Edited by cameleon1975

The international name for that country is F.Y.R.O.M. Unless you mean the Greek province Macedonia,which I doubt.

I noticed that cameleon edited Nutuk's post in discussion http://z7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsf...opic=3192&st=0&

to change probably a reference to Macedonia to FYROM.

Are we going to edit all the posts from now on that says "Kurdistan" to "North Iraq"? Are we going to modify all the references to "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" to "Turkish occupied areas of Cyprus"

I think we are seing an overmoderation here. I understand Camelon is just warming up for the moderation and I suggest we discuss what is overmoderation and what is not.

ps: Turkey and USA recognizes FYROM as "Republic of Macedonia"

No, he isn't overmorderating, it's just common sense... It's been discussed in the past, during the early foundations of this place and among the admin members, that hot points which may "disturb" any of the two sides should be avoided... Afterall, the only Macedonia I'm aware of is Greek... I think I made it clear enough ;)

O boy... thats bordering on overmoderation in my book... but I also agree with the decision... its true. We cannot accept FYROM as Macedoniafor clear reasons. We also cannot have smooth relations with anyone that does, as that is a major source of diatribi for us. If the Kurds did actualy have thir own country named after a historicaly Turkish province, then I would agree that it would be wrong to call it by that. And as in the Turkish Rebublic of Northern Cypress is concerned, while we have issues, we don't have a problem with that name as its quite clear to where there reffering to. This is why Greece has always been ready to accept the name Yougoslavian Republic Of Macedonia, or Former Yougoslavian Republic Of Macedonia. Both are quite clear, and as such acceptable. But plain "macedonia" crosses the line and I think for some would be provocative.

Please try to understands fellow Turks, this is not a moderator controll freakout... Perhaps you can refer to her as your gov does, the Republic of Macedonia, so at least there can be a clarification on which Macedonia your speaking of? (waits for the bullets to start flying... )

No...Saladin ... i didnt expect something like this from you...

You are an old member in here...and you know the deal..
we have an gentlmen deal between us...and it has to be respected.
above Hades and Thermopyles make it very clear.


Thanks in advance

Mods,

You know how much I respect your opinions so I'm surprised that Lord thinks this is part of the gentleman's deal. I don't think there was provocation in Nutuk's post. The geographical location of FYROM is usually referred as Macadonia in Turkey. I don't see any difference between Nutuk calling FYROM Macadonia and Greeks calling Istanbul Constantinapole and I don't have any issues with that either. My reaction would have been same if such a change was done in a forum article.

But it seems like I'm alione on this issue so I consider this issue closed.

Saladin check your PM...

Any non officiall name for this "state" except FYROM...(and even this FYROM we "accept" under alot of protest i can assure you) is simply not acceptebel...from any Hellene...
and by far iam not the "nationalist" nor any other in here...
But its simply ...that non greek can particpate in any thread...or topic in which this gypsies are beeing called "Macedonians"..seriously and without losing hes temper...
we tryed in the past to talk abouted...but we didnt managed to call this thiefs ...any other name than Gypsies...or Pousht...
so therefore for he shake of this Forum...we haid this agreement...in which we hold and beliefe.

Regards

This is the only Flag and country we could accept in the northern of Makedonia...The only Makedonia which excist-excisted-and will allways excist in our hearts...is the Makedonia of the Hellenes

Republica-kiss-any-ass-to survive-and-continiou-to -be-a-thief...pest

I totally agree. This undoubtedly is an act overmoderation

Whatever, next time I read some greek forumer refer to Istanbul as Constantinople, I will demand an immediate edit from the moderators.

And you will see the same conduct. :)

I strongly suggest we also come up with some kind of penalty system for those that will refer to names of places, cities, treaties etc. other than the ones appropriate... For example, Kardak instead of Imia, Constantinople instead of Istanbul, Ege instead of Aegean, Izmir instead of Smyrna, Halicarnassus instead of Bodrum etc...

Sensitive view you see things, am afraid what you say it's totally different with what we do... How FYROM is called is one case, and how Istanbul is, another...

http://z7.invisionfree.com/worldconflictsf...?showtopic=2631

I had started this thread with the title ''Bomb attack in Costinatinople'' and as you all can see it was edited.I respected it and since then avoided the term.I expect the same from you.

