentagon attack was CLEARLY NOT from a large commercial airliner... a blind man can see that...

http://911review.org/Wget/investigate911.b.../pentagon1.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/
http://911review.org/Wiki/PentagonAttack.shtml


Here is one site trying to dismiss the conspiricy theories. Problem is they only try to dismiss the WTC attacks...:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html


Comments?

From what i know a physics professor along with others leads a "movement" to inform the people of the US of A about the biggest lie of the US of A history.. The hole thing is about the way the towers collapsed,they collapsed way too faster than they should.

Now as far as the pentagon attack it is a complete hoax because a boeing wouldn't just create a so small impact hole....And on top of that there is a hole in the inner layers of the buildings which is completely circular and without any reason..The only reason is explosives plantation.

What can I say... when otherwise rational people seriously consider all these crazy conspiracy theories... how can I blame them when they believe much less?

I won't bother trying to use logical reasoning as to why in an open society having such conspiracies is impossible. Nixon couldn't deal with a few tape recordings, Clinton with a soiled dress, Bush with a few detainees and wiretaps... but stage (all or parts of) 9/11 and you can get away with it! Much like they got away with the fake moon landings! :bricks:

The scientific community has spoken with regard to the SCIENCE behind the events:
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/0...n.Pentagon.html

The above information provided by scientists, experts, and reported by an accredited university. But these guys must be on the "payroll".

Let us see what the actual "crackpots" have to say about the Pentagon attack:
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

PS: Popular Mechanics has debunked all of the 9/11 conspiracy claims:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...html?page=1&c=y

Digenis, rational people will cosider all angles, not only what is spoon fed to them. Funny thing about all these witnesses people claim, because NOONE IS ON RECORD as seeing the plane go in the building. further, the pentagons own survailance pics only show the explosion, and no plane. Futher, the first reporter on site was a CNN reporter, and the first thisg he noted was that there was no plane debris at the crash site. I saw the broadcast with my own eyes. I'll try to find a clip of it.

"crazy theories"... sure, just like the JFK assasination theory is "crazy"...

I didn't belive that a plane hit the pentagon before I even heard that there were theories about it, for one simple reason: there are no marks on the side of the pentagon where the wings would have hit. doesn't take a genius to add 2+2... I mean the list goes on and on. Like the fact that the "plane" hit the last remaining stone side of the builing, as the other 4 sides are newly remodeled with sheetrock, and if a plane hit them it would cause 10x the damage. Oh, and the fact that there were over 300 people "sick" that day and didn't show up for their posts at the area that was hit. Lastly, my mother used to work there for the evironmental department. She sais that it is packed elbow to elbow in there. There is no way a 757 could score a direct hit (at 400knph no less) and only cause 120 fatalities...

There is a fantasic site about all the things out of place on this attack, and I still cant find it again. Maybe its gone, I don't know. But I will continue to look for it.

One final note: have you EVER heard Bush or his cronie talk about the pentagon attack? Only the WTC. As for the WTC, there is litte dispute. There is ton of vedeo. But how is it possible that at the nerve centre of the US military, that there would not be 24hr survailance on all sides of the structure? how is the NO vid and NO pics of the plane???

100% false. NO baggage was found. NO seats were found. just some scrap metal that was painted. If in case you didn't know, AA doesn't paint their plaines, there are bare T6 aluminium.

George,

Follow the links and read the interviews people gave. They found everything you claim is "missing". If you read the Popular Mechanics piece (and many others from credible sources), you would know exactly what happened to the wings. There are ample pictures on the internet of planes that have hit concrete buildings, and there has been no cartoon-like cut-out made (in fact the quite limited damage is used a "proof" by some that planes did not hit the WTC).

If your'e going to look for a conspiracy theory, at least focus on WTC 7.

And FYI, American Airlines does paint their aircraft:


And here again more pictures in case anyone still has any doubts:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html

I cant buy it. You remember flight 800 that blew up from the inside out due to kerosene vapours at 600 mph over the atlantic? Well they were able to re-assemble over 70 percent of it from the bottom of the sea. And you believe that they can not even re-assemble 1-2% of this plane, even when they know the exact location of the impact?

And for those huge metal posts that were knocked down. Do you realy belive that the plane could knock down 5 of those at no less than +-220 knph (stall speed)without having the wing torn off? And if the wing did get torn off and not impact on the building, then it would be relitively (to what was found at least) intact.

And no, I don't believe any of the explanations about the wings. They defy physics. I mean, there is not even a BROKEN WINDOW to the left OR right of the building. Shouldn't debris from the exploding/ breaking wings at least break a window? Additionaly, the plane hit at a 45o angle like they say, then the starbord side of the wing should hit the building at/about the same time as the nose.

And did you see the pentagon building fotos? They show the explosion clearly outwards with not even a hint of the tail piece sticking out of the building.

