Title: Israeli Troops in Lebanon
derkrieger - July 12, 2006 09:20 AM (GMT)
SPIEGEL ONLINE - 12. Juli 2006, 10:31
URL: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,426302,00.html
Reaktion auf Entführung
Israelische Truppen dringen in den Libanon ein
Im Nahen Osten überschlagen sich die Ereignisse: Nachdem die libanesische Hisbollah-Miliz im Grenzgebiet zwei israelische Soldaten entführt hat, sind israelische Truppen in den Libanon eingerückt. Medien berichten über schwere Kämpfe.
Beirut - Die israelische Armee ist nach eigenen Angaben mit Luft- und Bodentruppen in den Libanon vorgerückt. Ein Militärsprecher sagte heute, damit reagierten die Streitkräfte auf die von der libanesischen Schiitengruppe Hisbollah kurz zuvor bekannt gegebene Gefangennahme von zwei israelischen Soldaten. "Unsere Flugzeuge, unsere Panzer und unsere Artillerie operieren auf libanesischem Gebiet", fügte der Sprecher hinzu.
Der militärische Arm der von Teheran und Damaskus unterstützten Hisbollah hatte im Hisbollah-Sender al-Manar die Entführung zweier israelischer Soldaten gemeldet. Nach Angaben der libanesischen Polizei wurden die Soldaten im Gebiet von Aita el Schaab an der Grenze zu Israel entführt. Das israelische Verteidigungsministerium bestätigte die Entführung. Die Hisbollah erklärte, sie wolle im Gegenzug gegen die Freilassung der beiden Soldaten von Israel die Freilassung mehrerer Gefangener erzwingen.
Israelische Truppen starteten daraufhin Angriffe auf Straßen, Brücken und vermutete Stellungen der Hisbollah im Süden Libanons, offenbar um zu verhindern, dass die Soldaten weiter von der Grenze weggebracht werden. In einem Fax an die Nachrichtenagentur AP teilte die Hisbollah jedoch mit, die entführten Soldaten seien in "sicheres Gebiet" gebracht worden. Hisbollah-Anhänger feierten in Vororten Beiruts und verteilten Süßigkeiten als Zeichen des Triumphs.
Zuvor hatten Hisbollah-Kämpfer nach Angaben aus Sicherheitskreisen beider Länder dutzende Raketen und Granaten auf einen israelischen Grenzposten und eine Stadt abgefeuert. Bei Angriffen an der Grenze zu Israel sollen Sanitätern zufolge mindestens drei Israelis getötet worden sein. Acht weitere Israelis wurden verletzt, wie der israelische Rettungsdienst Saka mitteilte. Zur Identität der Getöteten gab es zunächst keine Angaben. Israels Regierungschef Ehud Olmert berief eine Krisensitzung des Kabinetts ein.
Die Bewohner der Region seien aufgefordert worden, in Bunkern Schutz zu suchen, berichtete der israelische Rundfunk. Israelische Soldaten erwiderten das Feuer auf libanesische Ziele im Grenzgebiet. Es war der größte Gewaltausbruch in der Region seit Ende Mai. Olmert sprach von "schweren Tagen", die das israelische Volk durchlebe. Zuletzt waren vor fast sechs Jahren drei israelische Soldaten nach Libanon entführt worden, ihre Leichen wurden später im Rahmen eines Gefangenenaustauschs nach Israel übergeführt.
In der Vergangenheit hatte die Hisbollah immer wieder das israelische Grenzgebiet angegriffen. Israel hatte seine Truppen nach 18 Jahren Besatzung im Mai 2000 aus der sogenannten Sicherheitszone im Süden des Libanons abgezogen.
Die Eskalation kommt zu einer Zeit, zu der Israel zur Befreiung eines verschleppten Soldaten auch eine Offensive im palästinensischen Gaza-Streifen gestartet hat. Ende Juni war im Gaza-Streifen der 19-jährige israelische Soldat Gilad Schalit verschleppt worden. Zu seiner Entführung hatten sich drei militante Palästiensergruppen bekannt, unter ihnen der militärische Arm der regierenden radikalislamischen Hamas.
phw/Reuters/AFP/AP/dpa
URL: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,426302,00.html
Reaktion auf Entführung
Israelische Truppen dringen in den Libanon ein
Im Nahen Osten überschlagen sich die Ereignisse: Nachdem die libanesische Hisbollah-Miliz im Grenzgebiet zwei israelische Soldaten entführt hat, sind israelische Truppen in den Libanon eingerückt. Medien berichten über schwere Kämpfe.
Beirut - Die israelische Armee ist nach eigenen Angaben mit Luft- und Bodentruppen in den Libanon vorgerückt. Ein Militärsprecher sagte heute, damit reagierten die Streitkräfte auf die von der libanesischen Schiitengruppe Hisbollah kurz zuvor bekannt gegebene Gefangennahme von zwei israelischen Soldaten. "Unsere Flugzeuge, unsere Panzer und unsere Artillerie operieren auf libanesischem Gebiet", fügte der Sprecher hinzu.
Der militärische Arm der von Teheran und Damaskus unterstützten Hisbollah hatte im Hisbollah-Sender al-Manar die Entführung zweier israelischer Soldaten gemeldet. Nach Angaben der libanesischen Polizei wurden die Soldaten im Gebiet von Aita el Schaab an der Grenze zu Israel entführt. Das israelische Verteidigungsministerium bestätigte die Entführung. Die Hisbollah erklärte, sie wolle im Gegenzug gegen die Freilassung der beiden Soldaten von Israel die Freilassung mehrerer Gefangener erzwingen.
Israelische Truppen starteten daraufhin Angriffe auf Straßen, Brücken und vermutete Stellungen der Hisbollah im Süden Libanons, offenbar um zu verhindern, dass die Soldaten weiter von der Grenze weggebracht werden. In einem Fax an die Nachrichtenagentur AP teilte die Hisbollah jedoch mit, die entführten Soldaten seien in "sicheres Gebiet" gebracht worden. Hisbollah-Anhänger feierten in Vororten Beiruts und verteilten Süßigkeiten als Zeichen des Triumphs.
Zuvor hatten Hisbollah-Kämpfer nach Angaben aus Sicherheitskreisen beider Länder dutzende Raketen und Granaten auf einen israelischen Grenzposten und eine Stadt abgefeuert. Bei Angriffen an der Grenze zu Israel sollen Sanitätern zufolge mindestens drei Israelis getötet worden sein. Acht weitere Israelis wurden verletzt, wie der israelische Rettungsdienst Saka mitteilte. Zur Identität der Getöteten gab es zunächst keine Angaben. Israels Regierungschef Ehud Olmert berief eine Krisensitzung des Kabinetts ein.
Die Bewohner der Region seien aufgefordert worden, in Bunkern Schutz zu suchen, berichtete der israelische Rundfunk. Israelische Soldaten erwiderten das Feuer auf libanesische Ziele im Grenzgebiet. Es war der größte Gewaltausbruch in der Region seit Ende Mai. Olmert sprach von "schweren Tagen", die das israelische Volk durchlebe. Zuletzt waren vor fast sechs Jahren drei israelische Soldaten nach Libanon entführt worden, ihre Leichen wurden später im Rahmen eines Gefangenenaustauschs nach Israel übergeführt.
In der Vergangenheit hatte die Hisbollah immer wieder das israelische Grenzgebiet angegriffen. Israel hatte seine Truppen nach 18 Jahren Besatzung im Mai 2000 aus der sogenannten Sicherheitszone im Süden des Libanons abgezogen.
Die Eskalation kommt zu einer Zeit, zu der Israel zur Befreiung eines verschleppten Soldaten auch eine Offensive im palästinensischen Gaza-Streifen gestartet hat. Ende Juni war im Gaza-Streifen der 19-jährige israelische Soldat Gilad Schalit verschleppt worden. Zu seiner Entführung hatten sich drei militante Palästiensergruppen bekannt, unter ihnen der militärische Arm der regierenden radikalislamischen Hamas.
phw/Reuters/AFP/AP/dpa
derkrieger - July 12, 2006 09:46 AM (GMT)
the israeli army is infiltrating the lebanese territory after the libanese hizbollah kidnapped two israeli soldiers. Heavy exchange of gunfire are taking place at the moment says the article.
derkrieger - July 12, 2006 11:34 AM (GMT)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5171616.stm
Hezbollah seizes Israel soldiers
The Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah has captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the Lebanese-Israeli border.
