http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=47991

HAH!!!

You think!!!

According to a renounced physist mr. Liakopoulos the Hellenes discovered the Americas first!!!!! :Cursing: :baeh:

Spare me...It is widely known that many civs before the spaniards knew about americas they had just not named the continent because they didn't know it was something "new"

Confirmed is only that the Wikings actually discovered the "american continent"....before the Spaniards...
But after seeing a docu...(more a search) by National Geographic...there were rumors that even the Chinese discovered and actually land on the today US soil...
But after making researches (serious ones)...they proved that the chinese couldnt ever make this trip...at this times...(with some enormous big chinese vessels...etc etc)...

In fact, the first peoples to enter North America were central Asian tribes that crossed over from Siberia and central Asia via the frozen Bering strait some 37,000 years ago.



If you note, the native American Indians have similar traits and lifestyles to their Turkic/Mongolian cousins on the other side of the Pacific. Their Shamanistic beliefs were very similar to the Turkic Tengrism religion.

As Lord also mentioned, Ottoman navy and pirate ships had been operating in the regions between the shores of Iceland and Newfoundland following old Viking routes during the decades after Colombus's discovery. However it is believed Piri Reis had been exploring in the South Atlantic at the time of his map showing the coastline of Antarctica and the Amazon.

As for the original article posted above, just heard news that Admiral Karahanoglu of the TN has ordered an armada on stand by to set sail to the Caribbean. Mission: to lay claim to "Turkler ve Kayiklar adasi". He was heard whispering ("Damn, wish I had that LPD now...")

Efeler...
The Turkish tribes you call...were mostly known as the first Humans who crossed the bering street...
i cant recall them beeing called turkish tribes... ;)

But you know what would been nice...
a thread about Pieri Reis Pasha...

any more detailed info...?


Thanks

dont missunderstand me...

here is a articel...were you will see...that alot of others pop up...to be the dicovers of America...
among them even the Irish and the Celts...and so on...

Dear Lord,

"Turk" was essentially one of the tribes that appeared or branched out from the overall steppe cultures of Central Asia over 5,000 years ago. It is believed the "Asena" or "Ashina" tribe originating from the mountain/forest region along the northern border of present day China chose this name "Turk". Anyways, essentially these peoples of this region all had the same descendants, the ones who crossed over the Bering strait millenia before, and are all related (Altaic people).

As for Piri Reis, yes if someone can post a nice article... I had heard that there was a 2nd part to his famous map which cannot be found...

ok ok Efeler...lol

In that case...iam shure you have see some Docus...(especially national geo. and BBC)
so ...
to follow this Altaic...and Pan turcic...ideology...
i have to say...
all human kind started from Black Africa... :D
were all of us...(except the greeks..because we cam from out of space...R4OFL) were Brothers...
can you follow me...? :P

now ....i want this Pieri Reis thread...
iam allready started searching...

Actual Piri Reis's map of 1513:




Showing islands of the Carribean and even major rivers/mountains of the Amazon basin and the coastline of Antarctica. He even drew pictures of the animal life and natives found in this region. Take into account, the Europeans had not explored these continents yet.

LOL!!!

Come on guys, what will be next? Let's see... Turks were the very first humans created by God, or should it be that Adam and Eve were of Turkish origin? Ok, I got it, dinosaurs were Turkish pets... :D :D :applause: :applause: :applause:

aT FIRST I THOUGHT THAT THIS TOPIC WAS kinda joking....Hey yo efeler!! Did any of your most renounced historians tell you that turks appeared between 5-7 century as not a race...They later on were called seltzuk turks or what ever...They were considered as good warriors ONLY...And ofcourse not even equals with the mighty mongols.....You undterstand? You were mongols and you werenot even considered as one of the tribes....That's why tamerlane in 14h-15th century massacred you with no hesitation...COmprende bro? Till 1000 you were less than nothing......
Forgive me for being irritating once again but i cannot stand "historyless" nations speaking of their greatness....

