India History

Europeans in India

India was a British colony. The British left behind them in India a strong imprint of their philosophy and culture and even today it is evident that English which is a foreign language is the most important and respected language in India. But the British were not the only Europeans to arrive in India and have their imprint. Since ancient period even before the beginning of the Christian era there were relations between Europeans and Indians. The main Europeans to arrive in ancient India were Greeks. The Greeks are referred to in ancient Indian history as Yavanas. Even the most famous ancient Greek conqueror, Alexander the Great, arrived in India. But actually he arrived up to the present India-Pakistan border. But there were other Greeks who arrived in India and established kingdoms. Many of these Greek communities later on adopted Hinduism and integrated in the Indian caste system. Even today there are communities in Kashmir who claim to be of Greek origin. Not all Greeks arrived in India to conquer it. There were also Greek scientists who arrived in India for scientific research, especially in astronomy and mathematics.
Later on other Europeans arrived in India because of commercial reasons. The Indian sub-continent was then world famous for its spices. But when the Muslim Ottoman Empire of Turkey ruled the Middle East, they caused lots of problems to European Christian merchants who tried to pass through their land. Therefore the Europeans tried to find other routes to reach India. And so accidentally Christopher Columbus found the continent of America. Columbus tried to get to India while sailing westwards from Europe. Columbus presumed that because the earth is round he would eventually get to India while sailing westwards, instead he found the continent of America whose existence was not known then to the Europeans. Columbus thought that he had arrived in India and called the natives Indians.

From the 15th century the European representatives arrived in India, namely English, French, Dutch, Danish and Portuguese. Among these European powers the Portuguese arrived first in India in 1498 via sea after they had circled the whole of the African continent. These representatives arrived in India after they received from their country rulers charter to do business with India.

These Europeans at first requested from the local rulers permission to trade in their entities. Later on they requested from the local rulers permission to build factories. After they built factories they requested to build forts around these factories to defend them from pirates and other dangers. Then they requested to recruit local Indians to serve as guards and soldiers in these forts and so on they slowly created their own armies. And so one of the European power's representative, the British East India Company, became the ruler of India.

The British control of India was a result of several factors. The Portuguese, who along with their business tried to enforce Roman Catholicism on the Indians were defeated by local rulers sometimes in collaboration with Protestant European powers. But still the Portuguese remained in India with small pockets. Their main center in India was Goa. The Dutch, who had holds in south India and the Danes, who had holds in east India, left India for their own reasons. The two main European powers that remained in India were British and French. These two powers tried different ways to control India and to defeat each other. Each of these European powers sometimes collaborated with local Indian rulers to defeat the other European power. Eventually the British became the rulers of India. But the French like the Portuguese remained in India with small pockets and both these powers remained in India even after the British left India in 1947.

The British East India Company was actually a trading company and it received from the British crown charter to trade with the Indian sub-continent. They arrived in India for spice trade in 1600. Like other European powers that arrived in India, they at first requested from the local rulers permission to trade in their entities. The British East India Company was more sophisticated than other Europeans who arrived in India. This company offered different sophisticated agreements to the different Indian ruling families, which made them the actual managers of the Indian kingdoms. They sometimes used their army against local rulers and annexed their territories with the result that there was lot of embitterment among the Indians against the British. After the 'Indian Mutiny' of 1857, the British Crown took back the charter from the East India Company and ruled India directly through a Viceroy. The British gave India independence in 1947, but its last soldier left India eventually in 1950. The French also left India in 1950. The Portuguese were the last to leave India in 1961.

Even though the European powers arrived in India for commercial reasons, they also started converting local Indians to Christianity. Of the five European powers the Portuguese were most enthusiastic to baptize Indians. The Portuguese inspired by the Pope’s order to baptize people around the world not only fought wars against the local Indian rulers, but also they tried to enforce their Roman Catholic prayers on Syrian Christians who were in India before the modern European powers arrived in India (see Christianity in India).
After many wars the Portuguese were defeated by local rulers and they had only one big pocket of control in India, Goa. Goa was made the capital of Portuguese colonies in the eastern hemisphere. The Portuguese not only fought the Indian rulers, but they also fought against other European powers in India especially Dutch and English. Many Portuguese churches in Kerala were converted into English and Dutch churches after they were captured by these powers.
The English missionaries started acting in India at a much later period. The British arrived in India in 1600 and they allowed the missionaries to enter their territory only from 1813. The British allowed different churches to establish missionaries in their territory. The missionaries didn’t only spread Christianity, but they also did humanitarian deeds giving the needy the basic necessities of life like food, clothes and shelter. The missionaries also built schools in India and many of them exist even today and have Christian or European originated names.

The British church missionaries succeeded less than the Portuguese in converting Indians to Christianity, but unlike the Portuguese who tried to enforce Christianity, these Protestant converts were voluntary. The Portuguese were also aware of the Indian custom according to which the wife followed her husband’s faith and therefore married their men to Indian women. Most of the Portuguese baptized Christians in India have Portuguese oriented surnames, like Fernandez, De Silva, De Costa and others.

There is also an Anglo-Indian community in India, who are also descendants from European (English) fathers and Indian mothers, but these relations between English men and Indian women started because of romantic reasons. The Anglo-Indians are mostly Christians and have adopted English as their first language. According to the Indian Constitution, two seats in the Indian Parliament are reserved for the Anglo-Indian community members.

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After having an idiotic argumentantion with some Indians...i would like to have some infos about this themes...
Soon enough i will put scanned articels which unfortune are in greek...but very interesting about this time period of Hellenism...
any other related link or info are welcomed...
Also i would like to see some articels about Greeks all over the ancient world...