There has been heavy fighting in the area, with Hezbollah firing rockets and Israel responding with tank and artillery fire, as well as air strikes.
Aircraft struck roads, bridges and guerrilla posts, Lebanese sources say, and there are reports of casualties.
Israel's PM Ehud Olmert said the attack was an "act of war" by Lebanon.
Mr Olmert has said he holds Lebanon responsible for the fate of the two Israeli soldiers and that it would pay a "heavy price".
The prime minister has called an emergency cabinet meeting to discuss further action, although he has already ruled out negotiations.
"The Lebanese government, of which Hezbollah is a part, is trying to shake regional stability," he said at a press conference in Jerusalem.
"We are already responding with great strength," he said, threatening "very painful and far-reaching" action.
Soldiers' search
Israeli ground troops have entered southern Lebanon to search for the two soldiers, Israeli officials said.
This operation has taken place as a kind of materialisation to the promise that Hezbollah has kept to the Lebanese
Hezbollah TV news editor
The Israeli military plans to call up a reserves division of several thousand soldiers, officials say.
The news of the clashes comes as a major Israeli offensive is under way in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli soldier was kidnapped by Palestinian militants in Israel over two weeks ago.
Overnight, Israel carried out an air strike on a Gaza City house, killing at least six people and injuring 15.
On Wednesday morning, Hezbollah launched dozens of Katyusha rockets and mortar bombs at the Israeli town of Shlomi and at Israeli outposts in the disputed Shebaa Farms area.
Later on Wednesday, Hezbollah said its fighters had destroyed an Israeli tank attempting to cross the border. An Israeli military spokeswoman said there had been a number of casualties.
At least two Lebanese civilians have been killed in Israeli raids against targets in Lebanon, including a bridge on major route though the south.
Civilians in northern Israel have been told to stay in their shelters.
The UN representative in Lebanon, Geir Pedrson, has condemned the escalation and called on Hezbollah to release the soldiers.
Eying swap
Hezbollah said it captured the two Israeli soldiers at 0904 (0704 GMT).
A statement from the group said the two were taken to a "safe place". It did not mention whether they were alive or dead or injured.
The group says it has captured the soldiers to secure the release of detainees held in Israeli prisons.
"Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance ... captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine," the Hezbollah statement said.
Hezbollah captured three Israeli soldiers in 2000. They died during the operation, but four years later, the group was able to exchange their bodies for 430 Palestinians and Lebanese held in Israeli jails.
BBC Middle East analyst Roger Hardy says the capture of two Israeli soldiers is a dramatic gesture of solidarity with the Palestinians - and at the same time adds to the pressures on the Israeli government.
Complicating the picture is the fact that the Lebanese group has the backing of both Syria and Iran.
Israel and American officials are already saying Syria must bear some of the blame for the capture of a young Israeli soldier last month - because it plays host to part of the Hamas leadership.
Pressure on Syria - as well as on the Lebanese government - will now intensify, our analyst adds
Hezbollah seizes Israel soldiers
The Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah has captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the Lebanese-Israeli border.
There has been heavy fighting in the area, with Hezbollah firing rockets and Israel responding with tank and artillery fire, as well as air strikes.
Aircraft struck roads, bridges and guerrilla posts, Lebanese sources say, and there are reports of casualties.
Israel's PM Ehud Olmert said the attack was an "act of war" by Lebanon.
Mr Olmert has said he holds Lebanon responsible for the fate of the two Israeli soldiers and that it would pay a "heavy price".
The prime minister has called an emergency cabinet meeting to discuss further action, although he has already ruled out negotiations.
"The Lebanese government, of which Hezbollah is a part, is trying to shake regional stability," he said at a press conference in Jerusalem.
"We are already responding with great strength," he said, threatening "very painful and far-reaching" action.
Soldiers' search
Israeli ground troops have entered southern Lebanon to search for the two soldiers, Israeli officials said.
This operation has taken place as a kind of materialisation to the promise that Hezbollah has kept to the Lebanese
Hezbollah TV news editor
The Israeli military plans to call up a reserves division of several thousand soldiers, officials say.
The news of the clashes comes as a major Israeli offensive is under way in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli soldier was kidnapped by Palestinian militants in Israel over two weeks ago.
Overnight, Israel carried out an air strike on a Gaza City house, killing at least six people and injuring 15.
On Wednesday morning, Hezbollah launched dozens of Katyusha rockets and mortar bombs at the Israeli town of Shlomi and at Israeli outposts in the disputed Shebaa Farms area.
Later on Wednesday, Hezbollah said its fighters had destroyed an Israeli tank attempting to cross the border. An Israeli military spokeswoman said there had been a number of casualties.
At least two Lebanese civilians have been killed in Israeli raids against targets in Lebanon, including a bridge on major route though the south.
Civilians in northern Israel have been told to stay in their shelters.
The UN representative in Lebanon, Geir Pedrson, has condemned the escalation and called on Hezbollah to release the soldiers.
Eying swap
Hezbollah said it captured the two Israeli soldiers at 0904 (0704 GMT).
A statement from the group said the two were taken to a "safe place". It did not mention whether they were alive or dead or injured.
The group says it has captured the soldiers to secure the release of detainees held in Israeli prisons.
"Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance ... captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine," the Hezbollah statement said.
Hezbollah captured three Israeli soldiers in 2000. They died during the operation, but four years later, the group was able to exchange their bodies for 430 Palestinians and Lebanese held in Israeli jails.
BBC Middle East analyst Roger Hardy says the capture of two Israeli soldiers is a dramatic gesture of solidarity with the Palestinians - and at the same time adds to the pressures on the Israeli government.
Complicating the picture is the fact that the Lebanese group has the backing of both Syria and Iran.
Israel and American officials are already saying Syria must bear some of the blame for the capture of a young Israeli soldier last month - because it plays host to part of the Hamas leadership.
Pressure on Syria - as well as on the Lebanese government - will now intensify, our analyst adds
Alepou 340MB - July 13, 2006 06:29 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| AFX News Limited Israeli aircraft bomb Beirut international airport 07.13.2006, 01:42 AM BEIRUT (XFN-ASIA) - Israeli warplanes have bombed Beirut's international airport as part of a series of raids on Lebanon in retaliation for the killing and capture of its soldiers by the Hezbollah militia. A local police officer told Agence France-Presse there were no casualties in the raids on the airport runways, which led to the closure of the airport to air traffic. Witnesses said there were raids on two runways, leaving four craters on the tarmac, while Lebanese anti-aircraft batteries frantically fired at the invading planes. 'Missiles fell, one on runway 21 and the other on the eastern runway,' the airport official told Agence France-Presse. 'Two airplanes, which were due to land this morning, were told to divert their flights to the airport of Larnaca (on the neighbouring island of Cyprus),' he said. Israeli warplanes zoomed twice over the airport before launching the missiles, at least one of which first caused thick dark smoke, an Agence France-Presse photographer said. The bombing of the airport, recently named after former premier Rafiq Hariri who was assassinated in February 2005, came after a series of Israeli bombardments on Hezbollah targets and bridges. Police said 27 Lebanese civilians, including 10 children, were killed in attacks early today in southern Lebanon. Israel launched the military offensive after the capture of two Israeli soldiers by the Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement and the killing of another eight. jj-nay/txw/gf |
Clearday-TRForce - July 17, 2006 08:51 AM (GMT)
Turks evacuating Lebanon amid Israeli blitz
Monday, July 17, 2006
One-hundred-and-sixty Turks have returned to Turkey by two buses chartered by the embassy and by private cars since the beginning of the Israeli bombardment, say officials from the Turkish Embassy in Beirut
ANKARA - Turkish Daily News
Turks have been fleeing from Lebanon -- increasingly under siege from Israeli attacks -- by buses, rented taxis or private cars, news reports said yesterday.
Twenty-four people mostly including Turks evacuated Lebanon yesterday by bus through Syria chartered by the Turkish Embassy in Beirut, which is the second journey arranged by the embassy. The first bus carried 34 people including mostly Turkish businessmen and tourists, who crossed into Turkey at the Turkish-Syrian border crossing of Yaylıdere early on Saturday.
Embassy officials said 160 Turks have returned to Turkey by two buses chartered by the embassy and by private cars since the beginning of the Israeli bombardment.
Most of the Turks who returned to Turkey were in Lebanon for tourism and business reasons, the officials were quoted as saying by the Anatolia news agency. The same officials also said Turkish citizens living in Beirut would be able to return to Turkey if they established contacts with the Turkish Embassy there.