Perhaps you can drink a cold glass of water before posting then...

In case you didn't pick it up, I was making mockery of the original article in my first post:

However some of the points you brought up were, I'm afraid, inaccurate and bordering on ignorant. Your timeline for instance is, I'm assuming, the time the first Turks entered Anatolia which was more or less 8-9 centuries. Perhaps this is what you meant. Turks were well around centuries before that in Central Asia (as even your scholars so lovingly proclaim)... Likewise so was the Turkish language, which is of the Altaic family yet different then Mongolian.

Incidently most of my readings are from neutral sources and not Turkish historians. One good book I've been reading is by author Carter Vaughn Findley called "The Turks in world history." Likewise I adamently avoid Greek historians as I probably would come out believing even slice bread was invented by the Greeks...

Do you mean sliced bread was not invented by the Greeks? That is not what I was taught at school :dunno:

Anyway from what I remember and without searching for info the map was left to Piri Reis by his uncle who got it from a Spanish (?) prisoner.

Did the spaniard wrote the map in Arabic or did he prepare the map on demand of Piri Reis' uncle.

The Spaniard prisoner that gave the map to Piri's uncle, wrote it after the instructions of his Turkish inmate, who was once a member of the mighty crew that discovered America... :D :D :D

Thanks, this solves everything Hades :lol:

First: D.E.A nice s*** you posted...very clever...smart guy...

Second:
There were new founds of human bones in south-america which pre-date the ice-ages...so there is the thesis that there were humans before the colonization over the bering-street.

Of course there were humans inhabiting the continent long, much long before its discovery... :friendship:

Well i guess that if we think that once all of the continents were unified then it explains how humans got sooo widely spread...Then again i think that we should reconsider the origins species huh?

Now as far as the things i mentioned the timeline i used is not accurate because i din't search for exact dates but from what i remembered...No i don't read Hellenik books as far as Turkish matters concerned....For obvious reasons...
i have learned that the lesser someone feels the louder he speaks....

In short:

Obviously not in Arabic. Copied into Ottoman Turkish subsequently.

More detailed info here

I couldn't resist posting in here...

Piri Reis maps have nothing to do with his travels or knowledge that he actually had discovered or even used.. he just found them and he was smart enough to preserve them...

The map is much older than Piri Reis or Colombus or any other explorer that cliams to have found America (that was known to the Ancient Greeks as "Esperia", the land where the sun sets in free translation..)

The map contains details of an ice free Antarctic (that was much before 6000BC) and although it's containing latitudes and longitudes at right angles in a grid, it is copied from an earlier map that was projected using spherical trigonometry. Those that made the map should knew that the Earth was round and they had knowledge of its true circumference to within 50 miles.
Much of this knowledge was not available then and even for centuries later..

You mean ancient Greeks knew America or I misunderstood you.

Ancient Greeks knew about America.. it's existance for sure.. possibly they had traveled there too (not the Greeks of 200BC-1000BC but Hellens before them)
Offcourse i don't mean that they had discovered it in the context of our conversation.. i don't actually thing that there was a dicovery at all.. just the ability to reach America again after a period of inability and lost/covered knowledge...

The knowledge of it's existance to the Hellens (and others) comes from much older times, not necessarily Hellenic but quite possibly Hellenic too... it depends on what we consider as the originators of Hellens and other proto-Hellenic civilisations as well as how we interpret mythology...

We can have such a discussion on previous lost civilisation and points in our History that prove completely diferent origins and routes than the ones we learn at school (and mainstream history books) but i'm not willing to start such a conversation right now since i see no move from cameleon to come front and apologise for his actions.. he just ignores the last weeks events and hides...

I'm not going to tolerate or excuse that and if it doesn't change i'm going to leave this forum pretty soon... i'm just waiting for Lord to come on line to have a talk with him first.. :)

So the irony here that Turks discovered America, came out to be Greeks discovered America? Offf... I don't know any other nations that so esentially resemble each other.

