I have seen this Picture of a planned MILGEM-Corvette in TD-Forum, postet by orko_8.



Has SSM published a Design of a planned Corvette-Prototyp under MILGEM Program ?


Have TNC plans to replace Kartal-class FAC and the 4 outdated Knox Frigates ?

That thing on the back of the ship, could that represent a RAM battery?

Jes that represent a RAM-Battery.

Hmmm nice, the MRTP70 and the Milgem, are these the same projects or two different projects of a corvette? Secondly what about the Aselsan Bora system, does the Bora still have a future since the RAM system is apparently chosen?

And to add more confusion there is a drawing of the milgem in the S&H magazine edition 18, page 20, the milgem drawing there doesn't look like the maquette you've shown. I could scan this picture but I don't know how I can share it here on this forum.

3er,

MRTP-70 and Milgem are two different Projects. Milgem was started by Turkish Navy to cover the need for a ship that is capable to conduct ASW operation in littoral waters and to perform patrol duties.

MRTP-70 is a private project and venture of Yonca-Onuk shipyard. It has not materialized yet.

Is MRTP-70 planned for the Requirement of turkish Navy or for export to another Countries ?

Has turkish Vaval Comand plans to replace the outdated Kartal Class FAC's in near Future ?

http://www.turkishnavy.net/kartale.htm

Dear Skywalker,

TuNavy FPB-57 Dogan Class boats underwent a mid-life upgrade with optronics (plus may be chaff dispensers) but no modernization was planned for Kartal class so far. It is more likely that these boats shall be used until they die for natural reasons. Kilic II production is underway and most probably after completion of the second batch, we would not need Kartal platforms any longer.

On the other hand I do like these platforms.

Kartal Class

When we retire a naval unit, what do we do with the onboard missile systems (Harpoons, Penguins, etc)? Scrap them? Is it not possible to convert them into land-based systems?

If still useable, on board systems of deleted ships are used on other ships.

I had read a news or idea in a national magazine,the penguin missiles on the Kartal class which is made of wooden would be settled on the MRTP platforms. So, the platforms of Kartal class would be replaced with MRTP platforms,may be MRTP-70 class or MRTP-45.I think it's not unreasonable at all.

The rockets or missiles yes, but how about the launchers? All other ships already have their own launchers. When a ship is commissioned, it comes with brand-new missile launchers, right? Can you install additional launchers onboard a ship? When you retire a ship, can you increase the number of launchers on another ship say from 8 Harpoon tubes to 16 tubes? If no, what happens to the extra launchers? Why not use them as land-based systems?

Or am I all wrong in assuming that newly-commissioned ships come with brand-new missile launchers?

Well in case of Harpoon and Penguin one launcher is one missile.

If you transfer 4 Harpoon canisters (launchers) from one ship to another you transfer 4 Harpoon missiles inside of them as well.

As Saturn5 said in these systems the launchers are one per missile and come together.. i wanted to add that not only missiles are reused but some electronics too.. missile guidance radars along with wiring and some parts of the FCS for example can be removed from an older vessel having missile capability and placed to a new one...

I’ m agree with Modus about Kartal class boats. These ships are really very old. Moreover, these ships are only users of Penguin class ASM which are very efficient in the coastal or islander seas such as the Aegean Sea. I don’ t argue that we must to use Kartal class boat anymore. But, I’ m really wondering what happened to our Penguins in the future. Will TDK use only the Harpoon and Exocet ASM into its ships. Maybe, our Penguins are very old like MM-38 Exocet. But, according my opinion TDK needs this kind of missiles such as Penguen-3 or NSM for coastal or islander seas.

Arutha

Turkish Navy have in my opinion enough outdated Patrol Crafts in service, here are any Examples:


PGM-71


K-Class


T-Class


Hisar-Class

This Vessels are uneconomical in service. Weapon, Comunication, Navigation and Propulsion Systems are outdated Superstructure, too. This Vessels must be replaced with new modern Fast Patrol Boats like Onuk MRTP-33 or 55 in near Future. This is in my opinion the best Solution, we can use the capabillieties of our own Industry by replacing this outdated Vessels.

Kartal must stay. With 4 diesels, 4 shafts, 42 knots top speed... very sleek, fast boats. Excellent craft for hit and run attacks between islands, especially in the Dodecanese region of the Aegean .



As for the Hisar's (pictured in previous post), I thought they were decommissioned after the new D'Estienne D'Orves corvettes were acquired from France (along with their Exocet missiles).

BTW I once saw a Hisar class docked at Mudanya. From the front it looks like a relic from a WW2 movie... very unimpressive. :puke:

@ Efeler

I'm not the opinion that Kartal Class FAC must stay in service, Onuk MRTP-33 or MRTP-55(in Future) are very Fast Boats with Stealth Charateristics. They are more usefull in the modern Battelfield than older Kartal Class and more economycly in service. They are more exelent attack crafts for hit and run Operation between the Aegean Islands. I think a possible purchase of MRTP-33 or MRTP-55 Vessels is a good Solution for Future to replace PGM-71 Vessels and Kartal Class. We can use the capabilities of our own Industry and Safe money and Know-How for better Future Developments of turkish shipyard Industry. With their anti-magnetic Hull MRTP-Crafts are protectet against magnetic Mines who is a great threat for turkish Navy by entering the Ships over Dardanelles in the Aegean.


I found Pictures of planned Corvettes under MILGEM Program.
http://www.dzkk.tsk.mil.tr/turkce/proje/mi...83_image004.png

http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2005/april/04_05_4.html

Good News ! !