If the number of Turks who wanted to return home is high, we'll line up ferries, said embassy officials.
A 19-year-old university student, who returned to Turkey over the weekend by the first bus charted by the Turkish Embassy, said he did not want to return to Lebanon again.
“There is no peace in the Middle East. People there are always on alert,” Mehmet Ali Çarpar, who was attending Lebanon's American University, was quoted as saying by Anatolia.
The Turkish Foreign Ministry on Friday advised Turks to postpone travel to Lebanon in light of the conflict, with Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül saying that his ministry was working to enable the return of Turkish citizens in the region. Lebanon remained virtually cut off from the outside world after Israel imposed an air and sea blockade, launched repeated strikes on its only international airport and bombed the main highway to Syria.
Erdoğan speaks tough against Israel:
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan charged that Western powers were “keeping mum” over mounting bloodshed in the Middle East, warning that they would “pay the bill” by facing more terrorist attacks.
“Bombs are exploding, innocent people are being killed, and infrastructures are being destroyed. ... The powerful continue to crush the weak, but unfortunately those who hold the power in the world are keeping mum,” Erdoğan was quoted as saying during a ceremony to launch a housing project in the northeastern city of Artvin.
“Those who back global peace (only) with words will sooner or later pay the bill by facing global terrorism. ... This is provoking terrorism,” he said.
Erdoğan complained that violence in the Middle East was also damaging U.S. efforts to enhance democracy and human rights in the region, hinting that Ankara might reconsider its role in such initiatives.
He urged the Group of Eight leaders to push for a ceasefire in the crisis and harshly criticized Israeli military offensives.
“I appeal to the G8 countries to make a joint decision that would allow the U.N. Security Council to establish a ceasefire. ... They have to work this out,” he said.
The leaders of the G8 nations -- Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States -- gathered in Saint Petersburg on Saturday for a summit expected to tackle the turmoil.
Israel launched the strikes in retaliation to the capture of two of its soldiers by the Lebanese Shiite group Hezbollah last week and another soldier by Palestinian militants in Gaza on June 25.
“If the abduction incident in Palestine is negative, responding to it with disproportionate force is worse,” Erdoğan said. “Nothing can justify the showering of bombs on innocent civilians and the merciless destruction of cities.”
“The children of Palestine are as precious as those of Israel,” he said, as several people from the crowd he was addressing shouted “Down with Israel.”
Turkey, one of Israel's few Muslim allies, sought to mediate in the early stages of the crisis when it sent a special envoy to Syria for talks with President Bashar Assad in a bid to convince Damascus to use its influence over Hamas to secure the release of the Israeli soldier.
Lebanon asks for Turkish mediator for a ceasefire:
Erdoğan spoke by phone with his Lebanese counterpart, Fuad Saniora, who requested Turkish mediation for a cease-fire to end the spiraling violence in the Middle East, an official said.
The prime minister told Saniora Turkey would “make every kind of contribution”for a cease-fire, Erdoğan's spokesman, Akif Beki, was quoted as saying by The Associated Press, but gave no further information.
Palestinian prime minister slams ‘world's silence'
Palestine's Prime Minister Ismail Haniya said the international community has descended into “unprecedented silence” over raging turmoil in the Middle East and Israeli “cruelty” against the Palestinians, in remarks published in a Turkish daily yesterday. “The world is in a very strange state of silence. ... It seems the people do not wish to see this cruelty,” he said in an interview with the mass-circulation daily Sabah. Haniya, however, said he kept his hopes high that “humankind will one day hear the voice of its conscience.”
-TDN
Monday, July 17, 2006
One-hundred-and-sixty Turks have returned to Turkey by two buses chartered by the embassy and by private cars since the beginning of the Israeli bombardment, say officials from the Turkish Embassy in Beirut
ANKARA - Turkish Daily News
Turks have been fleeing from Lebanon -- increasingly under siege from Israeli attacks -- by buses, rented taxis or private cars, news reports said yesterday.
Twenty-four people mostly including Turks evacuated Lebanon yesterday by bus through Syria chartered by the Turkish Embassy in Beirut, which is the second journey arranged by the embassy. The first bus carried 34 people including mostly Turkish businessmen and tourists, who crossed into Turkey at the Turkish-Syrian border crossing of Yaylıdere early on Saturday.
Embassy officials said 160 Turks have returned to Turkey by two buses chartered by the embassy and by private cars since the beginning of the Israeli bombardment.
Most of the Turks who returned to Turkey were in Lebanon for tourism and business reasons, the officials were quoted as saying by the Anatolia news agency. The same officials also said Turkish citizens living in Beirut would be able to return to Turkey if they established contacts with the Turkish Embassy there.
If the number of Turks who wanted to return home is high, we'll line up ferries, said embassy officials.
A 19-year-old university student, who returned to Turkey over the weekend by the first bus charted by the Turkish Embassy, said he did not want to return to Lebanon again.
“There is no peace in the Middle East. People there are always on alert,” Mehmet Ali Çarpar, who was attending Lebanon's American University, was quoted as saying by Anatolia.
The Turkish Foreign Ministry on Friday advised Turks to postpone travel to Lebanon in light of the conflict, with Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül saying that his ministry was working to enable the return of Turkish citizens in the region. Lebanon remained virtually cut off from the outside world after Israel imposed an air and sea blockade, launched repeated strikes on its only international airport and bombed the main highway to Syria.
Erdoğan speaks tough against Israel:
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan charged that Western powers were “keeping mum” over mounting bloodshed in the Middle East, warning that they would “pay the bill” by facing more terrorist attacks.
“Bombs are exploding, innocent people are being killed, and infrastructures are being destroyed. ... The powerful continue to crush the weak, but unfortunately those who hold the power in the world are keeping mum,” Erdoğan was quoted as saying during a ceremony to launch a housing project in the northeastern city of Artvin.
“Those who back global peace (only) with words will sooner or later pay the bill by facing global terrorism. ... This is provoking terrorism,” he said.
Erdoğan complained that violence in the Middle East was also damaging U.S. efforts to enhance democracy and human rights in the region, hinting that Ankara might reconsider its role in such initiatives.
He urged the Group of Eight leaders to push for a ceasefire in the crisis and harshly criticized Israeli military offensives.
“I appeal to the G8 countries to make a joint decision that would allow the U.N. Security Council to establish a ceasefire. ... They have to work this out,” he said.
The leaders of the G8 nations -- Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States -- gathered in Saint Petersburg on Saturday for a summit expected to tackle the turmoil.
Israel launched the strikes in retaliation to the capture of two of its soldiers by the Lebanese Shiite group Hezbollah last week and another soldier by Palestinian militants in Gaza on June 25.
“If the abduction incident in Palestine is negative, responding to it with disproportionate force is worse,” Erdoğan said. “Nothing can justify the showering of bombs on innocent civilians and the merciless destruction of cities.”
“The children of Palestine are as precious as those of Israel,” he said, as several people from the crowd he was addressing shouted “Down with Israel.”
Turkey, one of Israel's few Muslim allies, sought to mediate in the early stages of the crisis when it sent a special envoy to Syria for talks with President Bashar Assad in a bid to convince Damascus to use its influence over Hamas to secure the release of the Israeli soldier.
Lebanon asks for Turkish mediator for a ceasefire:
Erdoğan spoke by phone with his Lebanese counterpart, Fuad Saniora, who requested Turkish mediation for a cease-fire to end the spiraling violence in the Middle East, an official said.
The prime minister told Saniora Turkey would “make every kind of contribution”for a cease-fire, Erdoğan's spokesman, Akif Beki, was quoted as saying by The Associated Press, but gave no further information.
Palestinian prime minister slams ‘world's silence'
Palestine's Prime Minister Ismail Haniya said the international community has descended into “unprecedented silence” over raging turmoil in the Middle East and Israeli “cruelty” against the Palestinians, in remarks published in a Turkish daily yesterday. “The world is in a very strange state of silence. ... It seems the people do not wish to see this cruelty,” he said in an interview with the mass-circulation daily Sabah. Haniya, however, said he kept his hopes high that “humankind will one day hear the voice of its conscience.”
-TDN
Lord - July 17, 2006 10:24 AM (GMT)
iam no hot Israeli supporter...
But to speak the true...
I admire there courage...and there decievesness...
They take no BS..from anyone..