Regards and Thanks

Conquests of Alexander The Great (326 BCE)
In 326 BCE Alexander the Great made his foray into Punjab. King Omphis, ruler of Taxila, surrendered the city to Alexander. Many people had fled to a high fortress/rock called Aornos. Aornos was taken by Alexander by storm (see siege of Aornos). Alexander fought an epic battle against the Indian monarch Porus in the Battle of Hydaspes (326). After victory, Alexander made an alliance with Porus and appointed him as satrap of his own kingdom. Alexander continued on to conquer all the headwaters of the Indus River.

East of Porus' kingdom, near the Ganges River, was the powerful kingdom of Magadha. Exhausted and frightened by the prospect of facing another giant Indian army at the Ganges River, his army mutinied at the Hyphasis (modern Beas), refusing to march further East. Alexander, after the meeting with his officer, Coenus, was convinced that it was better to return.

Alexander was forced to turn south, conquering his way down the Indus to the Ocean. He sent much of his army to Carmania (modern southern Iran) with his general Craterus, and commissioned a fleet to explore the Persian Gulf shore under his admiral Nearchus, while he led the rest of his forces back to Persia by the southern route through the Gedrosia (modern Makran in southern Pakistan).


Coin of Sophytes (305-294 BCE)Alexander left behind Greek forces which established themselves in the city of Taxila, now in Pakistan. Several generals governed the newly established province. One of them, Sophytes (305-294 BCE), was an independent Greek prince in the Punjab.

Within a few years local India monarchs recaptured the region from the Greeks. Chandragupta Maurya, who had met Alexander in Taxila, founded the Mauryan empire.




Seleucid invasion (304 BCE)
Seleucus I Nicator founder of the Seleucid dynasty and one of Alexander's former generals. He invaded India (modern Punjab in northern India and Pakistan) in 304 BCE.

It is said that Chandragupta Marya put an army of 100,000 men and 9,000 war elephants and forced Seleucus to conclude an alliance. Seleucus gave him his daughter in marriage, ceded the territories of Arachosia, and received from Chandraguta 500 war elephant which he used decisively at the Battle of Ipsus.

Seleucus also sent an ambassador named Megasthenes to Chandragupta's court, who repeatedly visited Pataliputra (modern Patna in Bihar state), capital of Chandragupta. Megasthenes has written detailed descriptions of India and Chandragupta's reign.

Continued diplomatic exchanges and good relations are between the Seleucids and the Mauryan empirors are then documented throughout the duration of the Mauryan empire.

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Indo-Greek rule (180-30 BCE)

The founder of the Indo-Greek Kingdom Demetrius I (205-171 BCE), wearing the scalp of an elephant, symbol of his conquest of India.In 180 BCE, the Indo-Greeks, invaded parts of northwest and northern India. They are an extension of the Greco-Bactrian dynasty of Greek kings (the Euthydemids) located in neighbouring Bactria.

The invasion of northern India followed the destruction of the Mauryan dynasty by the general Pusyamitra Sunga, who then founded the new Indian Sunga dynasty (185 BCE-78 BCE). The Indo-Greek king Demetrius I of Bactria went as far as the capital Pataliputra in eastern India (today Patna): "Those who came after Alexander went to the Ganges and Pataliputra" (Strabo, XV.698). The Indian records also describes Greek attacks on Saketa, Panchala, Mathura and Pataliputra (Gargi-Samhita, Yuga Purana chapter).

The Indo-Greeks ruled various part of northern and northwestern India until the end of the 1st century BC, while the Sungas remained in the east.

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Legacy
Buddhism flourished under the Indo-Greeks, leading to the Greco-Buddhist cultural syncretism. The arts of the Indian sub-continent were also quite affected by Hellenistic art during and after these interactions.

The Hunza tribe in the Pakistani part of Kashmir is said to have descended from Greek generals based there. The Coorgis, from Karnataka in southern India are also said to have descended from a mixture of Persian, Greek and Afghani ancestry.

The Ancient Greeks in Afghanistan and Their Probable Descendants Today in Nuristan, Afghanistan and in the Kalash People, Pakistan
By Michael Issigonis

Today, the region called Nuristan is one in a chain of ethnic refuge areas along the Hindu Kush, or the Indian Caucasus, named as such by Alexander the Great, located in northeast Afghanistan.

This is the home of a unique group of mixed European-Indian tribal peoples now called Nuristanis, people of the only Afghanistan province to have resisted Islam for centuries. The British established the "Durand Line" in 1893, a boundary creating the new countries of the British Protectorate (India) and Afghanistan. Nuristan was originally meant to be included in India.

When the Islamic rulers declared war on the Nuristanis, the British provided all necessary weapons to the Afghan army, thus contributing to the annihilation of Nuristanis and their subsequent forced conversion to Islam.

The male survivors were taken as prisoners to Kabul, a city whose ancient Greek name was Kofin, meaning the place were bees accumulate, or the place of honey, or a place rich in food supplies. Here, the men were forced to join the army. The women that survived were taken into the harems.1

After the occupying armies left, the more isolated Nuristanis reverted to their old religions and customs because they did not find in their invaders' qualities worth imitating.

The other Nuristanis who submitted to Islam are such devout Moslems that they were the first citizens of the country to successfully revolt against the Soviet occupation. It is unknown how many of them have joined the Taliban.

Alexander the Great
The expedition of Alexander the Great (327-325 B.C.) into what is now Afghanistan has been well documented. He laid the foundations of many cities, some bearing his own name. With the passage of time, some names were changed by newcomers to the area who could not pronounce Greek names. In this way, Kandahar is Alexander's name, Herat is Alexandria Areion, and Ganzhni is Alexandria Gazhaka, among others.

