What Sniper Rifles have the Greek Special Forces?And in what calibre?

m82 barret-----> 12.7

Accuracy International AWM------> 7.62

m4 custom-----> 5.56

G3A3-EA-------> 7.62


In accordance with thermopyles ;)

what DEA said, and also scoped 4x G-3's for the sharpshooters.

Thanks but what rifle scopes are mounted on the Sniper Rifles ;
And the Accuracy Internatinal AWM only in .308 Winchester=7,62x51
and not in .338 Lapua Magnum this version exist too.
What is done with the M 14 they where on a fregatte i think 1400 pieces;



me filikous xeraitismous

well we got the .308 and the lapua magnum i think they're different.
From my experience we have no m14 rifles or at least i never saw one...

Actually we have but not so many as Pagratios mentions....they were on the frigattes..I think on the Adams or the Knox...

anyway there are some more types that the Greek SF uses...

as mentioned...we use Barett M95 0,50 (12,7) (150 pieces)
and some pieces for special units/ mostly ETA or the ZMak...Accuracy International and SACO Defence all in the 7,62 caliber...

about scopes...
Greek forces are using a variety of scopes...depending allways on the mission.
in big numbers are availebell
Trijicon AGOC 4X32..which are mounted with picatiny rail...
also Red Dot scopes also in big numbers...
from the type...
CompM and CompM2....
scopes are also used in big numbers are..
the oldest version are the AN/PAQ-4C (us made)
the second variaton are british and italian made (upgraded)
and the latest are the French one from the type PIRAT...
also scopes are availebel for the MP-5 (IL-MP5SD) and for the Glock 17 (the type LAS-TAC)


Now future procurements are near...today the greek SF are testing different weappons for the future sniper rifle...

Regards

The .338 Lapua Magnum is better but shure is matter of the price,look :
.338 Lapua Magnum - Originally designed as a long range sniping cartridge to bridge the ballistic gap between the .300 Winchester Magnum and the .50 BMG. It is in service with GSG9, the British SAS, British Army, Royal Marines, and the Dutch military. An early prototype of the cartridge even saw service with the US Navy SEALs. Good against all targets.

Yes .338 is stronger then .308 but .308 is made in greece.
The rifles are in such small numbers that the production of a new type of ammo won't be profitable.

...below is the one being used by Turkish SpecOps for soft targets.











..and our indigenously manufactured .50 cal. "Labunya"....ooops "Avunya"...



Avunya 1

Avunya 2

Avunya 3

...some further infos on the CheyTac M200 and its .408 cartridge.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn63-e.htm

After watching the first day's shooting from behind the firing line, the evaluators were ready by their second day at Blackwater to get their hands on the impressive hardware arrayed on three of the facility's ranges. A CheyTac .408 Intervention Model 200 was among more than a dozen weapons aligned on the midway point of the 1,200-yard range.

Outfitted with a Nightforce 5.5-22-by-56 NXS scope, and wearing an OpSinc suppressor with a mirage-defeating thermal cover, the 27-pound rifle was ready for the day's business. A 30-inch, fluted match barrel, nestled in a free-floated barrel tube, accounts for more than half of the weapon's overall 55-inch length (with its retractable stock extended).

It came as no surprise that the M200 rated consistently high marks from all who fired it. "I didn't want to let go of it," one wrote, "this weapon touched my ergonomic roots!" He went on to note that the system delivers "superb bolt-action firepower at long ranges." He found loading and unloading "smooth and easy," and the weapon's recoil "acceptable - I had expected more. Truly a pleasure to shoot this magnificent firearm."

His colleagues were equally effusive. "An extremely pleasant shooter," another noted. "Soft recoil for its capability. Superior to the .50 BMG for most precision applications. The suppressed gun was impressively quiet, and I'm very impressed with the ballistic computer integration."

Noted another, a bit more succinctly: "A sweet-shooting rifle. Low recoil makes it easy to get back on target and maintain control."

The only negative concerning the .408 CheyTac concerned the location of the weapon's safety. He found its positioning (above the trigger, about an inch from the closed bolt handle) "a bit awkward."