If the mulah hamas idiots dont stop fanatising the people..and make suicide attacks...and also...spred fanatism...kiddnapping soldiers etc etc...
than the palaistinians can wait another 1000 years for peace..
Because Israelis...waited 3000 to create there own state...and for shure..they arent gonna give there state up...easilly..nor there rights/or nor rights..
But to speak the true...
I admire there courage...and there decievesness...
They take no BS..from anyone..
If the mulah hamas idiots dont stop fanatising the people..and make suicide attacks...and also...spred fanatism...kiddnapping soldiers etc etc...
than the palaistinians can wait another 1000 years for peace..
Because Israelis...waited 3000 to create there own state...and for shure..they arent gonna give there state up...easilly..nor there rights/or nor rights..
Lord - July 17, 2006 10:37 AM (GMT)
an Interim Stop at a Cypriot Port
Greek Frigate Sails for Lebanon 17 Jul 2006 08:09:00
Å-mail Print
Sources: ANA
Greek frigate Psara is heading for a Lebanese port in order to pick up the Greeks who submitted a relevant request to the Greek diplomatic authorities. A Cypriot port will be used as an interim stop. "We have received 350 repatriation requests and they will all be fulfilled in the next two days," declared Deputy Foreign Minister Thodoros Kassimis on radio station NET 105.8. At the same time, another frigate and two navy ships are ready to sail if needed, so as to participate in the operation. Two Olympic Airlines planes transferring Greeks and other nationals already landed in Athens’ Eleftherios Venizelos Airport from Lebanon on the weekend, after first stopping at Larnaca’s airport.
________________
God save the Hellenic Navy...
Greek Frigate Sails for Lebanon 17 Jul 2006 08:09:00
Å-mail Print
Sources: ANA
Greek frigate Psara is heading for a Lebanese port in order to pick up the Greeks who submitted a relevant request to the Greek diplomatic authorities. A Cypriot port will be used as an interim stop. "We have received 350 repatriation requests and they will all be fulfilled in the next two days," declared Deputy Foreign Minister Thodoros Kassimis on radio station NET 105.8. At the same time, another frigate and two navy ships are ready to sail if needed, so as to participate in the operation. Two Olympic Airlines planes transferring Greeks and other nationals already landed in Athens’ Eleftherios Venizelos Airport from Lebanon on the weekend, after first stopping at Larnaca’s airport.
________________
God save the Hellenic Navy...
KOKORO - July 17, 2006 02:18 PM (GMT)
İsrael
5 milyon guys beat every neıgbour ın every 15 years.
now they are strong and use power if other side was a little wise .
inspite of scraming and jumping would educate themselfs and decipline them selfs and they wont be toy for israelies.
and syria it is the home of every terorist organization .. beka valey..
what ever you plant you harvest that.
now those terorists would fight for syria if they are brave enoufh.
For me luck is in the favour of who is prapered for the sitiation.
israel is prepared . and ready for any result ...
so who dares wins . and we will see they will win!!
5 milyon guys beat every neıgbour ın every 15 years.
now they are strong and use power if other side was a little wise .
inspite of scraming and jumping would educate themselfs and decipline them selfs and they wont be toy for israelies.
and syria it is the home of every terorist organization .. beka valey..
what ever you plant you harvest that.
now those terorists would fight for syria if they are brave enoufh.
For me luck is in the favour of who is prapered for the sitiation.
israel is prepared . and ready for any result ...
so who dares wins . and we will see they will win!!
Lord - July 17, 2006 04:22 PM (GMT)
Indeed Kaan...
The question though remains...
What if instead of this millions of uneducated Arabs...Israel haid some nations around with more knowledge and diciplin...would they react the same...?
The question though remains...
What if instead of this millions of uneducated Arabs...Israel haid some nations around with more knowledge and diciplin...would they react the same...?
| QUOTE |
| who dares wins |
hehhee...O Tolmon Nika...which means who dares Wins..(The motto of the greek SF)
Thermopyles - July 17, 2006 04:47 PM (GMT)
Yeah the world reaction to this issue is quite gay. I mean, bombing civil infrastructure? Come on... Thats war agains the whole Lebanise themselfs... I can't see how more terrorism would not come out from this issue. And who is going to compensate Lebanon? Who/what group will legitimately look at if this action was a war crime, and do/say something aout it?
Lord - July 17, 2006 04:59 PM (GMT)
You know...
the other plane was...That the Israelis should take Cyprus...and kick out every Greek and Turk from there...
I think this would made them happy...and secure...also the arabs would happy... :D
Now serious...
I pray to God that our Nation ...wouldnt ever have to fight against such enemys...like the hamas...
There is no army..everybody..can have a riffle and shoot at you...or a missle...a RPG...etc etc///
which one would you sort out...? to fight against...?
I have meat Israelis..
You would be suprised...that if i tell you ...they are like Greeks..at any part of there life...
they are so similar to us..that its frighten..
i went to haifa and Jerusalem twice...
and i heard Greek music playing...i saw how they react to some stuf we talked about etc etc...and i have to admit...I loved them...and as i stated i admired them...
They are ready to fight against everybody...to protect there land...
even if its necceseray to react before there enemy reacts...
They learned that if you give your enemy..your finger...he wil take your hand...
so at any level you have to react 100% back ...and even more...
anyway ...as i stated iam not a israel police supporter...i feel sory for the palaistinians and i feel that they should have there own land...finally
the other plane was...That the Israelis should take Cyprus...and kick out every Greek and Turk from there...
I think this would made them happy...and secure...also the arabs would happy... :D
Now serious...
I pray to God that our Nation ...wouldnt ever have to fight against such enemys...like the hamas...
There is no army..everybody..can have a riffle and shoot at you...or a missle...a RPG...etc etc///
which one would you sort out...? to fight against...?
I have meat Israelis..
You would be suprised...that if i tell you ...they are like Greeks..at any part of there life...
they are so similar to us..that its frighten..
i went to haifa and Jerusalem twice...
and i heard Greek music playing...i saw how they react to some stuf we talked about etc etc...and i have to admit...I loved them...and as i stated i admired them...
They are ready to fight against everybody...to protect there land...
even if its necceseray to react before there enemy reacts...
They learned that if you give your enemy..your finger...he wil take your hand...
so at any level you have to react 100% back ...and even more...
anyway ...as i stated iam not a israel police supporter...i feel sory for the palaistinians and i feel that they should have there own land...finally
PINDOS - July 18, 2006 07:06 AM (GMT)
Although I have warm feelings with the Palestian idea and strugle for their own souverein state, I respect the Israeli government.
Lord already wrote some points to which I agree. I would like to see that
Greece could achieve half the goals Israel achieved. I mean talk about genocide and everybody will point to the Holocaust. You might argue "well that wasn't the only genocide", but it seems that Israel is the only nation that really has put herself the goal to never be the suffering nation again. For that I respect them and I also admire them.. If only our politicians would do the job needed for our country, in stead serving their own interests.
Lord talked about similarities in Israelis and Greeks. My best friend is half Israeli, half Dutch. His Jewish grandparents were Jewish Greeks who after the Holocaust went to Israel and his father speaks Greek with his parents. At points I must agree that we have similarities, but I believe that Greeks have a stronger "need for freedom". Talk to a Greek and you will notice that he doesn't follow any law/rule he doesn't believe that is good. Israelis are more a collective, where else in the world can you find kibboets?? I don't see a Greek working in a kibboets...
Lord already wrote some points to which I agree. I would like to see that
Greece could achieve half the goals Israel achieved. I mean talk about genocide and everybody will point to the Holocaust. You might argue "well that wasn't the only genocide", but it seems that Israel is the only nation that really has put herself the goal to never be the suffering nation again. For that I respect them and I also admire them.. If only our politicians would do the job needed for our country, in stead serving their own interests.
Lord talked about similarities in Israelis and Greeks. My best friend is half Israeli, half Dutch. His Jewish grandparents were Jewish Greeks who after the Holocaust went to Israel and his father speaks Greek with his parents. At points I must agree that we have similarities, but I believe that Greeks have a stronger "need for freedom". Talk to a Greek and you will notice that he doesn't follow any law/rule he doesn't believe that is good. Israelis are more a collective, where else in the world can you find kibboets?? I don't see a Greek working in a kibboets...
Kiziroglu - July 18, 2006 08:41 AM (GMT)
Mates i think that there is the chance that again the amis have their hands in the game...now look who the Israelis are fighting...the Hisbollah...a shiit-organisation...a proxy-war...and in the background Iran which supports the hisbollah and the USA the big daddy of Israel. The US maybe is searching for better reasons to bomb Iran....