However, Alexander was not the first Greek coming to India. Legends hold that Dionysos, the god of wine, led an expedition into India several thousand years earlier. He and his companions were so amazed at the size of the then unnamed Indus river that he named it the Son of God (In-Dios). He established a settlement at Nyssa (Jalalabad) where he found Mediterranean plants growing such as ivy and grapes, possibly the only place in Asia where these plants grow. According to legends, Dionysus and his companions continued the journey eastwards and it is possible they reached the Yunnan province in China.

In Yunnan today the numerous minorities who are unlike the Chinese in appearance have preserved religion and customs, including wine-making, similar to the customs of the ancient Greeks.2

Indo-Greek Kingdoms
After Alexander, several Greek Kingdoms were created covering most of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and parts of India that lasted for 3 centuries. The inhabitants were called Indo-Greeks. Only one ancient city has been excavated so far and it lies on the shores of the Amu Darya River. The city exhibits temples, a gymnasium, a palace, numerous buildings, and a huge theatre sculpted on the side of a hill with a superb view of the river valley and the tall mountains of what is now Tajikistan across.

These kingdoms ventured into India and expanded as far as the eastern parts of the Indian peninsula. Place names are still preserved today.

However, the legacy of these kingdoms outlasted the kings in culture and art that are still admired.

Greek techniques of stone and metalworking began to be used in India, Greek coins began to appear in the bazaars, and settlements of Greek type were found as urban islands in the sea of Indian native villages. The most important example of Greek influence in India is the upsurge of Buddhist art in Gandhara during the early Christian era, since called the Gandhara Art. This Greco-Indian school of art played a catalytic role in the development of Asian art. By creating the image of Buddha with the features of Apollo and wearing an ancient Greek tunic, the artists established an art religious in its meaning, but naturalistic and humanistic in its forms.

Examples can be admired today in the museums of Taxila, Peshawar, Swat, and Lahore, in the giant Buddha statues that were recently blown apart by the Taliban without a vigorous opposition from the civilized world.

One important piece of ancient art that is still "alive" today is the amazing over-abundance of coins of the Indo-Greek kings which are continually being unearthed by Afghan farmers and provide sometimes their only source of income after they are sold in the bazaars of Pakistan. These coins represent some of the finest coin-making of all time. They depict the kings on one side with some ancient Greek god or goddess on the other.

The abundance of gold supplies from Central Asia for several centuries before the arrival of the Greeks resulted in the minting of numerous coins as well as some enormous coins. In Afghanistan, one can find the largest gold and the largest silver coins ever minted. The silver coins had a diameter of 65 mm.! In some of the coins they incorporated nickel with a technique only known to the Chinese at that time.

Precious Stones
Northeastern Afghanistan has been a supplier of precious stones since at least 5,000 B.C., and its ancient name was simply " the vault" or Valaskia. The precious cargo was making its way through the so-called "Silk Route" to ancient Persia, Greece, and Rome, and later to the Byzantines, Europeans and now mostly to the Americans. In fact, the name Kalash is the ancient Greek name for lapis lazuli, possibly the only place on earth where it exists in abundance. The area is also rich in emeralds, rubies, spinel and others that provide a substantial share of the world production even during years of war, when the income from these stones becomes essential for the survival of the Afghan people.

The Kalash People
The Kalash people of northwestern Pakistan are unique in their customs and religion. Although surrounded by Moslems in all directions (Pakistan is essentially a Moslem state), they believe in ancient Greek gods and goddessess such as Zeus, Aphrodite, Hestia, and Apollo. Their language is principally a mixture of Sanskrit and Greek. They grow grapes and make wine (an illegal action in an Islamic country) and their diet is rich in fruits, vegetables and nuts. Unlike their neighbors who sit on the ground, they use stools and chairs and their carpentry is decorated with Macedonian stars and "suns".

The Kalash people are virtually the only tourist attraction in Pakistan. However, the Kalash do not depend on tourism for survival; it is quite the opposite. The building of infrastructure to accommodate all those tourist "invaders" has brought an unprecedented pollution that the Kalash did not have to face during the 2000 years of isolation.

Recently, a group of Greek teachers have been raising money and spending their summer vacations among the Kalash for the last 7 years in an attempt to improve their standard of living. Some of the projects that the teacher volunteers have accomplished include the following: a primary school at an elevation of some 3 km, which is regarded the largest primary school building in Pakistan; water pipes for the supply of running water; a house for new mothers; landscaping and providing resource materials and pharmaceutical supplies. In this way the volunteers have contributed immensely to the preservation of the Kalash.

In the 19th century the British officers and scholars in India kept a romantic belief that, like the lost tribes of Israel, also a lost tribe of Europe of Alexander's Greeks may have survived somewhere in Afghanistan. The popular movie entitled "The Man Who Would Be King" starring Sean Connery was based upon that legend.

Other Greek Influences
Other remnants of the ancient Greek influence in the area are the characteristic "double-hat" or kausia, the ancient Macedonian hat, the Macedonian cloak or sari as worn by most women today and the polo on horseback, Pakistan's national sport. It was practiced by the Macedonian troops in the days of Alexander due to an unusual "present" given to Alexander by the great Persian king Darius.

When Alexander invaded the outlining areas of the Persian Empire and demanded taxes from Darius, the king refused, so Alexander threatened to invade. The king then sent him a bat with a ball so that the young Alexander can play ! "Those would be more appropriate to a novice than the arms of battle," thought the King. Alexander replied : "The ball is the Earth and I am the bat". A year later, Darius lost the battle and he was dead the following year.