When you talk in an American or Turkish forum you can call it want you want,l don't care..This is an international forum,and last time I've checked F.Y.R.O.M was how they called those slavic :Cursing: .

cool. But I would think you have to care about it since you are the modarator. Anyway, I'm out.

As I said,this is an international forum.Good night. :sleepy:

WHEN A MOD EDITS A MOD'S POST, PLEASE FIRST CONSULT

Kurdish -Fyrom issues name (we have a gentlemen agreement between us) not to refrain to the PKK kurds as "kurdish state" etc etc...
we excpect the same to go on from Respected Turkish members...
because this forum contains 95% greeks and Turks...
Its not hard to do so...

for the rest....Imia is Imia for us(and as i watch the last time international maps also for the rest of the world..)...and you can call it how you like and please...for the shake of the continiouing /argument/discussion...paradeigm? we let the Kardak kardak topic from nutuk going on without editing...
also to give in a thread the historical name of a city ... isnt excactly agressive...
of corse depending how the writer puts the issue/theme etc etc///

Therefore it would be nice to see...the hard past of our history sometimes solved and discussed among us with respect to each other...
Cameleon brought the paradeigm...of hes thread excactly and right.
we started with Kurdish -FYROM issue...we could discuss maybe the rest...
How we should call or pronounce...the rest?

also we can live ...with the name Istanbul...no problem at all...
because we dont have any aggresive stand towards this city...
You have to understand...we lost the city through war...it wasnt stolen by the ootomans...(in a wider perspective)
we went to war and lost it...finito...
since than its yours...
This however...dosent erase the amazing history of this city...for exacmple..

But the Pest scopians...are thiefs...and therefore the story is another...

a few ideas from me..

Istanbul or Konstantiniyye as Ottomans called it didnt loose any of its particular importance after The Conquest but on the contrary until late 1700s it was still "The City". ;)

I find it quite amusing that the name of that state bothers Greek members this much. What is the difference when you call a country Republic of Macedonia or FYR of Macedonia. Both uses the name Macedonia which Greek people see as a part of their history. From Greek perspective , if i was Greek both names would irritate me equally. Why? Because ,whatever you name the country (FYROM or RoM) , these people are being called Macedonians(Macedons) by others and that should be what Greeks are complaning about imo..

OTOH as for Kurdistan, i dont mind existance of a state named Kurdistan along our border in south that much but i dont prefer it, however if they name themselves "South Kurdistan" then i think we should go and bring them democracy..

I hereby declare that I will henceforth refer to the said country as:
The-Country-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named B)

Istanbul is Turkish, a Turkish word worldwidely recognized and all people on earth know the city this way. No prob with that. Constantinople is a Greek word, that Greeks use it in their everyday life and there is no other name for that city, therefore we cannot call it Istanbul, it's not Greek. I say again that I don't bother, and I have no thought in writing Istanbul, not only because it's Turkish ground but also 'cause this is international and am too bored to write it the other long spelling way.
Scopians aren't Macedonians, they are Slavs, and the gap is huuuuuugeeeeee, actually there isn't any common thing to measure.
From now on, everything should be called the way they are (FYROM is internationally recognised except from US and Turkey for obvious reasons) and everything in own territory should be called that way. What I mean is, that if seen again Kardak instead of Imia, Smyrna instead of Izmir etc. there will be a mod intervention... Cheers

Yes delenda agreed...lol

Thanks Beleg for calrification...

I have to agree with Hades...
some issues cant be solved from simple people like us...
Its correct to assume that as an citizend of Turkey I obey to the rules of my own state...
Therefore it is correct to say...Yes i call this state...like my own state officially calls it...
But than again...You wont find any greek to discuss with...
and sometimes its better to hear the "justise voice from inside"
and than whats next?...there will be complains about the "North" Cyprus and so on...

lets say we have a "agreement " between us...about the Kurdish issue and the Scopian issue...and thats all...
which based on common respect and helping avoiding Flames and un-neseccary provocations...between us.


ps. which one said that we are happy with the name FYROM...? its a necessary evil for the time beeing my friend...
and yes..everyone who calls this pests...Macdonians infront of a greek...he makes hem self an enemy...un unrespected ...unwelcomed...unfriendly person...

The whole point of FYROM, is that its an independant nations who has de facto claims on us. thats the propblem. EDIT Istanbul is just a city. So if you inforce that, you will also have to eforce when the Turks call Imia "Kardak", because then one could agrue that their putting claims of it. So lets just stick with concerning ourselvs with countries names that have claims on us, rather cities or other areas wick are within a country.