TNC published a Milgem Test-Video.

http://www.dzkk.tsk.mil.tr/Turkce/Moderniz...ilgem_Video.wmv

Turkish navy plan a purchase of 16 new Fast Patrol Boats/attack Craft

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/browser_tr.asp?srcUR...&lightURL=sub01




Technical Requirements of the planned FAC/FPB

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/library/docs/tr/duyu..._bot_duyuru.pdf

I see the required technical Datas are in the most thinks the same like the Datas of Onuk MRTP-55. I think it's possible that the Navy purchase Onuk MRTP-55 FAC/FPB.

In this PDF File you can find technical Datas about Onuk MRTP-55. http://www.americanturkishcouncil.org/file...yar%20(SSM).pdf

Skywalker, I do not think that the Turkish Navy is going to buy the MRTP-55 class boats as the Navy clearly says the new patrol boats must be made using shipbuilding grade steel.

Will turkish Navy purchase this Boats from turkish or foreign Shipyards ? I mean licence Building with foreign Shipyards.

This is not clear. There is only a Request for Proposal published. We will see how many foreign and domestic companies respond to the RfP and which one will be selected.

As Saturn5 stated, it seems unlikely that MRTP is a candidate for this tender, since Yonca-Onuk works with composite materials. The requirement is for a steel hull.

What is the Reason why turkish Navy don't purchase a Ship with composite materials ?

Operational and technical issues that we don't know, I guess. Composite material is not a 100% perfect solution for ship hulls. It has both advantages and disadvantages. Maybe TN found out that for its requirements, a steel hull ship will be mosre cost-effective.

It would be a big shame if the good course changed after the MRTP series and the Milgem going back again to purchasing from abroad.

Especially with a project like the Milgem I would count it treason!

The design could be most propably a local one. It is clearly stated that the participands must be have thier company HQ in Turkey and must have a shipyard in Turkey as well. But one Turkish company having a licence from a foreign shipyard can win the bid as well. We have to wait to see the result.

I prefer a turkish Design for a future FPB/FAC, with licence production of a foreign model we make depend from other countries like Germany or USA.

I think turkish Navy will not purchase new Fast Attack Crafts with this new Tender for 17 Patrol Boats. In my opinion it's more possible that turkish Navy will replace older Patrol Boats like Hisar or Türk Class. For this Purpose is a composite Boat like MRTP-55 to expensive.

Infos about Turk-Class: http://www.turkishnavy.net/turke.htm

@Nutuk

Do you which Boats will turkish Navy consider for the SAT and Fast Intervention Boat Projects ?

:sbof: no

Do someone know if turkish Navy plans the instalation of MK-41 VLS for later batches of MILGEM Corvettes ?

Skywalker83,

VLS is currently not planned for MilGem. If VLS is also added, the ship will become something like a downsized frigate. but its purpose is to conduct ASW and patrol duties offshore. That's why VLS SAM is not placed in the design.

I must remind, details of the design have not been declared.

You are in right, for ASW and Patrol Purposes is a VLS Intergration needless, but I think also it's possible that Turkey will Export MILGEM Corvettes when it comes in Serial Production. Possible Export Customers have other requirements than turkish Navy. For a export-Version is the VLS Integration Important, dependent of the Customer Requirements.

I think we should first make our own coastguard a customer of the Milgem instead of searching customers abroad.

But it wouldn't be wrong if we sold a few Milgems to Albania giving them something more modern than anything in the Greek navy. :rolleyes:

MILGEM is to costly for the poor Albania and to expensive for their needs, it's better to sold them more MRTP-33 with a 25mm Rafael Typhoon Gun, Penguin SSM and BORA SAM System.


MILGEM is more intersting for States in Asia(Pakistan, Indonesia) and middle East(arab Gulf-States)

Turkish Coast Guard SAR boat will be around 1400 tonnes. MilGem is expected to be over 2000 tonnes. They of are completely different design, class, construction.

What nutuk said got me thinking :
about the milgem being more modern than anything in the greek navy and selling some to albania.

If what you say is true, that milgem is going to be OVER 2,000 tonnes, then omg, :blink: ,that is the size of a large corvete/small frigate.

I know it is designated as being corvette class, but if it is much over 2,000 tonnes, that is bordering on frigate size.

Anyway, in any case it is a very large corvete.
How correct is what nutuk said?
How does the milgem corvete compare to the super vita FAC's?

the super vita are about 600t full load, much smaller than the milgem,
but as far as armament goes, they seem to be quite similar.
In any case, do you think it prudent to make something as large and expensive as the milgem that is almost a frigate in size but not in capability?
Would it not be better to make something the size of a FAC? or at most 1000-1500 tonnes?

It just seems way too big for me, over 2,000 tonnes. You might as well go ahead and make a firgate while you are there, add a helipad etc..

If it turns out that the milgem is about 2,300 tonnest or something, it is only 700t short of being a full 3,000 t frigate.

But for comparison, a super vita is 580 t, and AFAIK has lesser but quite comparable performace and weapons.

Finally, does anyone know how many milgem will be procured?

To be honest, i dont really know much about milgem, but if what you say is true and it does not have a VLS, then i am a bit confused >>

You can not Compare MILGEM large Corvettes with "Super Vita" FAC, Super Vita is Designed for Fast Attack Missions and not for coastel ASW missions like MILGEM. Both have two different Roles. Ok Super Vita carry two Torpedos as far I know, but isn't optimized or designed for ASW Missions. You are in right that both Types of Ship are in Arnament similar, but They have two different Mission Purposes.

I don't think MILGEM is fullfils the Requirement of albanian Navy, they are to costly for a poor country like albania. I also do not believe Albania has Infrastructure for Maintance and Spare Parts of these Corvettes. More MRTP-33 or new MRTP-55 are also a Naval Threat for Greece in the Ionian Sea. And how I Said a Corvette in the Class like MILGEM is too expensive for the albanian needs.