The point is...

Are these good or bad news?

Damn... too complicate...

As far as I remember, at least Taiwan and Australia were ahead in line for any, any possible Burke transfer.

With this in mind, it seems 2 existing frigates (of the 10 Kortenaer/Standard and 4 Meko's) will have to be decommissioned to make room for the Burke's and keep the fleet at 14. Most likely 2 of the Kort's will be scrapped at first. Which seems odd since these 2 would probably be from the batch of 4 that just transferred (with no Phalanx and probably not part of the 6 to be modernized). However, for Greece to continue maintaining a large fleet of Kortenaer's it definately requires at least 1 or 2 parts hulks to support the ships. Compare with Turkey which also received a total of 10 Perry's but seperated 2 for parts. As time goes on and reality sinks in (I don't think the Dutch have any Kort's left to give), the Greek navy is in urgent need for parts sources and may be considering cannibilizing at least 2 of the Kort's to maintain the rest. What better then to replace these with... possibly Burke's. ;) :drink2:

i would worry about the know frigates first efeler than the kortnerers.

@Boulio, Greece has decomission Knox Frigates some years ago. ;)

I am sure that Boulio was referring to the Knox's being used by Turkey. Well, Turkey has a number of spare Knox hulls. But let's not forget that Hellas received an AMPLE supply of spares (including engines) for the Standard frigates.

I don't think that we need that much spare frigates in order to mantain the Kortanears fleet operational.We have shipyards capable to repair whatever damage they could take.But surely having spare parts is droping cost and repair time to minimum.

:attention:

What about talking a bit about Arleigh Burkes? :angry:

LOL.You are right. :friendship:

Just to bring up as a discussion point, why in the world would the HN need such a capability in the Aegean when it can buy more medium to high altitude SAM batteries then the TAF can shake a stick at and spread them across the Aegean, there by creating the same effect as a couple of floating platforms. Would this not be more cost effective method of providing fleet AAW capability? If the HN were indeed to purchase these frigates, which I doubt will include Tomahawks, they will be extremely high value targets for the TAF and TN, and I would assume some sort of counter threat would have to be establidhed in th form of shore based ASM's or longer ranged sub based ASM's like the Popeye Turbo.

That's a question I also question myself... Therefore my comment at my first post... I'm not sure if it is wise to have these giants in the Aegean...

Because they would be great assets if need be concerning defending shipping lanes and tranports if operations were shifted to cyprus.

We need them to provide anti aircraft cover for our nacal battlegroups.An Aegis frigate is a tough target and it operates together with subs,other ships and airforce.So its gonna take something more than '' buying just some missiles'' in order to take her out......

These ships would probably focus on covering and blocking the Crete-North Africa corridor. Essentially stopping any shipping from the western Med./Atlantic to Turkish ports, in essence blockading all Turkish searoutes to the outside world not including the Suez canal.

The Turkish answer will most probably be... [drum roll]... the construction of 4 AIP subs with Popeye subsurface after the last Gur class is completed, plus 2-4 destroyers of most likely Spruance class for 2006 after. Long ranged land based SSM's are also in the works (check Israeli LORA, Chinese S-300 anti-ship version, and other domestics...)

Hm,so you gonna spend about 10 billion euro to counter our AAW frigates....I'd love to see where you gonna get that money from,and I guess E.U. economical observors too. :D

I don't think that the Burke's size is going to be so much of a problem in the Aegean. If the Navy believes that the LSV A374 Promitheas (Etna class-bigger than the Burke) is safe in the Aegean, then the 100+ missile (SM-2 and ESSM) carying Burkes will be ok!

Ten billion! No way. The 4 subs should cost less then 2 billion max. Considering the Preveze/Gur's costed only about $180 million each and the only difference is AIP! The 2 secondhand Spruance (already offered as 1 sale, 1 grant), should be no more then 200 million weapons included. The SSM's and possibly Popeye subsurface should be less then 2 billion in total. So we're more realistically looking at less then 4 billion. A Burke costed $1 billion brand new... I wonder how much the US will be asking IF they do deside to sell... :attention:

True, Burke is not that huge of a ship. Only about 15m longer then the Perry. However it may have trouble passing through the Corinth canal as discussed in another thread... ;)

Why would they need to pass through Corinth in the first place?The main base of the Navy is in Salamis in the Athen's bay...I don't think the Turkish nave will try to operate in the Ionian sea anyway.If it does,it will have no air cover,supposing it will manage to circumnavigate Peloponnese so to pose threat to western islands.

True, it's not that big of a deal U-boot. Just a small impediment to deployment issues in case the ship needed to be transfered quickly from the Ionian to the Aegean and back. All other Greek ships are capable of passing. Also is there not any Greek naval presence in the Ionian? (I believe there is a small Turkish naval contingent at the Pasalimani naval base in Albania... :sneaky: )

The only port which is able to support these huge monsters is only the naval base in crete anyway....
And to use these ships in the adria is pure waste of ressources....

LOL.I don't think that the Albanians will let you use that naval station in case of a war with Greece.Even if they do,a couple of F-16s or even some Apaches would be enough to take care of it.I don't think though that the Turkish navy has any interest to operate in the Ionian sea.

I doubt there will be a Turkish military presence in the Ionian, but in any case, there are Hellenic Navy assets often present in both Kerkyra (Corfu) and Patra.

SCALP is right they are not just big they are also armed to the teeth.
As for the AA in the islands covering the whole Aegean. :damn:
Lets say 10 islands with 100 missiles makes 1000 missiles.
10 Radars and fire control systems
ASM missiles to protect the islands from enemy ships
soldiers to protect the island from enemy special forces
Etc. Etc.