A CheyTac spokesman later told AFJ that future improvements being considered for the system are likely to include a change to the weapon's safety.

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2003_main2

It looks pretty like lapua magnum the 0.50 version.Or have u licenced it?

Hallo give some more details about your .408 is it your own development?
And some ballistics grs of the bullet, velocity Vo ,V100 , V200,etc.Energie Eo
E100, E300,E1000?And who produced MKEK or another ?

Nice looking rifle Levend, I'm sure it does the job. :mgun: I see many "inspirations" were taken in its design, Mx series, Barret, others... Good idea, Greece should do more of this for low cost RD&P weapons/items. Tell us more about the .408 :dunno:

...the Intervention M200 .408cal aint no indigenous design and have been bought off the shelf by the Turkish Armed Forces. While doing a little research on the .408 cal. I found the following explicit article, comparing all three cartridges; .338, .50 and .408;

hi

is this avunya our own production ??
the one which kale kalip and some military factorýes producement ????

and as i heard it is a quite cheap for production.!!!!!
:huh:

Kaan

Hello,

I am the person who did the original post on Sniping Operations Executive.org, which is my company in the U.S. I was an owner in Cheytac until I left due to the companies mismanagement and some misleading claims and the ability to back them up.

Any questions on the .408, be glad to help out, the cartridge isn't bad, just bad management at Cheytac. Their ballistic software is absolutely good, but there is better on the way from SOE in the future. SOE specializes in training special operations snipers, and extreme range shooting. We are based in Idaho.

Respectfully,
Trigger

Sniping Operations Executive Website

welcomeWCF Warm welcome to you hammer375. Honour to have someone of your calibre to contribute with us. Could you perhaps give us a quick summary comparison between the .338 Laupa magnum and .408? pluses and minuses of each and ideal applications? Along with new potential developements, tryal tech and target results? Are you involved at all with optic systems? Which would you suggest for what application/calibre?

Welcome again, and thank you kindly :hathello:

-Thermo

-Thermo, sure thing. This is something from my own website as well. Instead of just linking you there, i'm copying it direct. The article also touches on a couple of other issues along the way. Here you are...


"The beginning or the explanation behind the 338 vs. 408 vs. 50 BMG issue is explained in part, by my response to an individual asking about why I suggest a .338 Lapua over the .408 CheyTac for long range sniping. More will follow.


There are many "urban legends" of sniping, methods and techniques that have not been vetted in an operational environment, etc. These range from bad operational methods, to plain methods of cleaning that are not accurate or are misrepresented. It has been one of my long missions to dispel many of these myths: Here is only a couple.

1. Sweets cannot be left in a rifle barrel but for a few minutes, it will destroy the barrel. NOT TRUE. That formula ceased to exist in the early 60s. Routinely I will load a barrel full of sweets after removing carbon buildup, and poor out the excess Sweets and leave the barrel sit as long as overnight, then push a patch through the barrel, getting a huge blob of blue. The copper residue chemically reduced.

2. WD40 will harm your barrel, NOT TRUE.

3. Only push a brush the same direction as the bullet travels, NOT TRUE. This has nothing to do with anything.

Many times, “golden rules” or “urban legends” are generated out of an observed single event. Someone left Sweets in a barrel for days and days, it dried out, and the barrel rusted. That propagated into a rule of never leaving Sweets in a rifle barrel for a long period. When one trains dozens of sniper students in a years time, trends appear or don’t appear that are indicators of certain events. For example, the M-24 has shown to be far more durable than the M40A1 – M40A3 series rifles over the years. It is easier to maintain in the field, and in my own observations, the M24 is more accurate gun for gun."

NOTE TO THIS SITE: I HAVE SINCE DROPPED USING SWEETS 762 TO A BETTER AND NON-TOXIC CLEANER. IT'S A BORE-TECH PRODUCT AND DOES NOT CONTAIN AMMONNIA, THE TOXIC AGENT IN SWEETS. IT IS CALLED "COPPER ELIMINATOR", AND WORKS JUST AS FAST.