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Endnotes
1 The spread of Islam in Asia Minor and southeastern Europe from about 1,000 A.D. to the beginning of the 20th century had similar effects on the millions of its inhabitants : genocide with torture and slavery for the survivors. This became effective because the attackers had secured the help of the "superpowers" at the time who were gaining commercial benefits while assisting the spread of Islam. The recent adventure in Afghanistan will probably turn out to have different effects than the "official" aim of the operation. [back]

2 The name Yunnan simply means Greek or Ionians, the ancient tribe that migrated eastwards for reasons of trade. The inhabitants of countries east of Greece refer to the country as Yunan or Yunnan. On the other hand, to the west all countries refer to the country as Greece. The ancient Romans introduced this name when they came into contact with "Greek" colonists from a place called Grea. However, the "Greeks" call themselves Hellenes, from the country Hellas.[back]


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Bibliography:
1. Distributed information by "The Friends Of The Kalash", 1995 to 2001
2. Issigonis, M. Map of New Hellas (Afghanistan & Pakistan ) with original Greek names, 1994
3. Narain, A.K. The Indo-Greeks, 1962
4. National Geographic Magazine, Oct. 1981
5. Plutarch, Book III
6. Tarn, W.W. The Greeks in Bactria and India, 1984
7. Toynbee, A.J. Between Oxus and Jumna, 1961
8. Woodcock, G. The Greeks in India, 1966, Faber and Faber

Coin Issue....

Coins are reflections of history! The study of coins, also called numismatics , has been crucial in deciphering history. The study of ancient and medieval coinage have authenticated historical events known from literature, artifacts and archaeological findings. Indeed, the history of the Indian subcontinent and it's coinage share the complexities as evident in presence of hundreds of dynasties and their attempt to issue distinct coinage over thousands of years. Paradoxically this very facet made the study of Indian history and numismatics an interesting but challenging proposition. Modern research in numismatics led to discoveries which firmly established existence of numerous rulers (and on many occasions entire dynasty!), as no trace of their presence can be found today. We learned a lot about the early dynasties of Indian subcontinent mostly because of meticulous and systematic numismatic research done in last couple of centuries. Indeed, Kharoshthi and Brahmi, the ancient scripts of India are deciphered from bilingual coins of Indo-Greek and Kushan rulers. Essentially, it was the deciphering of Kharoshthi and Brahmi (by James Princep) which allowed historians to read the ancient rock and other inscriptions and thus whole history of ancient India was unfolded. Further, the evolution of the designs, the changes in the languages, scripts and dates shown on the coins, enabled scholars to establish the sequence of rise and fall of kingdoms and their rulers. The provenance of the coin hoards also helped to determine the region occupied and governed by the numerous emperors and kings over last three millenniums.

India, which historically includes Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Afghanistan, is also known as Bharat Varsha, a land of famous King Bharata or Hindustan. The name `India' was applied to this country by Greeks. Aryans, the early inhabitants of the subcontinent were mystified by the mighty river which they named Sindhu (in Sanskrit, it means `like an ocean'). The river Sindhu or Sindh was called Indus by Greeks and thus the country was called India. The size of the Indian subcontinent is enormous which is almost as large as Europe without Russia or twenty times bigger than Great Britain. In ancient Sanskrit text Vishnu Purana, it is written that all the descendents of Bharata (people of India) have been given the land of thousand Yojanas (leagues) which stretch from snowy mountains of Himalayas in the north to Adam's bridge in the south, and from the valley of Bramhaputra river in the east to the land beyond seven mouths of Indus in west.

The Indo-Greeks

After the fall of the Mauryans, there was the emergence of brahmanical dynasties like Sungas and Kanvas which ruled for few years. But the most important development in the post Mauryan period was the arrival of foreign tribal groups into India. Most of these belonged to the category of Indo-Greeks, while some groups came from Iran and Afghanistan and also China. There was the emergence of new dynasties like the Kalinga royal family and Satavahanas in the deccan.

INDO-GREEKS
During 200 B.C. there were many invasions. The Indo-Greeks from the region of Afghanistan began the attack of Indian territories. The weak successors of Asoka were not in a position to fight against this invasion by the Bactrians. But the Greeks could not establish a permanent rule in India. The most famous king among them was King Menander also called Milinda who wrote Milindapanha or ‘The Questions of King Milinda’. He supported Buddhism. The Indo- Greek kings issued large number of coins. They were the first to issue gold coins in India. The Indians learned the Greek style of art which is found in Gandhara style of art.


THE SAKAS
The Greeks were followed by the Shakas who established their powers in different regions of India. The Indian kings could not show much resistance against the Shakas. But in 58 B.C. it is said that King Vikramaditya defeated the Shakas. The most famous Shaka ruler in India was Rudradaman I.

Indo-Greek Kingdom


Maximum extent of Indo-Greek territory circa 175 BCE.The Indo-Greeks (or sometimes Greco-Indians) designate a series of Greek kings, who invaded and controlled parts of northwest and northern India from 180 BCE to around 10 CE. They were the successors in India of the Greco-Bactrian dynasty of Greek kings (the Euthydemids) founded by the military governor Diodotus around 250 BCE when he established the independence of his Bactrian territory from the Seleucid Empire.

During the two centuries of their rule, the Indo-Greek kings combined the Greek and Indian languages and symbols, as seen on their coins, and blended Ancient Greek, Hindu and Buddhist religious practices, as seen in the archaeologically remains of their cities and in the indications of their support of Buddhism. The Indo-Greek kings seem to have achieved a level of cultural syncretism with no equivalent in history, the consequences of which are still felt today, particularly through the diffusion and influence of Greco-Buddhist art.
They ultimately disappeared as a political entity around 10 CE following the invasions of the Indo-Scythian, Indo-Parthian and Kushans, although pockets of Greek populations probably remained for several centuries longer.