I read somewhere that in one of the greek islands was found a very improved device for finding your route by observing the stars, I don't know the word in english. Maybe Greeks did sail to America before ages. Why not. Where did the Greek lobby come from. Maybe they were there since the ancient times. :P

I also heard that it was the greek scientist Atmious of Parka that came up with the theory that the sliced bread always falls down on the butter side. :)

By the way, assuming we accept the ridiculous notation that a continent with thousands years of human existence can be "discovered", I think Lord is right that all the places to be discovered were either discovered by "africans" or their descents.

Noble African nation, I bow before your millions year of history and advances. May you long live, and your descents reach the stars.

ah re Saladin...I love you for such comments... :roflmao:

i think the phoenicians could have done it since they also circle africa and even came to the british islands...and that ca. 600 B.C.

Here a small text from wikipedia. Its good for a small input:

Well the actual question should have been if someone actually discovered America modus.. and sorry but i don't think that Hellens and Turks have that much in common... infact we are competely different when it comes to roots, history and values.. we look similar now just because we coexist in this region for 500+ years and Hellenic values have degrated alot...

The device baris mentioned is the Antikithira machine.. it is practically a very sofisticated device that calculates the movement of planets and stars and uses engineering equipment (differential gears) that were "discovered" (just like America) several centures later... but this device was not used for navigation baris.. it was also overkill for something like that.. all ancient naval power were using the position of the stars for navigation but with much simpler devises that exist even today...

This African origin story now is something that i personaly completely disagree for many different reasons and based on many different sources and facts..
What i agree with is that "knowledge" must have been preserved in North Africa after the last great catastrophy and fluristed again from there to Crete, Greece and East Mediteranian.. Crete is the link to the past and the now actually... and Crete is the origin of all Aegean, East Mediteranian (including Phoenecians), and Greek civilisations..

Offcourse, sparks of "Knowledge" survived in other areas too except North Africa and gave rise to other civilisations in Far East and America... that's why we found rather advanced people there too and we still find ruins of structures like pyramids all over the planet...

I believe that man exist on this planes for more than we are tought and civilisation is not something evolving for the first time... Ancient Hellenic (and not only) scripts also point to this direction...

I suggest following experiment (seriously), we apply (both greeks and turks) one of the genetic genealogy sites. If you want, only the ones who believe they are poor in blood do this. Then we find out how much our anchestors differ. This will once and for all the answer the question of how much we are different (assuming of course, you accept we are culturally similar at this age). Of course, there were some turkish scientific study that says our genes are the same but that was rejected by Greeks (don't remember the reference though).

I don't quite get what you suggest saladin.. and i'm not talking about beeing "pure in blood" but about beeing different in history, roots, values and beliefs..

I believe that it is more than obvious and doesn't need any investigation the fact that we have different origins, thus different ancestors.. we populate this area for more than 7000 years (according to some sources more than 12000 years) and you appeared around here some 700 years ago more or less.. obviously we have different roots..

We have a history of communities, architecture, agriculture, naval activity, politics, science, philosophy, arts, etc... your ancestors were nomads from the east that settled in this land recently, historicly speaking, and engaged to the previous activities in the last centuries.. am i wrong on that?

Having similar attitude in our days doesn't mean that we have many things in common.. actually in our days many nations of not that close proximity can have similar attitudes and habits.. i.e. you could say that for Italians, Israelis, Cypriots, Libanese, Syrians, Southern French, Spanish and Portogues.. hell i found similarities to us even with Hungarians, Rumanians and Yugoslavians..
Todays economy and religion beliefs also dictate "common" behaviour to most of us and what actually differentiate nations is only their geographical location and that mainly because of the weather...