KOKORO - July 18, 2006 08:54 AM (GMT)
even the arabs can be well educated they cant be well decıplıned!!!
nearly imposıble.
and for my ıdea yes they would ısrealıes would fınd a way !!
even usa would back them up or not .
they would reach thir goal ın any way .
ın any how during the history they achıve all thır goals. entebre operatıon agaınst to save ısraelı pasanger s . 6 days war . Yom kıpur war. Even the arabs were back uped by Cominist russians.
and as ısrael ısrael dont have any luxury to loose a war. no land to make large scale war . they cant loose any part.
but may be in the future turkey will have a new neighbour as ısrael II in ıraq border and use kurds as slaves.
and as a basıc aswer ısraelıes would be better organized and act better than the 4 or 5 arab nations.
and win the war.
KAAN
KOKORO - July 18, 2006 09:07 AM (GMT)
and
ısrael wıll take that 2 soldıers back no mather what wıll hapen ! even they are dead or alıve they wıll take them.
on the way they beat hamas alıttle but . they never leave man to enemy.
ı remeber 5 6 years ago palestıans catch 3 ısraelı soldıers ın cıvılıan chlotes and people kıll the by beatıng . and ısrael bomb gaza agaın. then to take that 3 soldıers dead body reasıed 600 prısoners.
In the press conference one egyptıon reporter asked was thıs a good trade for 3 dead soldıers to 600 prısoners? and the spokes man saıd
Palestıons must thınk thıs our one dead solder is = 200 lıvıng palestıons .
and the egyptıon reported turned ın to red.
they never leave any body behınd.....
ısrael wıll take that 2 soldıers back no mather what wıll hapen ! even they are dead or alıve they wıll take them.
on the way they beat hamas alıttle but . they never leave man to enemy.
ı remeber 5 6 years ago palestıans catch 3 ısraelı soldıers ın cıvılıan chlotes and people kıll the by beatıng . and ısrael bomb gaza agaın. then to take that 3 soldıers dead body reasıed 600 prısoners.
In the press conference one egyptıon reporter asked was thıs a good trade for 3 dead soldıers to 600 prısoners? and the spokes man saıd
Palestıons must thınk thıs our one dead solder is = 200 lıvıng palestıons .
and the egyptıon reported turned ın to red.
they never leave any body behınd.....
baris75 - July 18, 2006 09:17 AM (GMT)
They don't leave not just anybody behind but, they don't leave any body part of anyone behind. Thay have an organisation consisting of relogious man called ZAKA who collects the body parts of suicide bomb victims to burry them intact. I have watched a documentary showing them collecting the body parts of soldiers after they had hit a mine with their APC. Quite hard job to be done by any man. Respect to them.
DouriosYpnos - July 18, 2006 04:28 PM (GMT)
So, more or less.. everybody, for the one or the other reasons respects and supports Israel... nobody complaints about the civilians and the kids that the Israelis kill in this operation (and several similar older operations), nobody finds the Israely responce a bit toooooo much, nobody believes that the other side has many things to claim too and many things to be "unhappy" about, nobody finds the whole existance and history of Israel weird and unatural as well as the blind support to them...
Ok guys.. keep up the good work.. Hail Israel!!! Judaism Uber alles... lets go kill some Arabs...
i must be living on the wrong planet latetly... this can't be real.. <_<
Ok guys.. keep up the good work.. Hail Israel!!! Judaism Uber alles... lets go kill some Arabs...
i must be living on the wrong planet latetly... this can't be real.. <_<
baris75 - July 18, 2006 04:45 PM (GMT)
So, you do it in our name, respect to you too :) . You could have good friendships here in Turkey mate :D .
PINDOS - July 18, 2006 06:19 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| the civilians and the kids that the Israelis kill in this operation (and several similar older operations), nobody finds the Israely responce a bit toooooo much, nobody believes that the other side has many things to claim too and many things to be "unhappy" about, nobody finds the whole existance and history of Israel weird and unatural as well as the blind support to them... Ok guys.. keep up the good work.. Hail Israel!!! Judaism Uber alles... lets go kill some Arabs... i must be living on the wrong planet latetly... this can't be real.. |
Read the post carefully Dourie, nobody said that he or she finds that nation a natural phenomenon in the Middle East. Until 1946 the Arabs where the majority. That's the history. Nobody said the Arab claims were strange.
But history can't change the present day status. The only useful part of history is that it can teach you a lesson. The Israelis learnt history's lesson. Nations don't have friends. And if they want to be truelly safe, they should do the job all alone and make sure that they are strong enough to withstand any enemy.
To bring the subject back to Greece (and Turkey), can we say that our nations have learnt the lesson? I tend towards the no-camp. Greece has been the victim of many wars and genocides, however we still make the same mistakes...
As for the admiring part, the victim who succeeds in changing her destiny should be admired and respected.
Do give you an example:
-Israel wanted airplanes. France refused. They stole the plans and made the KFIR.
-Israel ordered French Patrolboats. France refused to give them. They stole them from the docks.
-Israel wanted a-bombs. They convinced the entire world that the enriched uranium for civilian uses. Muslim nations that tried the same were bombed (Iraq) or might be bombed (Iran).
-Israel needs sattelite images. They steel it from the CIA
Now let's see our nation's great achievements:
-USA refuses to sell armour to Cyprus, but sells them to the occupying nation. We sit and smile while they give us the big "palouki".
-the enemy of the Turkish state, Ocalan, comes to our nation. Instead of fixing a save escape pass. We let him be abducted by the Turks in Kenia.
Tell me shouldn't we respect the Israeli achievements? You might argue that it is a rogue nation and steals if they can't buy it. But I don't have a problem with that. Spartans didn't find stealing a bad thing, being caught was considered bad...
DouriosYpnos - July 18, 2006 07:24 PM (GMT)
Very well stated Pindos!!! Welldone!!! Excellent thinking... Respect to the thieves and the criminals that take care of themselves and walk on bodies for that.. Hoorah!!!
I bet Hitler also falls in the same category.. Stalin.. G.W. Bush... hell steeling and killing for a cause like this is nobel.. admirable.. should be rewarded and tought at schools as a "should follow" example...
I believe that with your logic we should respect and admire Turkey too for occuping Cyprous, exterminating Greeks, Armenians, and Kourds right? they surely learned the lesson we missed.. and they progress boltly there where all fasists have gonne before..
Well done Pindos.. i salute you...
i'm definently living on the wrong planet lately... :(
p.s. i intentionally neglect to comment on the stupidity about Spartans.. i pretend that i didn't even read it... recheck your historical sources before posting such things please...
I bet Hitler also falls in the same category.. Stalin.. G.W. Bush... hell steeling and killing for a cause like this is nobel.. admirable.. should be rewarded and tought at schools as a "should follow" example...
I believe that with your logic we should respect and admire Turkey too for occuping Cyprous, exterminating Greeks, Armenians, and Kourds right? they surely learned the lesson we missed.. and they progress boltly there where all fasists have gonne before..
Well done Pindos.. i salute you...
i'm definently living on the wrong planet lately... :(
p.s. i intentionally neglect to comment on the stupidity about Spartans.. i pretend that i didn't even read it... recheck your historical sources before posting such things please...
Lord - July 19, 2006 07:27 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Read the post carefully Dourie, nobody said that he or she finds that nation a natural phenomenon in the Middle East. Until 1946 the Arabs where the majority. That's the history. Nobody said the Arab claims were strange. |
Bravo re Pindo...very good said...
excactly my point ...
+1 to your thesis...and views...
Re Dourie...i mean common...you can easyly understand the point i was trying to make...without beeing a Israel lover... :damn:
KOKORO - July 19, 2006 09:20 AM (GMT)
Hi
First of all palestions must think of their childrens future!!! first.
1945 46 47 and so on they are the one who sell their land s to israelies for english pounds....!!
and now israel build a wall like berlin wall ..
people shout they are puting us in gettos. so who sell cement and sand to israelies to cheaper price to make the wall !!!a lebanise parlementers cement factory !!!.. very nice profit.
They built a wall to cage your people and u work for them and also for cheaper price...
Sorry but if you dont pitty your childeren nobody would. !!!!!
First of all palestions must think of their childrens future!!! first.