"The .408 is a great cartridge, but the the .338 Lapua is better, in a practical sense. In combat sniping, the ability to strike a target at great range is more about the ability to address environmental and meteorological factors than it is the gun. The .408 without computer support is no better at 2000 yards than a 50 or a 338 Lapua. It is guess work for any of those guns. The above things are intangibles, here is real data:

Bullets and the cartridge make all the difference. The .338 270 gr. Lost River Ballistic Technologies J40 match bullet is the best .338 bullet in the world. It has a 2000 yard supersonic range in a gun that can push it to 2850 fps. (At this point, I’d advise against the AI .338 Lap Mag, it's the least capable of any of the guns out there, but they have great marketing guys and good brochures). The 250 gr. Scenar Lapua bullet only has a super sonic range of 1600 meters at 3000 fps.

At 2000 yards, the flight time for a 750 gr. AMAX out of a .50 and flight time is 3.6 seconds. Velocity at 2000 yards for the AMAX is 1153 fps, just barely supersonic. This means the projectile at 2000 yards moves about 3.8” for every 1 millisecond of time and range.

At 2000 yards, the flight time for a 338 Lapua at 2900 fps (their best speed) and the flight time is 3.4 seconds. Velocity at 2000 yards for the 270 gr. LRBT J40 round is 1159 fps, also, just barely supersonic. This means the projectile at 2000 yards moves about 4.1” for every 1 millisecond of time and range.

At 2000 yards, the flight time for a 408 CheyTac shooting the 419 gr. at 2900 fps and the flight time is 3.5 seconds. Velocity at 2000 yards for the 419 gr. LRBT J40 round is 1213 fps, also, just barely supersonic, but a little better. This means the projectile at 2000 yards moves about 4.4” for every 1 millisecond of time and range.

SUMMAY OF ABOVE DATA:

750 GR. .50 BMG AMAX @ 2000 yards, projectile is 1153 fps and covers 3.8” for 1 millisecond of flight.

338 Lapua 270 gr. LRBT J40 @ 2000 yards, projectile is 1159 fps and covers 3.4” for 1 millisecond of flight.

.408 CheyTac 419 gr. J40/M40 @ 2000 yards,, projectile is 1213 fps (a little better but statistically and tactically insignificant) and covers 4.4” for 1 millisecond of flight time.

The reality is that at that range, none have any advantage and a flight time of 3+ seconds is too long for any realistic shot on a non-material target. As a professional shooter, I would challenge any CheyTac shooter to a head to head shoot against a .50 BMG shooting AMAX and any .338 Lapua shooting the 270 gr. LRBT bullet.

With the above things in mind. The .408 suffers the following real world disadvantages.

.408 vs. .338 on weight = you can get a .338 Lapua in at 17 lbs easy. Lightest weight for a .408 repeater is 26 lbs. They do make a single shot rifle that they can get down to about 17 lbs, but recoil management is a serious issue. You can make a gun too light to be good with it.

.408 vs. .338 on cost. = You can have a .338 Lapua from H&S Precision for 2100.00 in their HTR rifle. Dakota Arms, which is a very fine rifle, is 4400.00. The .408 M200 military gun from Cheytac is 12,000.00. (If they sold you one, right now, they like to claim military only, but no military is buying any.

On Tactical edge. The .408 can go a little farther supersonic, but both guns real world range is 2000 yards based on supersonic speed. The realistic max flight time for any shot is about 2.5 seconds. This is around 1500 meters for all three gun platforms.

At that speed, all three mentioned are about the same for flight time. 2.5 seconds for the 338 Lapua, 2.5 seconds for the 408 CheyTac and 2.6 seconds for the .50 / AMAX combination. I would challenge anyone to point out the edge of one of those cartridges vs. the other. .408 looses on weight, cost, and factory work on the guns, non-standard parts, etc. All things compared, cost, precision, range, flight time, etc., the .338 Lapua is the easy winner.

The .408 had the advantage, but Cheytac burned that away by changing a gun in ways they knew nothing about. They lost velocity over the original guns, which were all at 3050 fps and had a real advantage.