What all nations have in common today is a tendency to forget and distort history.. and that makes us come closer... it's a part of the game of control that requires people of no national consiousness and no individuality but this is beyond the scope of this thread i'm affraid...

I also have a question to all muslims.. i was watching a documentary recently about Jerusalem and in that i've seen some of the images on the walls of the Muslim temple with the golden roof, don't remember it's name Al-Aqsa or something like this... what surprised me was that all "angel" like creatures that took the prophet to heaven appear to have Chinise characteristics and even dressing.. how come? what is the connection?

The Antikythera mechanism is an astrolabe.

http://www.matthew.co.uk/home/help.html

Geneticists are quite certain of a single African origin for the human species. With regard to genetic similarities and differences, Greek and Turks are very similar, especially the western Turks. Geneticists calculate the Central Asian component of todays Turks to between below 9% and 30%, depending on the study. An average of 20% sounds quite reasonable. The remaining 80% coming mostly from the ancient Anatolian populations.
Greeks and Anatolians were and still are very similar. The big bulk of the Greek's genes came from Anatolia or via Anatolia to the Balkans in the Palaeolithic and Neolithic, long before the ethnogenesis of the Greeks. There have been countless backmigrations to Anatolia from the Balkans both in prehistoric and historic times. That is why we look similar. History and genetics only confirm what we already have seen but may not want to know.

Crete certainly represents the first civilisation on European soil but let us not forget that Crete was uninhabited until the neolithic and the first settlements appeared after the arrival of agriculture around 6,000 years ago. Agriculture came to Crete from Anatolia. The olive tree especially came from southern Anatolia or northern Syria.

Claims of a Greek nation 7,000 or 12,000 ago are only claims and without any evidence. So far we can only talk of Greek speakers 4,000 years ago. In classical times, the not yet Hellenised remnants of the pre-Greeks were very much still in existence. In Crete they were called Eteocretans.

I'm afraid that your info Artemidoros are completely wrong.. the Antikythera Mechanism is not an astrolabe.. it is something like a celestrial calendar.. it has nothing to do with astrolabs (that are used for navigation)

You can find several info for the mechanism in the following link and if you google it even more..

http://www.giant.net.au/users/rupert/kythera/kythera5.htm

Your story about the genes and Crete is the mainstream sientific position.. i personaly disagree with that completely.. and there are evidence of Hellenic civilisation much before 4000BC (The Kastoria Lake settlement that also has a scrip older than 5000BC, the Caves in Peloponise that also have tools and rocks that come from the island of Milos and are dated back to 7000BC, Aegean island findings with letters on them dating before 4000BC, etc)

Maistream theories have many flows... Ancient scripts and mythology also describe things that contradict mainstream theories completely.. i personaly take them more seriously than mainstream archeology that proves itself wrong day by day.. Crete was the origin of middle east civilisation and not the other way around (as well as Crete was partly the origin of the Myceneans.. Minoas was the Grandfather of Menelaos and Agamemnon.. Hommer clearly states that, as well as, that when Helen was taken Menelaos was in Crete to attend the funeral of his Grandfather..)

Most Ancient scripts have been distorted in order to support theories like the Phoenecian alphabet and the homosexuality of Ancient Hellens (absolutely false both of them) while many other scripts where just labeled as "fiction" because mainstream archeology & science couldn't support or understand them (they were also distroying the existing theories)

In Ancient Hellenic scripts you will also find alot "mystical" knowledge (that was open to all back them in the Elefsinia but none ever wrote clearly about them).. references to events that could make all mankind history collapse and posible explanation of our roots.. not only the Hellenic but human in general.. (and i'm not talking about Liakopoulos theories but about actual ancient texts)

I would suggest to read "Argonaytika" by Apollonios Rodios, Apollodoros texts about creation of men by Athena and Yfestos, ta "Isis & Osyris/Peri tou E tou en Delfis/Peri tou en ti selini fainomenou prosopou" by Ploutarxos, Kritias by Plato, Dionysiaca by Nonnos and definently Hommer (not the crap from Virgilios we learn at a school).. you'll find things you wouldn't expect.. :)