EDIT cont:

OK, don't forget the real name of Kardak ehem Imia guys...

It has already started.

I demand an immediate editing of the C-word from this post, and I hereby file an official complaint.

Ok, your request will be discussed asap and a solution will be given soon enough. since the post to be edited belongs to a mod, and as I said some posts above, there is a procedure to be followed in such a case. The appropriate mod has also been conducted, thanks for understanding.

I propose that mods should not intervene in the names used by the forum members since these names also indicate a particular political expression, and by intervention, especially with the risk of widening the scope of name intervention actions, we'd be restricting the freedom of expression.

We are very good at creating antagonisms indeed. :)

If my proposition above is not accepted I am also for banning the C-word in return for the Country-That-Cannot Be-named staff :) . I am with delenda_est_carthago in that respect.

My best

What about all other words that we have so many problems with? Kardak, TRNC, Gokceada & Bozcaada etc etc which happen to be used very often in this forum?

Step by step Beleg...

Now first of all let us ashure that we managed this one...

No kurdistan...
No "Macedonia" for Slavs...

Than we could move on...to the next step... ;)

I remembered something, while I was reading this post. It isn't 100% related to the topic. But it contains the same problem...


If I am not mistaken the EU-members are only allowed, when adressing to a region/city etc. in another EU-nation, to use the name that is used by the nation who holds the region.


IF and I say IF Turkey ever enters the EU, would we have to call the City, Istanbul?

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

hahahhahahah....a re Pindo...

Since our greek forumers insist on calling some countries only by their internationally recognized full names, I hereby demand that this rule is applied to every country. That means: if we have to call The-Country-That-Must-Not-Be-Named FYROM (which means Former Yugoslav Republic of Mac.. Ooops here we go again..),
from now on we shall call

Russia=>Russian Federation
Britain=> United Kingdom
Turkey=>Republic of Turkey
America=>united states of america
Germany=>Federal republic of Germany
China=>People's republic of china
Switzerland=> The Swiss Confederation
Austria=>Republic of Austria
Iran=>Islamic Republic of Iran
Luxembourg=>Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
Liechtenstein =>Principality of Liechtenstein
North Korea=>Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Algeria=>People's Democratic Republic of Algeria
etc...

Without any exception, in order not to offend anyone ,of course. As one of the moderators has put: This is an international forum after all.

Over and out!

as you wishes...
as long this bastards are not beeing named or called ..."macedonians"...
anything else? ;)

Ok, cool, why not... From this moment and on, anyone that will make a mistake and refer to a COUNTRY with a name other than its official one, it will be regarded as provocative and will get a 20% warning, all agree? We'll discuss about cities and places in the hours to come

I disagree, and I insist my proposition above, as to zero restriction on names, unless the same is being used to insult, or provoke.

Well,for greeks Macedonia used by the skopians is both provocative and insulting.F.Y.R.O.M isn't much better,but we can setlle with this short term solution until we find a final solution.... :)

Agreed Delenda, but you should follow your own suggestion. It is Hellenic, not Greek... My id-card sais Hellenic Nationality, not Greek. Thus I am a Hellenic forumer.
Greetings.

Good point Pindos!

For future use:

Hellenic Republic - Hellas - Hellene(s)

I thing we're missing the irony brought forward by delenda here. He, IMHO, was trying to show us how such handling of names could lead to such examples above. What's next? Are we going to prepare a banned words/names list? :)

Come on guys.

Final solution? I think I 've heard this terminology before.. I wonder where... :doubt:

Its suprising me how some of you...make the effort to honor this thiefs...
I mean...i dont think that anyone in hes real life would want to honor or respect a thief...a cheater...etc etc...

How can you make this "honoring" possible now...? by saying they are Macedonians...?

Dear Lord,
that region along with some parts inside Bulgaria and Greece today is a geography called Macedonia by Ottomans. Macedonia geographically means alot to us Turks.. We know its demographic and historic background very well and its near history closely tells the history of the last 100 years of our Empire.

I dont care about the claims of Greeks or that states people.For me its a very important geography from which one part of my ancestors were forcibly evicted. Still some of their relatives, despite all the pressures live in that region. So for them and for me that place is called Macedonia regardless of the people that live there and regardless of what country has its southern,northern,eastern and western parts...