On my recommendation for a tactical 1500 meter gun is the .338 Lapua. Prairie Gun Works of Canada, Dakota Arms, one built by McBros, H&S Precision, personally, I build my own. I would use a Prairie Gun Works Timberwolf action, a Lawton barrel (made to my specs), a McMillan A5 stock. Install a cantilever metal block system instead of a conventional bedding job, put a suppressor on it, and use a Schmidt & Bender PII Marksman sight with 100 MOA of elevation, expensive, but nice. That setup will smoke a .408 all day long. The trick is you'll have to use the 270 gr. LRBT J40 match bullet, or you won't have the supersonic range the .408 has. If you use the 250 gr. Lapua Scenar bullet, you loose 400 yards of supersonic range and the .338 Lapua drops out of the race against the .50 AMAX setup and the .408 CheyTac.

I've been in the special operations sniping community on the operations side, training side and material development side. I shot the very first .338 Lapua when it was called the .338/.416 back in 1987 and have been seeing it mature since then. It's time now. I believe the .338 Lapua will be the new hot sniping round. It's been adopted in England, Canada, turkey, and several other countries as the standard sniping round. I think there will always be .308 guns; you couldn't run a training program on .338s alone. Barrels would not survive the heat generated by excessive shooting.

The more interesting setup is the .375/.408 (since named the 375 SOE), using a LRBT built .375 projectile with a 1.000 G1 ballistic co-efficient at a speed of 3150 fps. This gives the 375 SOE a supersonic range of 2800+ yards. Those are serious numbers."

SOE's explanation of the 338 Lapua v 408 Cheytac v 50 BMG and the 375 SOE

:applause:

Does the .338 hold a significant wieght advantage over the .50? Is the US considering its adaptation over the continuance of the .50?

Yes, the weight of the heaviest of the 338s is nearly 8 lbs. lighter than the lightest .50 BMG rifles around. The Navy's M88 PIP is still a 26 lb gun with the Nightforce optics. A fat 338 Lapua is around 19 lbs. But i have to say this, the weight of a long range gun is a factor. A 13-15 lb 338 Lapua will work against you, not for you. Might suck to carry, but when it's time to shoot, that extra weight is needed to stabilize the gun.

The 338 Lapua is under consideration. IT's about time too, the US is a long ways behind the power curve in gun system. Canada has gone to 338 Lapua as well as other countries. Problem is that you need that 7.62mm NATO platform to train guys from the ground level up. It's logistics based, a 7.62mm gun will do 10,000 rounds before rebarrreling. A 338 Lapua generates much more heat, and in those heavy 100 round count days on the training range, they would eat a barrel every class. Where I worked at, that is 6 - 8 courses a year. That means you would have to be 3 guns deep in the arms room, or you would have to roll back students or you wouldn't have guns. 338 is a great operational gun, it's a bad choice for a training platform.

The .50 will be around forever. The heavier round is needed for work in the anti-material environment. Shooting "things" not just soft targets. This is a highly misunderstood business as well. Here are some things off my website to look over on training aspects.

Respectfully,
Trigger

SOE Heavy Rifle Training

welcomeWCF

Great Info Hammer Thanks Alot...and again welcome

Actually not licensed but pretty close. The Turkish avunya is actually the same (with some minor improvements) riffle as the Acuracy international.

Kalekalip the maker of the avunya riffle hired almost all of the former designers and also the former manager of Acuracy International and let them design the avunya, which is pretty much a copy if not the original Acuracy international riffle.

So in the end it is not really licensed nor reverse engineering since it is developed by Kalekalip with almost the same engineering team producing close to exact same looking riffle.

Hellenic special police force (EKAM).

Accuracy International 7.62mm

Nice equipment ,but tell me what 9 para ammunition with pink bullets
are this in front from the MP 5.And the blue compensator for a MP 5 I see
this for first time.

Regards

http://www.ydt.gr/main/Article.jsp?ArticleID=140060


Pagratios, it's from the official Hellenic Police site. Please click on the link and you'll find out.

Training rounds with paint. Or maybe rubber bullets?

Simunition FX® Marking Cartridges and conversion kit for MP5.

Thanks Aor7,
I shoot this caliber too and have many Policeman in my Shootingclub but they have here other training ammo.Of course in Greece we buy all the things from over the Atlantik.

Regards