Offcourse Ancient texts are not enough for the theories i have in mind but they are a very good start for anyone interested.. astronomy, Hellenic language, mathematics, sacret geometry and arithmology, old metrics and units we still use but we don't know why can give a more clear "picture" that the history we learn is far from the real one and that our solar system is not that "stable" through time as we might think... also that man has more things in common with pigs than with apes.. ;)

Durios, it was not a simple seaman's astrolabe but it was used for tracking the position of celestial bodies. As such and according to the definition I provided, calling it an astrolabe gives more of an idea rather than calling it a "mechanism" or a "computer".
Of course it was not for finding your position in the Mediterranean, it was too elaborate for that. We do know though that Greek atronomers used the concept of meridians and it could well have had a global perspective.

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/arti...ntikythera.html

I am not prepared to argue about it though since I do not know enough and we may never know exactly what they used it for anyway.

As for mainstream theories, there are certainly errors in them and even the theorists themselves do not claim they have all the answers. They do have some very conclusive evidence though. That is the scientific knowledge we currently possess. I am eagerly awaiting the enhancement of that knowledge rather than shift through mythological texts trying to arbitrarily separate fact from fiction. I am not saying we should discard the ancient texts, they can be very useful. Erich Schliemann found Troy based on Homer. On the other hand I am not about to embark on an expedition to find Atlantis. We should be very cautious and not bank on the absolute accuracy of ancient texts. Herodotus is considered the father of history and gave some great and truthful accounts of the ancient Scythians but he also wrote that the sperm of the Indians was black.

There is no conspiracy to elevate the Phoenician alphabet to something that it is not. Who on earth has found conclusive evidence of written speech in Kastoria that is 7,000 years old? Where is it? Same with the Greek islands, where is the script? And who has deciphered it and proved it was Greek?
I know about the Franchthi cave and the findings there. They prove sea travel for tuna fishing and obsidian. Yes, some of our ancestors travelled in the Aegean 9,000 years ago. Very early indeed but not unique. People crossed to Australia earlier than that and they never even developed a great civilisation.
And who says the people who lived in the Franchthi cave spoke Greek?

It is your prerogative to believe what you like but if you say humans are closer to pigs than apes, I think you should provide some sources. They may be theological (I sense some creationism here) and as such I will not accept them but at least I will know that we can not discuss the matter. If on the other hand you have any scientific evidence then I will gladly debate with you.

Artemidoros this conversation can take us too far away from the scope of this thread but i will answer to some extend to your reply...

First of all i'm not a fun of creationism and i'm not believig that Hellens were the first to bring civilisation or the first humans of earth...

I investigate as a hobby theories on our origin and our history (the human history) for several years now.. and i'm formulating theories by mixing knowledge from science, ancient scripts, facts and evidence that trouble historical theories, as well as, areas that people consider "mystical"...

I believe that the history of mankind is much older than what we learn.. that civilisation(s) exists for much longer and that follows cycles of development and distruction that bring us all to the start again.. our latest start was probably sometime between 7000BC and 10000BC, but before we were where we are now more or less... possibly more than now..

The reason behind my thought are many and if you are interested we can start another thread for that were we can discuss in details about it...

About mainstream science now, you should have in mind that it is heavily controled and not that accurate as you might believe.. also alternative theories have no space to move in the current scientific status quo.. that's why we never learn about them..
Science is also kinda "stolled" when progressing more than some people want it to progress and i'll give you an example on that.. i'm an Electical Engineer.. in the University we learned about Maxwell and the 4 equations of electomagnetics.. the truth is that Maxwell never stated 4 equation.. and they were not vector based.. what all of us learn (but never actually understand) is that another physisist names Oliver Heaviside wrote a redused version of the original equations that describe only electomagnetism...
Only when Quantum Mechanics appear people started understanding and using the original equations because the redused were not applicable anymore.. Maxwell was ahead of his age.. as many others..