WHERE are we going to found so many personel?

I thought Australia was going to buy Aegis systems fot the new ships they are going to build.What do they want the Burkes for?I say screw the Aussies and let the Chinese take Taiwan back! ;)

That way we will be on top of that list! :drink2:

Arleigh-Burke is a good military Ship. with two of those in the aegean (one in the North and one in South) we will have a vary good A/A defence in Aegean plus the missiles in the Islands. I will say we need one more (3 in total) so we can have it operate in the open sea betwean Rhodes and Cyprus
(ENIAIOS AMYNTIKOS XWROS- gia na min ksexniomaste)

THEY ARE PERFECT FOR US BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
DONT QUSTION ANYMORE THE NESSECITY PRESENCE OF THE MOST FORMIDABLE DESTROYERS IN THA NAVAL HISTORY OF THE WORLD TO THE GREEK NAVY!!!!
REGARDLESS THE MANCREW DEMANDS AND SIZE!!!!
STOP ARGUING AND QUESTIONING NOW!!!
WE GO BURKES!!!!! :thumbsup:

While you are at it exocet get a few Los Angeles class subs.. :thumbsup:

Is there already some news about the Aegis destroyers? What was the US reply on the Greek request of the Arleigh Burkes? Yes or No?

They said that they will consider our request.....

Don't think that we are going to get an answer anytime soon.

They needed 2 years to let the Germans give us 44 M-113!
I think we going to wait a bit longer for two Burkes! :P

This moment we can't afford new AAW frigates anyway.The americans know it.So they'll wait until we have the money and start looking around.I guess that when we start evaluating offers for new designs (German,French,etc...)they will offer the Aegis for lets say half price of new ones. ;)

I wouldn't be too optimistic about Aegis Destroyers. My reasons are: first, Taiwan requested Aegis/Burkes ships long time ago, then they had to settle with Kidds at the end...Taiwan needed these ships urgently, and USA is the very close ally of Taiwan in that region, still Taiwan could not get ships approved for sale. Secondly, Burke class ships will be very expensive for Greece if they are released with full weapon systems, Aegis System alone cost 300-400 million dollars...Each Burke ships costs over 1 billion dollars...How much Greece is willing to pay for these ships?...Third, USA will never approve original Aegis system for sale, except downgraded versions. Example, Spain, Norway got modified, simplified Aegis "alike" systems. Fourth, Greece still has to work out SM-2 release problem from USA...Turkish Navy has the same issue of course... and the last, USA NAvy is still commited to Burke/Aegis ships, not sure if they are planning to retire any of them in near future...

The US-navy has confirmed that all of the flight I Bourkes will be offered for sale....
Greece is officially on the "custom list".
Allthough I really hope we will go as fast as possible for some F-124/Horizon/FREMM and not for these huge monsters like the Bourkes.

Well one thing is sure, if Greece gets the Burkes with Aegis it would be a big slap in the face of the Turkish navy and a real source of concern.

The Spanish F100

The annual edition "Amyntiki Biblos 2005-2006" says that the Americans will Propably give us the Burkes but too expensive... close to a new european AAW Destroyer, so propably we won't get them...

They also say that the request is a part of the whole diplomatical game we play with the Americans... (greece military hub of the area, etc...) :dunno:

Personally I would like more some Horizons, or FREMMs... :thumbsup:

I would say the release of any Burke's would be dependent on the progress of the new DDX platform which is expected to be operational in the USN by 2013. Also about 20 Burke Flight IIA's are still under construction until about 2011. Thus if Greece were to eventually acquire Burke's (which would definately be no more then the oldest Flight I's) the time frame would most likely be in the vicinity of 2010 once the Flight IIA project comes to an end. Note that the USN has a tendency to get rid of ships no younger then 20 yrs old, in which the Flight I's will roughly be that age by 2010.

Spain received the SPY-1F version of the Aegis radar. As Robust said, it is probably a detuned version of the current SPY-1D's used in the Burkes, with the Flight IIA's expecting to upgrade to SPY-1D(V). Another more realistic possibility for Greece is to acquire the non-VLS versions of the Ticonderoga cruisers with the earlier SPY-1A's. Basically a Kidd-class with Aegis. Then again these are huge ships with a high manpower requirement. At the end of the scale, Spruance would be out of the question as the last/best equipped ships are reserved for Turkey (Greece rejected the earlier non modernized Spruances which were offered to them about 4 years).

It is reported that the Kidd's that Taiwan just began receiving after a 3-4 yr overhaul could have been retrofitted with VLS. Again, something that could be considered with the older Tico's (which Turkey should also consider). In my opinion the wait period for a Burke would be at least 2009-10, with a possible Tico option instead for 2007-08. Surplus Aegis ships (even the oldest ones) have never been transfered as of yet to any other nation and this notion reminds me of us Turkish forumers debating whether there would be a possibility of F-15A/B/C's transfered to Turkey...

Someone on the forum said the Turkish TF2000 frigate project is stalling because of the US refusal of delivering the Aegis radar, if that is the case what is keeping Turkey of using the Thales APAR radar which is more or less doing the same function?

Any developments about the issue lately?

@orko

Yap.. we will built 6 new vessels so i see no room for the Burkes :)

Its about a year since the Us said that they would consider our request.Its still too soon for a final decision..... :lol:

Which version of FREMM does Greece show interest in? The L.A. version with Scalp Naval looks cool imo.