1945 46 47 and so on they are the one who sell their land s to israelies for english pounds....!!
and now israel build a wall like berlin wall ..
people shout they are puting us in gettos. so who sell cement and sand to israelies to cheaper price to make the wall !!!a lebanise parlementers cement factory !!!.. very nice profit.
They built a wall to cage your people and u work for them and also for cheaper price...
Sorry but if you dont pitty your childeren nobody would. !!!!!
ghostface killa - July 19, 2006 11:07 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (KOKORO @ Jul 18 2006, 11:07 AM) |
| and ısrael wıll take that 2 soldıers back no mather what wıll hapen ! even they are dead or alıve they wıll take them. on the way they beat hamas alıttle but . they never leave man to enemy. ı remeber 5 6 years ago palestıans catch 3 ısraelı soldıers ın cıvılıan chlotes and people kıll the by beatıng . and ısrael bomb gaza agaın. then to take that 3 soldıers dead body reasıed 600 prısoners. In the press conference one egyptıon reporter asked was thıs a good trade for 3 dead soldıers to 600 prısoners? and the spokes man saıd Palestıons must thınk thıs our one dead solder is = 200 lıvıng palestıons . and the egyptıon reported turned ın to red. they never leave any body behınd..... |
There's an example were they left a dozen of dead people behind after an attack by combined Jordanian and Palestinian soldiers. Don't remember the date and place.
PINDOS - July 19, 2006 12:05 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Very well stated Pindos!!! Welldone!!! Excellent thinking... Respect to the thieves and the criminals that take care of themselves and walk on bodies for that.. Hoorah!!! |
Morality didn't prevent the Micrasian Catastrophe, did it? Morality didn't prevent the occupation of northern Cyprus, did it? Morality didn't prevent 400 years of occupation, did it?
The funny thing of morality is that the other part must be willing to apply it too...
| QUOTE |
| I believe that with your logic we should respect and admire Turkey too for occuping Cyprous, exterminating Greeks, Armenians, and Kourds right? they surely learned the lesson we missed.. and they progress boltly there where all fasists have gonne before.. |
No, not to respect and admire Turkey, but we can learn from the lessons histority has tought us. That is that morality is nice, but you shouldn't count on it.
I rather see my fatherland being assertive and being able to defend its people from any threat, than become again a victim....
And to make this a bit more understanding: two kind of people exist, the ones who fu*k and the ones who get fu*ked. If you must choose between the two groups, the latter has less pain...
As for the Spartan legend, I grew up with the story of the little Spartan boy who stole a fox and was caught. The boy had hidden the fox under his clothing. Eventuallt he died of the bite wounds of the fox, because he remained silent when while the fox kept biting him under his clothing, because it was considered a shamefull thing to be caught stealing (not the stealing itself)..
To all my knowing this was a Spartan legend.
Besides that wasn't it a part of Spartan training to give little food to the children with the purpose to make them better in finding solutions (that is to steal or to hunt it)...
survive without food, by stealing of the
KOKORO - July 19, 2006 12:24 PM (GMT)
yes ın golan hıghts and south syrıa they left deads . but most comomly they take them back or pay for ıt.
DouriosYpnos - July 19, 2006 06:37 PM (GMT)
That was a story for presenting the way Spartans think and their hard training.. not that they encourage stealing as you stated before.. and being resourceful doesn't include stealing.. steling was a crime and a shameful act to all and has always been... especially to Spartans that were a bit more proud than the rest :)
I believe that you thought about morality and its results are a bit on the wrong direction.. beeing ethical doesn't mean that you'll be "f@cted"... there are just correct and wrong ways to do things.. and there are ways for having results when you're right without stepping on others, even if they don't understand...
Anyway, even if you're right on something, when you fall to the level of the one beeing wrong you also lose... it is not only a matter of beeing right that is important, what is even more important is how you will persue and claim your rights..
When you try to impose your views to anyone, even if your views are right, or aquire something that you need by steeling it, you are acting in a wrong way..
@Kokoro
Selling your land to someone doens't give that someone the right to come and claim more land from you or declare a state out of the land that he bought.. if that is the case then since latetly many Greeks bought land in Turkey we should name it Greek teritory and solve also all the problems we have this way :)
@Lord
I can understand the point you and Pindos try to make.. but i absolutely disagree with it.. acting this way doesn't proove that you're smart nor produses actual results.. it actually ends in more troubles cause if you live and rule by force, then you will be treated by force too.. you don't gain respect, you gain enemies and headaches.. and Israel lives this for decades now.. and it's a result of its actions... if they really wanted to solve the problem they could have done it long time ago.. but they don't care about solving it, they care about doing whatever they want..
I've been in Israel twice too.. i know many Israelies, i've worked with them, i also like many of those guys (and i didn't meet anyone that i didn't like actually) but this doesn't make their actions justifiable or correct.. many Israelies also believe the same.. you know who are the most fanatic and war happy of them? those Orthodox Jews with the black clothes that don't even serve in the army because for them there is no state of Israel since the messia hasn't come yet.. but they get 3000 euro per month from that state they don't accept just for sitting and studing the Torah.. and offcourse they pay no tax also because of the Messiah :doubt:
I believe that you thought about morality and its results are a bit on the wrong direction.. beeing ethical doesn't mean that you'll be "f@cted"... there are just correct and wrong ways to do things.. and there are ways for having results when you're right without stepping on others, even if they don't understand...
Anyway, even if you're right on something, when you fall to the level of the one beeing wrong you also lose... it is not only a matter of beeing right that is important, what is even more important is how you will persue and claim your rights..
When you try to impose your views to anyone, even if your views are right, or aquire something that you need by steeling it, you are acting in a wrong way..
@Kokoro
Selling your land to someone doens't give that someone the right to come and claim more land from you or declare a state out of the land that he bought.. if that is the case then since latetly many Greeks bought land in Turkey we should name it Greek teritory and solve also all the problems we have this way :)
@Lord
I can understand the point you and Pindos try to make.. but i absolutely disagree with it.. acting this way doesn't proove that you're smart nor produses actual results.. it actually ends in more troubles cause if you live and rule by force, then you will be treated by force too.. you don't gain respect, you gain enemies and headaches.. and Israel lives this for decades now.. and it's a result of its actions... if they really wanted to solve the problem they could have done it long time ago.. but they don't care about solving it, they care about doing whatever they want..
I've been in Israel twice too.. i know many Israelies, i've worked with them, i also like many of those guys (and i didn't meet anyone that i didn't like actually) but this doesn't make their actions justifiable or correct.. many Israelies also believe the same.. you know who are the most fanatic and war happy of them? those Orthodox Jews with the black clothes that don't even serve in the army because for them there is no state of Israel since the messia hasn't come yet.. but they get 3000 euro per month from that state they don't accept just for sitting and studing the Torah.. and offcourse they pay no tax also because of the Messiah :doubt:
D.E.A - July 19, 2006 09:19 PM (GMT)
Yeah Israel fights everyone when is confronted but if i knew that the strongest player on the planet would help me by all means necessary then hell yeah i would do whatever i wouldlike(oti mou kapnize h tsoutsou greek speaking) that makes me uber respectable!! The fact is They invade another sovereign country,instead of bombing military targets they bomb cities and the country's infrastructure in general.They don't just bomb it they decimate it..They hold other countries in a "hostage" condition due tue the existence of nuclear weapons "donated" by their big brother that US.They invade Palestine and kill her civilians for soooo many years and noone says nothing except for some UN(US's little harlot- to poutanaki ton ellinisti) condeming decisions...Ofcourse Israel wont give a deadman's shit for UN...Ok they won the 60day war and yom kipur Being huuuuuuuugely helped by the US always by the US!!!Us President dares speak of israely self defence when it's israel that helds captive/hostage the wholw middle east!! I wonder if israel stopped behaving so bulliyng and let Palestine free if the Arab world would still so much hate isreal...
I hope from the deepest depths of my heart that Iran builds Nuclear wepons and wipe out Isreal unless they behave like the rest of the "civilized" world...
Someone said that he wishes that Hellas may never face an opponent like hamas etc...Well if Hellas ever behave like Israel does, then i hope they teach us the same lesson!
And as a Hellenik saying says...Oti sperneis tha theriseis! You reap what you sow...
DAMN THE BASTARDS!!!!! :Cursing: :Cursing:
I hope from the deepest depths of my heart that Iran builds Nuclear wepons and wipe out Isreal unless they behave like the rest of the "civilized" world...