Hellenistic world


Some of the Edicts of Ashoka inscriptions describe the efforts made by Ashoka to propagate the Buddhist faith throughout the Hellenistic world, which at that time formed an uninterrupted continuum from the borders of India to Greece. The Edicts indicate a clear understanding of the political organization in Hellenistic territories: the names and location of the main Greek monarchs of the time are identified, and they are claimed as recipients of Buddhist proselytism: Antiochus II Theos of the Seleucid Kingdom (261–246 BCE), Ptolemy II Philadelphos of Egypt (285–247 B.C.), Antigonus Gonatas of Macedonia (276–239 BCE), Magas of Cyrene (288–258 BCE), and Alexander of Epirus (272–255 BCE).


Buddhist proselytism at the time of king Ashoka (260–218 BCE).
"The conquest by Dharma has been won here, on the borders, and even six hundred yojanas (4,000 miles) away, where the Greek king Antiochos rules, beyond there where the four kings named Ptolemy, Antigonos, Magas and Alexander rule, likewise in the south among the Cholas, the Pandyas, and as far as Tamraparni." (Edicts of Ashoka, 13th Rock Edict, S. Dhammika)
Furthermore, according to Pali sources, some of Ashoka's emissaries were Greek Buddhist monks, indicating close religious exchanges between the two cultures:

""When the thera Moggaliputta, the illuminator of the religion of the Conqueror (Ashoka), had brought the (third) council to an end (...) he sent forth theras, one here and one there: (...) and to Aparantaka he sent the Greek (Yona) named Dhammarakkhita". (Mahavamsa XII).
It is not clear how much these interactions may have been influential, but some authors have commented that some level of syncretism between Hellenist thought and Buddhism may have started in Hellenic lands at that time. They have pointed to the presence of Buddhist communities in the Hellenistic world around that period, in particular in Alexandria (mentioned by Clement of Alexandria), and to the pre-Christian monastic order of the Therapeutae (possibly a deformation of the Pali word "Theravada"), who may have "almost entirely drawn (its) inspiration from the teaching and practices of Buddhist ascetism" (Robert Lissen).


Coin of the Hebrew King Alexander Jannaeus (103-76 BCE), with eight-spoked wheel.
From around 100 BCE, "star within a diadem" symbols, also alternatively described as "eight-spoked wheels" and possibly infuenced by the design of the Buddhist Dharma wheel, appear on the coinage of the Hebrew King Alexander Jannaeus (103-76 BCE). Alexander Jannaeus was associated with the phil-Hellenic sect of the Sadducees and the monastic order of the Essenes, themselves precursors of Christianity. These representations of eight-spoked wheels continued under the reign of his widow, Queen Alexandra, until the Roman invasion of Judea in 63 BCE.

Buddhist gravestones from the Ptolemaic period have also been found in Alexandria, decorated with depictions of the Dharma wheel (Tarn, "The Greeks in Bactria and India"). Commenting on the presence of Buddhists in Alexandria, some scholars have even pointed out that ?It was later in this very place that some of the most active centers of Christianity were established? (Robert Linssen "Zen living").

Greco-Buddhist interaction (2nd c. BCE–1st c. CE)

Silver drachm of Menander I (reigned c. 160–135 BCE).
Obv: Greek legend, BASILEOS SOTHROS MENANDROY lit. "Saviour King Menander".
In the areas west of the Indian subcontinent, neighboring Greek kingdoms had been in place in Bactria (today's northern Afghanistan) since the time of the conquests of Alexander the Great around 326 BCE: first the Seleucids from around 323 BCE, then the Greco-Bactrian kingdom from around 250 BCE.


A Greco-Buddhist statue, one of the first representations of the Buddha, 1st-2nd century CE, Gandhara.
The Greco-Bactrian king Demetrius I invaded India in 180 BCE as far as Pataliputra, establishing an Indo-Greek kingdom that was to last in various part of northern India until the end of the 1st century BCE. Buddhism flourished under the Indo-Greek kings, and it has been suggested that their invasion of India was intended to show their support for the Mauryan empire, and to protect the Buddhist faith from the religious persecutions of the Sungas (185–73 BCE).

One of the most famous Indo-Greek kings is Menander (reigned c. 160–135 BCE). He apparently converted to Buddhism and is presented in the Mahayana tradition as one of the great benefactors of the faith, on a par with king Ashoka or the later Kushan king Kanishka. Menander's coins bear the mention "Saviour king" in Greek, and "Great king of the Dharma" in Kharoshthi script. Direct cultural exchange is suggested by the dialogue of the Milinda Panha between the Greek king Menander and the monk Nagasena around 160 BCE. Upon his death, the honour of sharing his remains was claimed by the cities under his rule, and they were enshrined in stupas, in a parallel with the historic Buddha (Plutarch, Praec. reip. ger. 28, 6).

The interaction between Greek and Buddhist cultures may have had some influence on the evolution on Mahayana, as the faith developed its sophisticated philosophical approach and a man-god treatment of the Buddha somewhat reminiscent of Hellenic gods. It is also around that time that the first anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha are found, often in realistic Greco-Buddhist style: "One might regard the classical influence as including the general idea of representing a man-god in this purely human form, which was of course well familiar in the West, and it is very likely that the example of westerner's treatment of their gods was indeed an important factor in the innovation" (Boardman, "The Diffusion of Classical Art in Antiquity" ).

Indeed the earliest images of Buddha Siddharta Gautama are derived from greek sculptures. Later on the facial features were adjusted to the area's where buddhism flourished (i.e. more Mongoloid facial features).

I disagree with this notion. Despite the fact the Hellenic Gods posses much more human habits then in other religions, the Buddha itself (even the first Buddha Siddharta) was never viewed nor worshipped as a god and therefor the Buddhistic concept and view on Buddha is nothing like the man-god view on the Hellenic Gods. Also reaching enlightenment, the Buddha transcends the human state. Thus the concept of Buddha is nothing like man, God nor somewhat between.

On a academic/Theoretic basis we can disagree indeed...
But what me concerned more about...was the Influence...2 centuries of hellenistic culture...