If these are not reason enough to at least question the situation, well then ignorance must be bliss...

PS the 2 colour stripes down the fuselage is not considered a painted plane. 90% of the plane is not painted besause it is lighter and therefore more fuel effecient. At least that's what a AA pilot told me.

I was intenting to start this on September 11 but Thermo got me into it..

For me 9/11 is a very important day.. the day that practically changed the world we live in and made all "masks" fall.. it just proves that anything can happen from now on..

I'm following the "conspiracy theories" for several years now (not only about 9/11 but for many other things) and as i said before in the thread about "Turks in America" to Artemidoros i have come to the following conclusion:

In the past information was very easy to control, today it is not.. especially because of the internet.. the internet can't be controlled, can't be sensored, information can't be hidden by anyone..
The only way that someone can control information today is mis-information.. so when a theory that holds water appears, a "web" of other theories is created, surrounding the original one and drawning it in "shit" literaly.. one says something "dangerous" then someone else comes on top of him and adds something outrageous.. i say a plane didn't exist, someone else comes and refering to me he adds that indeed there was no plane and it was a UFO.. someone else adds that he saw clear markings of the all seeing eye on the scene and a third that angels were saving people..
soon enough the original story is burried under a pile of obviously wrong theories and suggestions and then some "credible", many time on a payroll, "scientist" appears and easily discredits everything.. someties in the form of the posted by Digenis quote:

and many times in more formal way like the one presented in "simulation website" or those "popular this and popular that sites" (i personaly don't like all those sites that use the word "popular" with "science" because their info is more popular than scientific and in general they present nothing but statements that someone credible proved something without actually presenting the case)

So everything is handled together... planes, UFOs, lizards (that's one i haven't heared actually but it can present the mentality of what i describe)...

The "theory" behind this approach is that most people simply don't want to accept the different.. they don't want to believe that they can be so much deceived, that their world is not what they see and believe... Einstein stated once: "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."
On top of that, there are many people (i will put Digenis in this category) that want also to feel that they are not the ones "deceived" by all those "conspiracy theorists" that fooled the rest of the world, so whenever some "credible" theory appears that smashes most of the (fake) conspiracy theories rush to jump into beliveing it, supporting it passionently, and mocking others that can't see the real truth and are fool enough to even deal with all those charlatans that populate the net...

Outcome.. information is hidden again.. people go back to their works, families, nightlife, and the world goes on as should (or better as they planned it should)

9/11 was the day that people learned the term "terror".. the day that wars arround the world found the excuse to start.. that US crippled economy found an excuse to continue surviving and boost to stand in its feet.. that many people got alot of money.. that most of the people gave up their freedom for the sake of "security".. that constitutions changed.. that places like Guantanamo appeared and those opposing dissapeared.. that muslims became dengerous.. that we came back to an "us or them" doctrine even worse than the one during the cold war.. that the "devide and rule" now applies to all individuals than to nations and fractions..

9/11 was the beginning of the new world order.. believe it or not, want it or not.. and it was the day that everyone witnessed (and was incapable in the beginning to even question) the biggest public (and official) lie ever created in the history of man kind (as we know it at least)

For me the point with 9/11 is not what is the truth or what theory can explain it better.. the point is that people should unite and demand the truth.. people should understand that something in not OK with this whole story and that officials have to answer the questions.. that is the important thing..

For the story now we can talk for hours... there are numerous scenarios and many explanations.. most theories are wrong (including ALL official theories) and you can't avoid stating things that are just assumptions...
From my 4 years of research on the topic i will present you with those few links i find valuable (and enough actually)

Pantagon Attack:

The following 5 part series from 911-strike.com covers all theories (planes, UAVS, missiles, demolition) official and "conspiracy" and exposes their mistakes and/or truths.. it is the best article i've seen on the story.. it also discusses the mistakes of the simulations official stories rely on, the F4 simulation, the found parts, those that should have been found but didn't, the engine, the lampposts, the 3 different and contradicting routes of the plane (if any), the damage in the Pentagon, etc..

http://www.911-strike.com/pentagon.htm
http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm
http://www.911-strike.com/engines.htm
http://www.911-strike.com/quantum-path.htm
http://www.911-strike.com/siding-scam.htm

This link has all eye-witness testemonies with their names, proffesion, and mistakes when existing...

http://www.911-strike.com/eyewitness_explicit.htm

The WTC Attacks:

The following 2 articles are more that enough for explaining why the WTC towers shouldn't have collapsed... and if they had, not in that fashion..
They are by a civil engineer, with schematics of the buildings, photos of the area and the collapse, comments, references, etc...

if this is not enough for someone then we should ask at least one question. How come and 2 buildings, suffering completely different structural damage, collapsed in the same way? Why do we plan demolitions then.. lets burn them and let then dissintegrade into dust... :)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/mslp_i.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/mslp_ii.htm

Here is a very large collection of still images and videos of the collapse.. carefull viewing can reveil alot...
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/

A sample chapter in pdf from the book Painful Questions.. worth checking...
http://members.aol.com/erichuf/PainfulQuestions_1.pdf

Finally, it would worth asking ourselves about the whole story... does it hold any water? what are the odds of terrorists planning and executing succesfuly such a scenario? Is it possible without any "internal" help? Is it even remotely possible at all? Who actually gained something from this? Why officials rushed to close any investigation and hide or distroy all evidence? Are the official explanations satisfactory and complete?