Offcourse when we talk about evolution and history there theories are based mainly on speculations and assumsions.. the mainstream theories practically have so much base as the theories of Daineken and other pseutho-recerchers..

About the very old Hellenic scripts now i believe you can find info about the Kastoria lake settlement and the scipt that is dated to 5200BC if i'm not mistaken.. Hellenic language was using different forms in the past (linnear I & II) that have been proven to be Hellenic even if for decades mainstream science wanted the opposite.. in ancient mythical scripts also there are clear statements that people were writting letters...

Also ancient scripts are not to be taken as they are.. they are not discribing accurately events.. they are metaphoric also many of them.. but they provide hints.. lots of them..

And we are comming to the pigs... :)
Well i'm not the one saying it.. it's medicine.. the human and the pig embrios are identical up to the 6th month of pregnancy.. all transplants that a human can use and accept are from pigs and only from pigs.. from internal organs to skin.. our metabolism, digestion and blood are very similar too.. we suffer from similar diseases (actually all very deadly human virus are originating from apes that are immune to them) also 2 major relegions forbid eating pig.. do you think they do it because it is filthy?

Offcourse i'm not suggesting that we evolved from pigs.. what i suggest is that we actually didn't evolve from apes but that we were the product of a pig possibly) and something else..

As Apollodoros stated in the script discribing how Athena and Yfestos created the first man Erichthonios, when they came to Athens from Kifissida lake, after the cataclism:

"Ή Αθήνα εναποθέτει το γόνος...." "τοποθετεί το γόνος είς κύστην, καί εναποθέτει την κύστην εις πάνδροσον"

I believe you can read Greek, right?

We have indeed already strayed far from the original subject but I do not really think there is any more to say about the "Turkish discovery of America".
It just shows that Turks, like Greeks and many others, do make extravagant claims about the past. If the moderators see it fit they can split the thread.

I am glad you are not a creationist but on the other hand I can not understand how being a scientist yourself you can put Universities of the calibre of Oxford, Stanford and even our own Greek Universities in the same basket as charlatans.

Of course not all scientific theories are correct. And yes there are scientists who are ahead of their time. Darwin was disputed fiercely but what respected scientist of today continues to dispute him?
As I have already accepted there are important clues in ancient texts but only modern science can prove their significance. For example, we all know the mythical creation of Rome from descendants of the Trojan hero Aeneas. It was and still is considered a pure myth, created in order to give the then superpower a glorious past. Yet, modern genetics has shown an unexpected link between the mtDNA of several Etruscan female (possibly aristocratic) remains and the modern Turks. I am not entertaining the idea that the Etruscans came from Central Asia, although there is such a claim by some Turkic author. The genetic link has nothing to do with DNA associated with Central Asia anyway. But put Aeneas, DNA and the historical fact that the early kings of Rome were Etruscans together and you have a possible link.

The spread of agriculture to Europe has been well documented through archaeological findings and genetic research of plants. It is agriculture that created the surplus food needed for the creation of advanced civilisations. The first signs of plant cultivation and animal domestication take us back some 12,000 years to the Fertile Crescent.

http://www.agronomy.ucdavis.edu/gepts/pb14.../Monocdistr.gif

It took those farmers several thousand years to spread and advance to major civilizations. There were certainly "dark ages" in the history of civilizations but that is understood by the relative absence of archaelogical finds. It is not the opposite, meaning the absence of finds leads us to suspect the existence of a higher civilisation. Civilisation, like cough and love you can not hide.
In the years preceding the Greek ethnogenesis we have many important finds in Greece such as Sesklo and since you mentioned it Dispilio in Kastoria. Here from an excellent and well respected site:

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museums/..._Dispiliou.html

That was the level. And no mention of a script. Oh, I did find some info on it. From the Idryma Meizonos Ellhnismou and from Davlos magazine. One of them even claims it is Greek Linear A symbols :wall:
Linear A has NOT been deciphered. Linear B and Cypriot Linear have and have been found to be Mycenaean Greek. In spite the use of symbols from A in B, the sound of which is now known, A could not be deciphered with the assumption it is Greek. It just doesn't fit, leading to the conclusion it was not Greek. And no matter what Davlos says it remains undeciphered.