I have there an theorie which would be very interesting to analyze..
What would happen if Alexander didnt died so early...?
What would happend if he managed to make the Arabian march which was prepered by hes military in Babylon...?
He would propably arrieved after travling along the whole Arabic peninsula...in Alexandria...
afterwoulds maybe he would for shure strike the Carthaginias...and cros over to Spain...trough Galien..and than Via Rome to the greek south of Italy...Magna Grecia...
So propably he would eraze the Vilage of Rome...
Which isnt the most important fact...
But if the Romans wouldn rise...Than Christianity wouldn either...
As known fact are ..That Alexander him self haid contact with "Indian Gurus/Brahmans/ and was impressed by there capabillitys...and there spirit...

So the most propably thing that could arise...is that the whole world would be something between the heelenistic poluytheism 12 Gods and Budhism..?

Now there is an nice analysis dont you think...lol..?


Regards

Ah the if's of history, indeed a nice analysis.

Likewise during the late Roman era a large part of the Turkic clans in Northern China and Central Asia followed Buddhism, aside their Altaic Shamanism beliefs. History and the Turkic states would have been very different if the Buddhistic Turkic clans did not become Sinicized and Buddhism would have become/remained the main religion among the Turkic Clans.

However one could contemplate about an alternate history for his entire lifetime yet achieve nothing in his life. We must accept the past as it is and learn what we can from it rather then to think of alternate scenario's for our personal fantasies.

Great endeavours, Lord. BRAVO.

@123-t Thanks ..more to come...i was scanning last night a ton of articels...soon iam ready plus some other articels that i scanned to bring it here...

Now to my beloved yiyen...CID

Actually ...such academic/theoretical disuccions..are very comon in any University...
This theory above is actually discussed many times...among professors and historians world wide...and as you know the most of this class professors are not "fantasy" lovers nor science fintion fan...lol Dr. Fischer Fabian in hes book wrote about .."What could be IF"...So i wouldnt dair to call such people story tellers or fantasy lovers... ;)
another point is ...for me personal ...alot of time in history...great achievements or discoverys were made only with alot of fantasy...
paradigm...
If schliemann didnt haid hes fiction and fantasy...Mycene and Troy would be propably till now a "myth"...undiscovered...and without this achievements alot of others wouldnt follow the path of discovery either...
Fantasy...and vission...is needed do make great discoverys or even analysis... ;)

Regards

Hm yes abi, fiction and fantasy is good for explorers and reseachers spirit.
But personally I dont see the point about fictioning about history, or perhaps what we know about history is mostly fiction LOL

Anyway I think either these historians have too much free time or I am too narrow minded on the subject to see the point of it.

No Yiyen especially you...are not narrow minded...
Its a style of thinking..i suppose...which is "there" Wargaming...somekind of way...lol
I like to hear such theories...

Regards

Ps.Uff...i finished the scanning...but now i have to get the to arcor...to put them in here...I think i will do it tomorrow... :drink:

One very interestin thing, both the Alexandrian conquest and the much later Turko-Mongol conquest of Indian peninsula could only advance to the same distance. The different socio - religious structure in India makes it very difficult for any invader to truly conquer the people..

Nice analysis Beleg. Well the cunning British managed it for a while, ofcourse dividing the Indian people supporting one against another.

By the way Hinduism is a great strength for the Indian scoiety against foreigners in the past. The strength lies in that Hinduism can assimilate practically any other religion into herself. For example Buddha Siddharta was accepted as Hindu God, because of this Buddhism is practically non existant in India where it originates from. Also the monotheistic God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam has been accepted as a Hindu God, though the succes of it was and is less. Christians and Muslims havent adopted Hinduism that much.

Test

The Kalas People...Decents of the Greeks

___________________

Now..Who ever dares to translate this articels...will be for ever in the Honorary Guard of the WCF...getting the Honorary Members Status...(Something that we give very rarerly...)


Lord out for the moment...

Some very conected and interesting articels to read...

http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm

http://www.creternity.com/article.phtml?ar...&page=1&catID=3

I could provide more links...which more than 90% of them in the Net are positive to our "Greek" researches

WOW lord good work

SELEUCID EMPIRE


The Seleucid Empire was a Hellenistic Greek successor state of Alexander the Great's dominion.

There were over 30 kings of the Seleucid dynasty from 323 to 60 BC.

The partitionia of Alexander's empire (323-281 BC)

Alexander the Great had conquered the Persian Empire within a short time-frame and died young, leaving an expansive empire of partly Hellenized culture without an adult heir. Therefore his generals (the Diadochi) jostled for supremacy over portions of his empire.

Seleucus, one of his generals, established himself in Babylon in 312 BC, used as the foundation date of the Seleucid Empire. He ruled over not only Babylonia, but the entire enormous eastern part of Alexander's Empire. Following his and Lysimachus' victory over Antigonus Monophthalmus at the Battle of Ipsus in 301 BC, Seleucus took control over eastern Anatolia and northern Syria. In the latter area he founded a new capital at Antioch on the Orontes, a city he named after his father. An alternative capital was established at Seleucia on the Tigris, north of Babylon. Seleucus' empire reached its greatest extent following his defeat of his erstwhile ally, Lysimachus, at Corupedion in 281 BC. Seleucus expanded his control to encompass western Anatolia. He hoped further to take control of Lysimachus' lands in Europe - primarily Thrace and even Macedonia itself, but was assassinated by Ptolemy Ceraunus on landing in Europe. His son and successor, Antiochus I Soter, proved unable to pick up where his father had left off in conquering the European portions of Alexander's empire, but was left, nevertheless, with an enormous realm consisting of nearly all of the Asian portions of the Empire. His competitors were Antigonus II Gonatas in Macedonia and Ptolemy II Philadelphus in Egypt.The Seleucid empire's geographic span, from the Aegean Sea to Afghanistan, brought together a multitude of races: Greeks, Persians, Medes, Jews, Indians, to mention only some. Its rulers were in the position of having a governing interest to implement a policy of racial unity initiated by Alexander. By 313 BC, Hellenic ideas had begun their almost 250-year expansion into the Near East, Middle East, and Central Asian cultures. It was the empire's governmental framework to rule by establishing hundreds of cities for trade and occupational purposes. Established communities and cities began to adopt -- many were compelled by force -- Hellenized philosophic thought, religious sentiments, and politics. Synthesizing Hellenic and indigenous cultural, religious, and philosophical ideas met with varying degrees of success -- resulting in times of simultaneous peace and rebellion in various parts of the empire.