Someone said that he wishes that Hellas may never face an opponent like hamas etc...Well if Hellas ever behave like Israel does, then i hope they teach us the same lesson!
And as a Hellenik saying says...Oti sperneis tha theriseis! You reap what you sow...
DAMN THE BASTARDS!!!!! :Cursing: :Cursing:
KOKORO - July 20, 2006 05:50 AM (GMT)
Buying a land wont be a problem if it is peaceful causes. but if palestinians sell land to people and these people start to form small vilages and put armed guards around them started to shoot at you ..
and still you continue seling them land !! that is acepting what will hapen to you in the future.
day tıme shouting dieee israleisss siyonists
at night sell them food and bread and land ..
so they deserve
Lord - July 20, 2006 08:08 AM (GMT)
Excample////
Skopie...our beloved neighbor...creates a milizia...called..Macedonia liberation army...
They terrorize the northern borders of greece...
so...
some day...the take two greeks soldiers...wiythout any reason as prisoners...
WHAT do you think greece would do...? Or should do..?
dont ask me you know the answer allready...
Skopie...our beloved neighbor...creates a milizia...called..Macedonia liberation army...
They terrorize the northern borders of greece...
so...
some day...the take two greeks soldiers...wiythout any reason as prisoners...
WHAT do you think greece would do...? Or should do..?
dont ask me you know the answer allready...
D.E.A - July 20, 2006 05:47 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Lord @ Jul 20 2006, 10:08 AM) |
| Excample//// Skopie...our beloved neighbor...creates a milizia...called..Macedonia liberation army... They terrorize the northern borders of greece... so... some day...the take two greeks soldiers...wiythout any reason as prisoners... WHAT do you think greece would do...? Or should do..? dont ask me you know the answer allready... |
That's quite different...Actions differ from condition to condition...
Lord - July 21, 2006 11:00 AM (GMT)
Same contission...
If they would have a milizia...or supported a milizia...like Hizbolah...which would be a continiouing thread towards our own people...
I would like to see ..the greek artillerie bombing the shit out of them...
But we greeks would propably...wanted to run to hague to solve the fuckin problem...instead of defending our rights...
If they would have a milizia...or supported a milizia...like Hizbolah...which would be a continiouing thread towards our own people...
I would like to see ..the greek artillerie bombing the shit out of them...
But we greeks would propably...wanted to run to hague to solve the fuckin problem...instead of defending our rights...
D.E.A - July 21, 2006 08:49 PM (GMT)
Dear lord the difference between Hellas and Israel is that Hellas doesn't occupy foreign teritories..That's the difference i've been talking about.
Now if they dare make a militia and terrorize(how are they going to do it?) the Hellenik population of northern Hellas the next thing they'll see, will be me on top their homes,scorching "their" lands...I am perfectly clear i guess huh?
Now if they dare make a militia and terrorize(how are they going to do it?) the Hellenik population of northern Hellas the next thing they'll see, will be me on top their homes,scorching "their" lands...I am perfectly clear i guess huh?
PINDOS - July 22, 2006 09:17 AM (GMT)
You made yourself clear D.E.A..
However one question remains: When you will climb on top of their homes with friends would this be a self-coordinated action or will the Greek government coordinate this action?
Based on the last 60 years I guess that you would act on your own (with friends or people with the same need to defend our nation), while our political leaders lacking the will to defend our freedom (in the contrast to the Israeli's) try to find a diplomatical solution and then mock who should be blaimed: Was this action a result of the governments actions or was it the result of the opposition's actions back when they made up the government...
I didn't idealize the Israeli-Palestine conflict. Who is right and who is wrong? To be honest I don't give a shit. Do you think the rest of the world gives a shit in the Greco-Turko conflict, or the Skopja-Greko conflict, or the Kurdisch-Turkish conflict? No, it comes to their agenda when their interests are in danger. It might not be moral, but it is reality...
My conclusion is that if we want to be truelly free, we should be able to maintain this freedom. This is only possible if we are strong enough to defend ourselves and to be truelly able to make our own decissions...
I am not war-loving, nor militaristic, nor extremestic. I am not a nationalist, I am not really religious.
I hope we never have to fight a war, but it is good to be prepared to fight one, just to keep the nations with more aggresive ideas on a save distance.
Who said the cold war era, was a bad period? Both sides knew, that if war was started, both sides would be fuc*ed.
However one question remains: When you will climb on top of their homes with friends would this be a self-coordinated action or will the Greek government coordinate this action?
Based on the last 60 years I guess that you would act on your own (with friends or people with the same need to defend our nation), while our political leaders lacking the will to defend our freedom (in the contrast to the Israeli's) try to find a diplomatical solution and then mock who should be blaimed: Was this action a result of the governments actions or was it the result of the opposition's actions back when they made up the government...
I didn't idealize the Israeli-Palestine conflict. Who is right and who is wrong? To be honest I don't give a shit. Do you think the rest of the world gives a shit in the Greco-Turko conflict, or the Skopja-Greko conflict, or the Kurdisch-Turkish conflict? No, it comes to their agenda when their interests are in danger. It might not be moral, but it is reality...
My conclusion is that if we want to be truelly free, we should be able to maintain this freedom. This is only possible if we are strong enough to defend ourselves and to be truelly able to make our own decissions...
I am not war-loving, nor militaristic, nor extremestic. I am not a nationalist, I am not really religious.
I hope we never have to fight a war, but it is good to be prepared to fight one, just to keep the nations with more aggresive ideas on a save distance.
Who said the cold war era, was a bad period? Both sides knew, that if war was started, both sides would be fuc*ed.
Thermopyles - July 22, 2006 08:09 PM (GMT)
Lord, your paradigm is not very accurate. The whole reason Hezballah exists and has popular support in the first place is because of an 18 year occupation. I agree that the recent Hezballah action was unprovoked, and Israel was leaving them alone, but to distroy civi infrastructure on a national scale is not only over-reacting, it is criminal. I sure you've seen the state of civi infrastructure in Lebanon in the last few days...
OTOH, perhaps Hezballah did what they did to try and help free palestinian prisoners that were also illigaly/unjustly captured by Israel. So when looked at from that perspective, not only is a prisoner exchange logical, but Hezballah's capturing of the soldiers is also justified and to be expected.
And where before the official Lebanise gov and army (lol) was neutral and understanding towards Israel, they were targeted anyway and they are now with Hezballah and against Israel...
OTOH, perhaps Hezballah did what they did to try and help free palestinian prisoners that were also illigaly/unjustly captured by Israel. So when looked at from that perspective, not only is a prisoner exchange logical, but Hezballah's capturing of the soldiers is also justified and to be expected.
And where before the official Lebanise gov and army (lol) was neutral and understanding towards Israel, they were targeted anyway and they are now with Hezballah and against Israel...
D.E.A - July 22, 2006 08:22 PM (GMT)
Well i guess that the Hellenik gov will try to end things the diplomatic way....On the other hand a gov can very easily be overthrown by the people...Never forget the power that the people has...If they didn't give a deadmans shit for how things are going around here they wouldn't be involved sooo much...They would let us be...
PINDOS - July 23, 2006 06:46 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Lord, your paradigm is not very accurate. The whole reason Hezballah exists and has popular support in the first place is because of an 18 year occupation. I agree that the recent Hezballah action was unprovoked, and Israel was leaving them alone, but to distroy civi infrastructure on a national scale is not only over-reacting, it is criminal. I sure you've seen the state of civi infrastructure in Lebanon in the last few days... |
Exactly, when Barak made the decission to leave all occupied territories, Hezbollah lost all its "rights" to attack Israel. Or are you claiming that Haifa is an occupied territory (let's forget that the majority living is Israeli)?
Besides that the Libanese government dislikes Hezbollah too. They just can't do the job, somehow it is conviniant to them that Israel decided to attack them. If the Libanese army attacked Hezbollah it would trigger another civilwar.
Hezbollah never was a freedom-fighting organization, unlike the PLO. Hezbollah always was a fundamentalist shiit organization..
Thermopyles - July 23, 2006 07:22 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Exactly, when Barak made the decission to leave all occupied territories, Hezbollah lost all its "rights" to attack Israel. Or are you claiming that Haifa is an occupied territory (let's forget that the majority living is Israeli)? |
OTOH, perhaps Hezballah did what they did to try and help free palestinian prisoners that were also illigaly/unjustly captured by Israel. So when looked at from that perspective, not only is a prisoner exchange logical, but Hezballah's capturing of the soldiers is also justified and to be expected.
| QUOTE |
| Besides that the Libanese government dislikes Hezbollah too |
And where before the official Lebanise gov and army (lol) was neutral and understanding towards Israel, they were targeted anyway and they are now with Hezballah and against Israel...