As for pigs and transplants the reason they are used is not genetic:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/596_xeno.html

Why are pigs used?

http://www.viewingspace.com/genetics_cultu...ard_piglets.htm

But pigs are not without problems:

http://www.mrmcmed.org/pigs.html

Here is a good 2-page article on the human-chimp genetic relation without getting too technical:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...himp_genes.html

With regards to Erichthonius I am not sure I understand your point. Yes, I can read Greek btw. The cult of Athena is thought by many to originate from Crete and perhaps she was originally a snake deity, hence Erechtheus and perhaps even Erichthonius were partly snake. Beyond that ... :doubt:

Ahhh.. Artemidoros you remind me a conversation we had with Kursaros a long time ago in this forum about Darwin and about lost civilisations... you actually sound alot like him (you must be young too, right?) pationet to support modern science and to consider anything lot labeled "scientific" by some institute as trush...

I'm sure you can find in the web many different links that state the one or the other theory and many of them will be signed by credible scientists.. credible scientists also in the middle ages claimed that earth was flat (even if Ancient Greeks had proved it wasn't), that Hommer was writting fictional stories, that Santorini exploded in 1200BC (but few months ago found out that it must have been earlier), and many other things..

I am a scintist, yes.. but as a scientist i like to see all sources before i come to any conclusion.. the mainstream scientists and the istitutes you refer too they don't... deliberately actually.. in many areas they walk on wrong paths and they try to formulate incredible theories for explaining the unexplained.. mainly in physics, astronomy, and history...

I also don't support the theories of Darwin.. and there are also credited molecular biologists and genetisists that don't agree with him (and offcourse everyone fall on them to eat them alive once they published something against Darwin as everyone fall on Tesla when he started mentioning scalar electromagnetic energy)
Darwin has two points that fails for me.. the creation of the first cell and human evolution...

The linear A it's true that it is not deciphered yet but it was used also in Crete and considering the connections of Crete and Mycenes it is quite safe to assume it was of Hellenic origin.. don't forget that mainstream archeology was insisting that Linear B was not Hellenic too until quite recently...

Now about pigs (my favorite :))

For start here is a link with commonalities:
http://www.goshen.edu/bio/PigBook/humanpigcomparison.html

Here is a surpise scientist had when tried to produce a hybrid (for transplant reasons)
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4558

Here is the commonalities in our genes that you couldn't find in the other site
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/NEWS/06/0113pigenome.html

note the quote below from the above link..

and here is a complete (very technical) comparison of all our genes..
http://www.toulouse.inra.fr/lgc/pig/compare/compare.htm

Erichthonious was not snake-like... and there is no "cult" of Athena.. Athena was honored in Egypt too but these tales have nothing to do with that.. they are from Apollodoros's Biblioteca and describe the creation of man..
I gave you those lines because they speak of genes (γόνος), that was placed in a "cup" (Κύστη) that was placed in a fridge (πάνδροσο)..
few years ago these lines would mean nothing.. now they reseble genetical operations alot.. don't you think? ;)

ypnos even if i found some text you posted very strange i tolerate them but to this comment i have to say something:

So turkish history started in 1071 ? So the other 2000 years before that we just sit around? hm who found it out ? Greek historians ?


PS Thank you Artemidoros for your posts. :thumbsup:

What I personally believe is that Turks were the very first humans on earth, the foundations of human race... :D :D

Hades of course ;)

and you are our beloved sons...