By Lord's request, I am reposting and elaborating this here in the Lobby section. From the "collision over the Agean" thread.

As a simple forumer I find that the following quote from the thread "collision over the Agean" and his other previous conducts especially towards turkish forumers from this moderator makes him unfit for the moderating job. Making threats and throwing his weight around where no forum rule has been broken! Inacceptable! Either you are a part of the discussion, in which case you cannot moderate in the thread you participate in, or you are a moderator, in which case you cannot participate in a thread ypu are moderating.

This moderator has to be shown his place, or this forum becomes a moderator's Dictatorship!

I am suspending all my activities in this forum until a satisfactory action is taken by the forum administration.

resume delenda...
your suggesting the above...? ok?

or..if an obvious rules (provoking/flaming/swearing) are broked...that the moderater can edit...even if he is particpating...or even in that case he shouldnt moderate?

further..I dont think that Cam or any other Mod in here is abusing hes "powers"...(my opinion)...
But your suggestion will be discussed in here...

Regards

As mods, we should just enforce the rules and keep personal opinion out of enforcement. All mods I believe should (and we already try) make a good-faith effort to stick to this. I don't think that members should feel like they are walking on broken glass when they post... Just have common sense courtesy... Of course this is just my style of moderating, everyone has their own, but we all try to work within the parametres of the rules we have set out...

Delenda, I'm glad you started this thread. It's much better to get issues out in the open rather than letting frustrations build. I would encourage anyone else who shares concerns to speak up about them, that what this section is for.

That being said, IMO the mod team doesn't have a simple task, and I hope that many realize the effort put in by the mod/admin team to try and create the best environment for our two common yet conflicting cultures to debate openly, yet civilized.


:drink: ,



P.S. it is only a matter of time, there will be elections for new mods next year, anyone that wants the position will be considered/nominated/voted upon, and then you guys can see how much fun it is :baeh: :bootyshake:

Thank you for this open and sincere discussion, delenda_est_carthago. I hope this debate will clarify things. My first proposal is that -as Cid would agree- we should define overmoderating, and clearly separate the overmoderating from personal styles of moderation by mods/admins.

The first lays in the sphere of the legal background of the forum, and the other has more things to do with the interpersonal relations and ethics, and should be addressed quite differently than the former.

I don't think, and I cannot pretend to act as if mods and admins are striped of their temper and styles. Nevertheless, I always think that mods and admins should act more diplomatically. The wording of moderation phrases, interventions should not only be fair, indiscriminate, and subject to the forum rules and conduct, but also clear and polite.

We, the team, are defeated by our Mediterranean temper sometimes. We simply forget to run the necessary mechanisms first, or act harshly. This is the exact moment when overmoderation emerges.

Technically speaking mods and admins do not hold any right to restrict freedom of expression, or otherwise substantially intervene in the discussion. Nevertheless they have to oversee the conduct, the course of the discussion, and whether the discussions or posted material are in line with the forum rules in substance and in format.

To repeat, mods are responsible for overseeing the course and conduct of the discussions, and their acts should be (and it is actually, save for some isolated cases) decided and performed in line with the collective understanding of not only the team but also all the members.

In the last weeks we have experienced new challenges as to certain names. It would have certainly been better if we could first make an open discussion on the forum policy with regard to certain names, yet we did not run the Lobby and Senate functions on time.

We surely need confidence building measures both in personal and forum policy terms. We should always bear in our minds that all mods here are elected, all are trying to help this forum run smoothly and subject to democratic principles. Any flaws in this conduct are either related to the lack of experience, and personal temper, or to the 'grey zones' in the shared forum policy matters. We don't have the Hague, still we have the Lobby.

My primary suggestion is that we should use this place rather frequently, and I recommend the team that the debates in lobby should be immune from any administrational measures, i.e. members should be immune from any measures against them arising from their messages in the Lobby section. Teeah, I know it's nothing more than a Hyde Park fantasy, yet it may prove to be helpful. This mean mods and admins will be striped of their rights and privileges in the lobby section, and will not have any right to lock, delete, or otherwise intervene the messages or threads.

Thus the conduct might be as follows, in case any controversy -that tends to aggravate- arises due to any wording, title, message, then mods or individual members should immediately initiate a debate to establish a common understanding, and preferably lock the thread until and unless any results obtained therefrom.

My best
Hakan

P.S.: I understand and show full respect for your decision to stay away, still I desperately need your opinion on this subject, resolution of which will ensure not only your return, but also preventing from any prospective crises. And this goes to Beleg too...

Nicely said, Modus :friendship: I feel that mods should have thier own style, as long as it stays within the parametres of the rules, and doesn't confuse the poster as to what he may face. If mods/admins don't have thier own style, there is no point of ellections... Just appoint who you think will achieve the result, regadless of the methods...

Besides this, I am in generaly in line with your approach/explination/direction

I prefered to post my comment for cameleon in the "Collision over the Aegean" thread since his actions directly effect my posts there and the content of my views in there (distortion of my words by kizir and my deleted answer to him)... Thus, cameleons actions directly (not intentionaly i believe, but directly) effect negatively the sequence of presenting my views that result to distortion of them...

I have nothing personal against Cameleon but he has accumulated already much too many mistakes in his record as moderator and i side fully with delenda and his comments...
Cameleons actions does not reflect any respect to forum members and his attempts to enforce rules are so late, so unbalanced, and so ineffective that result to even more misunderstandings..

It is not bad to come front and accept that he did mistakes and that he can't handle the job (i possibly can't handle it either that's why i don't apply for mod.. it's not something i feel bad about, i'm not here for this but for communicating with people and collecting diferent views, and i prefer to state my opinion than beeing politicaly correct as a mod should).

Nobody forced him to be a mod, he tried it, he failed and he should step down..

As i stated in the other thread i expect him to resine and apologise... till then i don't have to say anything more and this particular issue is already beyond the need of any further discussion IMHO... when things deflect that much, first they have to return in order and then discuss about preventing similar future situations...

see you all on Monday that i will return from my trip..

yes ok Gents...as Hakan wrote...(which I support)
defenetly its a difficould job as a mod or admin to hold allways some sort of balance...and make dessisions which makes all members happy...

I am shure Cameleons...intensions were ... to protect the forum...
and Gents..please..as our dear Lord said...

The first Un-sinned person through the rock....
we are here to discuss some details for better communication...
Our politicians for some hundrets years now make the biggest mistakes...and we as people have to follow...
and they are professionals...supposevly...

who couldnt forgive some mistake we make in here...if the intensions are for the best only...

I want to to hear some suggestions....rather ... the head of Cameleon...

Regards

There is plenty space for corrections...in all matters Bros...
let us find the best way...the best possible way...