Lord - July 24, 2006 08:17 AM (GMT)
Pindos i agree with you 100% here...
also i want to add...
We are forgetting the fact ...that some months ago...(maybe years) the Syrian Army who is actually the Hizbolah greatest supporter...haid to leave Lebanon...(for many well known reasons..)
Something which in my eyes shows that the israeli were behind even this move....(that the synomotic skepsis...)
But even if they werent behind this move...(to opress the syrians to leave..)
The managed very well to catch the time to solve the hizbolah problem one and for all..(and here is my admiring...that they catch the opurtunity at the minute..in there policy...)
The hizboalh remaind the state inside the state...
No lebanese was satisfied with this fact...
(something similar happend decades ago in Jordan...were the palaistinians...even tryed to overthrough the same jordan GoV...etc etc....
What happendn there actually?
The same Jordanians...kicked them out of there state...even with the help of the Israelis...
we have to forgett the morality in such conflicts and look up the reality...
The reality is...
My Nation has the power to remain the super power of the region...?
Than it acts like this...The same history from ancient times.. when you are talking actually with fanatics...I dont see actually a dyplomatic way to solve things...
In my eyes...i see a right in the reaction of Israel...and iam continiouing to admire the Israelis..for there reality decission...because they have the balls to do so...
This dosent mean that i admire or support the Israeli policy about discrimination...or the policy in foreighn matters...
but admire there....powerfull decission...to protect what they thing its theres...
I hope all of you get my point...This dosent make me to a Isareli lover..nor supporter...and like Pindos stated...I give a shit about them...
Now about the paradeigm..of skopje..
I could say Tsams..or anyone else...
remember in the greek history...the Bulgarian Komitat...and there terror...in Norhern Greece and especially in the aera of Macedonia...
How did we react?
For shure not like the New greeks...of today no?
we f***ed them up...every were we could...and everybody who standed against us....1909 till the second Balkan war we hunted down everybody who was antihellene...(and telling the trueth...? very right we did...)
wHY?
simple because we could...
That is called Real politik..
and thank God back than...we haid politicians with balls...and views...
My 2 cents
also i want to add...
We are forgetting the fact ...that some months ago...(maybe years) the Syrian Army who is actually the Hizbolah greatest supporter...haid to leave Lebanon...(for many well known reasons..)
Something which in my eyes shows that the israeli were behind even this move....(that the synomotic skepsis...)
But even if they werent behind this move...(to opress the syrians to leave..)
The managed very well to catch the time to solve the hizbolah problem one and for all..(and here is my admiring...that they catch the opurtunity at the minute..in there policy...)
The hizboalh remaind the state inside the state...
No lebanese was satisfied with this fact...
(something similar happend decades ago in Jordan...were the palaistinians...even tryed to overthrough the same jordan GoV...etc etc....
What happendn there actually?
The same Jordanians...kicked them out of there state...even with the help of the Israelis...
we have to forgett the morality in such conflicts and look up the reality...
The reality is...
My Nation has the power to remain the super power of the region...?
Than it acts like this...The same history from ancient times.. when you are talking actually with fanatics...I dont see actually a dyplomatic way to solve things...
In my eyes...i see a right in the reaction of Israel...and iam continiouing to admire the Israelis..for there reality decission...because they have the balls to do so...
This dosent mean that i admire or support the Israeli policy about discrimination...or the policy in foreighn matters...
but admire there....powerfull decission...to protect what they thing its theres...
I hope all of you get my point...This dosent make me to a Isareli lover..nor supporter...and like Pindos stated...I give a shit about them...
Now about the paradeigm..of skopje..
I could say Tsams..or anyone else...
remember in the greek history...the Bulgarian Komitat...and there terror...in Norhern Greece and especially in the aera of Macedonia...
How did we react?
For shure not like the New greeks...of today no?
we f***ed them up...every were we could...and everybody who standed against us....1909 till the second Balkan war we hunted down everybody who was antihellene...(and telling the trueth...? very right we did...)
wHY?
simple because we could...
That is called Real politik..
and thank God back than...we haid politicians with balls...and views...
My 2 cents
KOKORO - July 24, 2006 01:23 PM (GMT)
turkish navy in lebanon to take the 1200 turkish citizens .
here some photos
saturn sent them before me so i sent this 3 only B)
here some photos
saturn sent them before me so i sent this 3 only B)
PINDOS - July 24, 2006 01:46 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| OTOH, perhaps Hezballah did what they did to try and help free palestinian prisoners that were also illigaly/unjustly captured by Israel. So when looked at from that perspective, not only is a prisoner exchange logical, but Hezballah's capturing of the soldiers is also justified and to be expected. |
This view is expressed many times in the papers. As is the view that Israel reacted because they wanted to free the captured soldiers.
Is this truly the reality? What is the "aitia" and what is the "aformh"? I can't find the English words..
To be honest I don't believe that Israel reacted because they wanted to free the captured soldiers. The real policy is that they want to get rid of Hezbollah. If you read the latest developments it isn't if Hezbollah will leave south-Lebanon, but when and who will fill the gap (NATO? UN? EU-peacekeepers?). The captured soldiers weren't part of the strategy, but when they were captured the Israelis adapted a new strategy. That's why I admire them, they are dynamic (or assertive or aggressive if you prefer to call it that way)...
(in contrast to modern Greece. Where we have lost many battles because we remained to static. We keep on thinking too long based on the past.
Eg. "the battle for the name of Makedonia". Let's be honest we lost the battle. Everyone outside Greece speaks of Macedonia, in stead of FYROM, Skopje or whatever. Why? Because we remained fixated on the historical facts, while the whole damn world didn't cared more or less about the history of that part....)
In the same sense the Arab nations have adopted the same tactics as Israel...
Who truly believes Hezbollah or Hamas desire peace? Their sole reason of existence lies in the Israeli-Arab conflict. If a true peace was reached they would not have any reason of existence. The only peace these organizations desire, is a peace reached after the extermination of Israel... The Hezbollah leaders when referring to Israel always speak about occupied Palestina.
This whole self-imposed doctrine, shows their true nature...
As for the capturing of the soldiers. I don't believe the reason behind it, was to demand the freedom of captured Arabs. The needed a justification for their existence. Perhaps even a way to shift the attention from domestic problems (in the case of Hamas: the power struggling with the PLO) towards Israel...
(In the actions of Hamas/Hezbollah I see the same tactics used by Turkey. Every now and then they start a fight with Greece. And somehow the "fight" always starts at moments when the domestic front is very uneasy...).
I understand the points expressed by Thermopyles, Dourios Ypnos and D.E.A.. And they give many good arguments. And to be honest I sympathize, as you do, for the underdog who tries to ensure his freedom and its sovereignty.
And to be honest both sides are using the same tactics and strategies. Sometimes one wins and one looses. The bomb-attacks was used by both sides during the creation of Israel (post 1946 era), both sides tried to fool the world and obtain nuclear bombs, both sides committed crimes against humanity...
In what I might defer is that I don't believe in happy end stories (Lord uses the word morality and sais the same thing, if not mistaken). The one who is good, who is a saint, doesn't necessarily win.
That's why I want to see my nation ready and able to fight anyone (even the lowest moralistic scum on the world) to make sure it's citizens can live in freedom.
As I expressed earlier I believe Israel succeeds in that, and that's why I admire them. They have understood that on a nation’s level, friendships don’t exist (some claim USA is their friend and ally, however USA has also supported Jordan and Egypt. Israel has bombed a CIA-ship, during the Jom Kippur war).
I hope that Greece one day reaches the same level in ability to defend herself against all threats in the region. Israel could and has fought several Arab nations during wars. Although I believe in our potential, I must admit that we haven't reached the same level of ability (can we truly defend our nation from all surrounding nations simultaneously).
And finally to end this very long statement of my opinion. Many times I have heard fellow people complaining about our allies who betrayed us. The Great Powers betrayed us, that's why we lost Asia Minor. The Latin-nations betrayed us and sacked Constantinople... In my opinion the ones who must be blamed are we! Who made plans, tactics, judgments, assumptions on the help of others.... The best plan is the one in which you only count on your own strength and in which the whole world is your foe. This way thing can go better than planned, but will never go more wrong...