An overextended domain

Nevertheless, even before Seleucus' death, the vast eastern domains of the Seleucids were proving difficult to assert control over. Seleucus had invaded India (modern Punjab in northern India and Pakistan) in 304 BC, leading to conflict with the Maurya empire ruled by Chandragupta Maurya (Sandrokottos). It is said that Chandragupta fielded an army of 100,000 men and 9,000 war elephants, and forced Seleucus to conclude an alliance and give him his daughter in marriage. In exchange Chandragupta gave him no less than 500 elephants, an addition to his army that was to play a prominent part in his victory at Ipsus.

Seleucus sent an ambassador named Megasthenes to Chandragupta's court, who repeatedly visited Pataliputra (modern Patna in Bihar state), capital of Chandragupta. Megasthenes wrote detailed descriptions of India and Chandragupta's reign, which have been partly preserved to us through Diodorus Siculus.

Other territories lost before Seleucus' death were Gedrosia in the south-east of the Iranian plateau, and, to the north of this, Arachosia on the west bank of the Indus River. Antiochus I (reigned 281-261 BC) and his son and successor Antiochus II Theos (reigned 261-246 BC) were faced with challenges in the west, including repeated wars with Ptolemy II and a Celtic invasion of Asia Minor -- distracting attention from holding the eastern portions of the Empire together. Towards the end of Antiochus II's reign, the eastern provinces of Bactria and Parthia simultaneously asserted their independence.

Greco-Bactrian secession (250 BC)
Diodotus, governor for the Bactrian territory, asserted independence in 250 BC to form the Greco-Bactrian kingdom. This kingdom was characterized by a rich Hellenistic culture, and was to continue its domination of Bactria until around 125 BC, when it was overrun by the invasion of northern nomads. One of the Greco-Bactrian kings, Demetrius I of Bactria, invaded India around 180 BC to form the Greco-Indian kingdom, lasting until 1 BC.

Parthian secession (250 BC)
A Parthian tribal chief called Arsaces took over the Parthian territory from the Seleucid Empire around 250 BC to form the Arsacid Dynasty -- the starting point of the powerful Parthian Empire.

Eclipse and revival
By the time Antiochus II's son Seleucus II Callinicus came to the throne around 246 BC, the Seleucids seemed to be at a low ebb indeed. Aside from the secessions of Parthia and Bactria, Seleucus II was soon dramatically defeated in the Third Syrian War against Ptolemy III of Egypt, then had to fight a civil war against his own brother Antiochus Hierax. In Asia Minor too, the Seleucid dynasty seemed to be losing control -- Gauls had fully established themselves in Galatia, semi-independent semi-Hellenized kingdoms had sprung up in Bithynia, Pontus, and Cappadocia, and the city of Pergamum in the west was asserting its independence under the Attalid Dynasty.

But a revival would begin when Seleucus II's younger son, Antiochus III the Great, took the throne in 223 BC. Although initially unsuccessful in the Fourth Syrian War against Egypt, which led to an embarrassing defeat at the Battle of Raphia (217 BC), Antiochus would prove himself to be the greatest of the Seleucid rulers after Seleucus I himself. Following his defeat at Raphia, he spent the next ten years on his Anabasis through the eastern parts of his domain -- restoring rebellious vassals like Parthia and Bactria to at least nominal obedience, and even emulating Alexander with an expedition into India.

When he returned to the west in 205 BC, Antiochus found that with the death of Ptolemy IV, the situation now looked propitious for another western campign.

Antiochus and Philip V of Macedon then made a compact to divide the Ptolemaic possessions outside of Egypt, and in the Fifth Syrian War, the Seleucids ousted Ptolemy V from control of Coele-Syria. The Battle of Panium (198 BC) definitively transferred these holdings from the Ptolemies to the Seleucids. Antiochus appeared, at the least, to have restored the Seleucid Kingdom to glory.

The power of Rome and renewed disintegration
But Antiochus' glory was not to last for long. Following his erstwhile ally Philip's defeat at the hands of Rome in 197 BC, Antiochus now saw the opportunity for expansion into Greece. Encouraged by the exiled Carthaginian general Hannibal, and making an alliance with the disgruntled Aetolian League, Antiochus invaded Greece. Unfortunately, this decision led to his downfall: he was defeated by the Romans at Thermopylae (191 BC) and Magnesia (190 BC), and was forced to make peace with the Romans by the embarrassing Treaty of Apamia (188 BC) -- which forced him to abandon all European territories, ceded all of Asia Minor north of the Taurus Mountains to Pergamum, and set a large indemnity to be paid. Antiochus died in 187 BC on another expedition to the east, where he sought to extract money to pay the indemnity.

The reign of his son and successor Seleucus IV Philopator (187-175 BC) was largely spent in attempts to pay the large indemnity, and Seleucus was ultimately assassinated by his minister Heliodorus. Seleucus' younger brother, Antiochus IV Epiphanes, now seized the throne. He attempted to restore Seleucid prestige with a successful war against Egypt; but despite driving the Egyptian army back to Alexandria itself, he was forced to withdraw by the Roman envoy Popilius Laena, who famously drew a circle in the sand around the king and told him he had to decide whether or not to withdraw from Egypt before leaving the circle. Antiochus chose to withdraw.