Lets remember that at least two FBI field agents filed reports of Al-Quaida linked individuals training to fly commercial arliners. One of which didn't even want to train for take off and landing, only to fly already in the air. Those reports were dismissed by their superiors. The Clinton administration when they left told the Bush administration that the biggest threat they face was from Al-Quaida. Bush promptly spent 7 of the next 11 months at his ranch clearing bushes. One week before the attack bush, on his ranch, was notified of a potential attack and did nothing. So, who was the person who dismissed the field reports? who was the person behind them? Why? Why has the 11/9 commission been stonewalled at every turn?

So IMHO the answer to the above question would be "no", whether that help be passive or active...

Initially i was favouring the idea that indeed US agencies knew about what was going to happen and just let it happen or even provided some help in some critical points... but as i was thinking of the whole story over and over again i now find as the only possible scenario for the whole story to be an 100% internal job... consieved, planned, and executed by US agencies alone and blamed on "terrorists"..

All these reports about warnings that nobody noticed serve the following purposes:

1) Fast and accurate pinpointing of the "enemy" (done in a very stupid way actually and targeting very naive audiences if i may say.. found a passport 3 blocks from WTC that was supposed to be onboard the plane :doubt:, found a car with instruction manuals and the koran in the airport parking.. give me a brake)
2) Need for even more strict security and control over all citizens (if terrorists can slip out of the net that easily then we should tighten the net)
3) Need of a new, supervising Agency (Homeland Security) that will control everything and would eliminate previous, not centraly controlled, activities of the various existing agencies (thus greater central control for those seeking for it, and elimination of "safety" procedures that could allow one agency to interrupt the work of another agency.. i.e. FBI can't get in the way of CIA in an internal and not allowed job anymore since the Homeland Security can stop it.. the procedures that could enforce Democracy and control illegal activities of agencies now seized to exist)

It is also proven that those initially blamed as the terrorist crew of the 4 planes are alive and kicking as we speak... and those that were prettending to be them were somebody else... check what BBC wrote about it...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

The following link is even more strange but i can't confirm if it is true or just a hoax.. if true though (not the "commando" theory, that's too much, but just the events as presented) then we have external factors in the game too..

http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/ZionistDid911.html

Well dourie, that article certainly dismisses any strand of credibility Bushco might have left, but if the US did plan it, wouldn't they make sure the real person didn't exist/dissapear?

That's the problem with me, is I've bought the WTC attack, even the collapse of them... But there is no way I can buy the pentagon attack. But wouln't the same person/group that's behind one also be behind the other? One side HAS to be wrong...

What i cannot buy is that suddenly 4-5 highjackers armed to the teeth with....paper cutters take control of the plane and none from the passengers do something about it...I mean come on!! THEY WERE ARMED WITH PAPER CUTTERS!!!Even my 80 year grandma would kick their ass...Another thing that caught my attention was that they gained entrance to the cockpit...Isn't it supposed to be secured for that kind of incidents?..

Well not necessarily.. it worked fine for them as is, didn't it? They wanted to make an initial claim that Arab terrorists did it.. after the gears start turning and everybody is convinced that this is the case finding out that those originaly blamed are not those that actually performed the attacks doesn't harm the plan... this info wasn't that much promoted in the states anyway, and it can be handled easily by saying that ok it was those guys but some other arab that stole their passports..

The whole story just prooves how fast were the authorities to blame arabs and how investigations didn't care about finding the truth after all... just to blame and stop.. most people accept what authorities say and this is enough for them for creating a public opinion that supports their goals..

As for the Pentagon now.. i really can't understand it either.. i can't understand why to perform the Pentagon attack.. the WTC would be more than enough for everyone and actually if there was no Pentagon then most people would have stop asking about what happened that day... the Pentagon attack was a bit out of context and appearing to have no practical use to any greater plan and this makes it interesting actually...

I find the following part of that 5 part series related to the Pentagon attack i posted earlier as a possible explanation:

@DEA

Yes.. the story with the box cutters is at least laughable.. if it was just one plane it could have a very low probability, but for 4 planes it is just toooooo much...