The latter part of his reign saw the further disintegration of the Empire. The Eastern areas remained nearly uncontrollable, as Parthians began to take over the Persian lands; and Antiochus' aggressive Hellenizing (or de-Judaizing) activities led to armed rebellion in Judaea -- the Maccabee revolt. Efforts to deal with both the Parthians and the Jews proved fruitless, and Antiochus himself died during an expedition against the Parthians in 164 BC.

Civil war and further decay
After the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid Empire became increasingly unstable. Frequent civil wars made central authority tenuous at best. Epiphanes' young son, Antiochus V Eupator, was first overthrown by Seleucus IV's son, Demetrius I Soter in 161 BC. Demetrius I attempted to restore Seleucid power in Judea particularly, but was overthrown in 150 BC by Alexander Balas -- an impostor who (with Egyptian backing) claimed to be the son of Epiphanes. Alexander Balas reigned until 145 BC, when he was overthrown by Demetrius I's son, Demetrius II Nicator. Demetrius II proved unable to control the whole of the kingdom, however. While he ruled Babylonia and eastern Syria from Damascus, the remnants of Balas' supporters -- first supporting Balas' son Antiochus VI, then the usurping general Diodotus Tryphon -- held out in Antioch.

Meanwhile, the decay of the Empire's territorial possessions continued apace. By 143 BC, the Jews had fully established their independence. Parthian expansion continued as well. In 139 BC, Demetrius II was defeated in battle by the Parthians and was captured. By this time, the entire Iranian Plateau had been lost to Parthian control. Demetrius Nicator's brother, Antiochus VII, was ultimately able to restore a fleeting unity and vigour to the Seleucid domains, but he too proved unequal to the Parthian threat: he was killed in battle with the Parthians in 129 BC, leading to the final collapse of the Seleucid hold on Babylonia. After the death of Antiochus VII, all effective Seleucid rule collapsed, as multiple claimants contested control of what was left of the Seleucid realm in almost unending civil war.

Collapse of the Seleucid Empire
By 100 BC, the once formidable Seleucid Empire encompassed little more than Antioch and some Syrian cities. Despite the clear collapse of their power, and the decline of their kingdom around them, nobles continued to play kingmakers on a regular basis, with occasional intervention from Ptolemaic Egypt and other outside powers. The Seleucids existed solely because no other nation wished to absorb them -- seeing as they constituted a useful buffer between their other neighbours. In the wars in Anatolia between Mithridates VI of Pontus and Sulla of Rome, the Seleucids were largely left alone by both major combatants.

Mithridates' ambitious son-in-law, Tigranes the Great, king of Armenia, however, saw opportunity for expansion in the constant civil strife to the south. In 83 BC, at the invitation of one of the factions in the interminable civil wars, he invaded Syria, and soon established himself as ruler of Syria, putting Seleucid rule virtually at an end.

Seleucid rule was not entirely at an end, however. Following the Roman general Lucullus' defeat of both Mithridates and Tigranes in 69 BC, a rump Seleucid kingdom was restored under Antiochus XIII. Even now, civil wars could not be prevented, as another Seleucid, Philip II, contested rule with Antiochus. After the Roman conquest of Pontus, the Romans became increasingly alarmed at the constant source of instability in Syria under the Seleucids. Once Mithridates was defeated by Pompey in 63 BC, Pompey set about the task of remaking the Hellenistic East, by creating new client kingdoms and establishing provinces. While client nations like Armenia and Judea were allowed to continue some degree of autonomy under local kings, Pompey saw the Seleucids as too troublesome to continue; and doing away with both rival Seleucid princes, he made Syria into a Roman province.

Seleucid rulers
* Seleucus I Nicator (Satrap 311–305 BC, King 305 BC–281 BC)
* Antiochus I Soter (co-ruler from 291, ruled 281–261 BC)
* Antiochus II Theos (261–246 BC)
* Seleucus II Callinicus ( 246–225 BC)
* Seleucus III Ceraunus (or Soter) ( 225–223 BC)
* Antiochus III the Great (223–187 BC)
* Seleucus IV Philopator (187–175 BC)
* Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175–164 BC)
* Antiochus V Eupator (164–162 BC)
* Demetrius I Soter (161–150 BC)
* Alexander I Balas (154–145 BC)
* Demetrius II Nicator (first reign, 145–138 BC)
* Antiochus VI Dionysus (or Epiphanes) (145–140 BC?)
* Diodotus Tryphon (140?–138 BC)
* Antiochus VII Sidetes (or Euergetes) ( 138–129 BC)
* Demetrius II Nicator (second reign, 129–126 BC)
* Alexander II Zabinas (129–123 BC)
* Cleopatra Thea (126–123 BC)
* Seleucus V Philometor (126/125 BC)
* Antiochus VIII Grypus (125–96 BC)
* Antiochus IX Cyzicenus (114–96 BC)
* Seleucus VI Epiphanes Nicator (96–95 BC)
* Antiochus X Eusebes Philopator (95–92 BC or 83 BC)
* Demetrius III Eucaerus (or Philopator) (95–87 BC)
* Antiochus XI Epiphanes Philadelphus (95–92 BC)
* Philip I Philadelphus (95–84/83 BC)
* Antiochus XII Dionysus (87–84 BC)
* (Tigranes I of Armenia) (83–69 BC)
* Seleucus VII Kybiosaktes or Philometor (70s BC–60s BC?)
* Antiochus XIII Asiaticus (69–64 BC)
* Philip II Philoromaeus (65–63 BC)