Hi, I'm new to this forum, though not to warhammer which I've been playing for some time now.

Okay, I need help facing the ultimate empire gunline. I challenged him for next sunday (15th), and really want to beat him- his list is undefeated up to date; all the more reason to show him!
We're playing 2500 points, here's what he fields:

Templar Grand Master (with white wolves)
Captain (with great swords) (BSB with griffon standard)
Warrior priest on warhorse (with speculum) (with knightly order)
Wizard (Lvl1, heavens, 2 scrolls)
Core:
10 handgunners
10 IC Knightly order
10 IC White wolves
Special:
20 Great swords with 2 detachments (handgunners + free company)
3x Great cannon
Rare:
Helblaster Volley gun
Stank with great cannon

This is what I have to beat...

Anyway, first I have to decide on what sort of army I should play. Either a storm swarm containing an oldblood jsod, 2x4 kroxigors, 5 CoR with huanchi's banner and a sacr-vet, 5 terradons, 6 salamanders, an fsod, and piles of skinks (2 scout units), or the same list as above but with a second generation slann in a templeguard unit, a scar-vet jsod, and only 2x3 krox + only 3 salamanders, and a lot less skinks, and also no fsod.

The first list without slann is probably better, I'd say. The templeguard would most likely die very rapidly, and jointed charges of knights and stank should finnish the rest off and run down the slann. On the other hand, the slann, if he has enough magic missiles, could rapidly diminish the cannon crew I'd say, and he could use steed of shadows to charge the jsod into the cannons on turn 1 (but the 2 scrolls will most likely prevent that).
Still, I believe that 4 great cannons and a helblaster volley gun will quickly diminish the kroxies and CoR, in list 1, and the rest of the army won't be able to do a lot after that. The 6 salamanders aren't really great against 1+/2+ armour save knights, nor are the terradons.

Thus I'm now considering using mengil's manhides instead of a unit of salamanders, seeing as they might actually achieve more, but I'm not sure yet.

I'd say the best approach would be to use the list without the slann, and take down the cannons as quickly as possible utilising the fsod, scouts and terradons, take down the stank with the oldblood jsod (hopefully), and then hope that the rest of my army is still intact to take down the knights. Once the knights, stank and cannons are out of the way the game would be basically over, 6 salamanders + ~70 skinks should finnish off any infantry unit out there.
Problem is getting that far- I don't know whether I can manage to silence the cannons by turn 2/3 latest, and then still have an army to take down the knights

Anyway, thats my part, now I'd like some imput from your side concerning this issue- which army should I use, what tactics, etcetc...

Thanks in advance!

To be perfectly honest, I beleive your primary concern should be the knights, not the cannons. Cannon crew arent that tough so you shouldnt have to assign too much to do damage. I'd consider a unit of chameleon skinks or posibly 2 small units of terries.

You should also give consideration to picking off his wizard early if possible. Its unlikely youll be able to but with his scroll caddy gone youll be free to cast all sorts of magic missile at his arty crews.

The knights however are the big issue. Though the cannon can do a lot of damage its thek nights that are going to finish you off.Try and get into combat with them and put the knight between you and his artillery. That way itll make the risk of firing into the combat pretty high and hopefully allow you to win the melee.



And because there seems to be a trend between unbeatable empire armies and a lack of terrain, im gonna say it wether you do or not: USE TERRAIN.

I'm not so sure about that one. My main concern is actually silencing the cannons. I know their crew is soft and vulnerable- that doesn't change the fact that they need to be removed, one way or the other, and I just don't think I can manage that fast enough.
Last game he fielded a similar, but slightly more assault orientated army (more knights, only 2 cannons, no helblaster). I did manage to pull off a solid victory, but his 2 cannons hurt. Badly. I shudder to think what 4 plus the helblaster will do :unsure:
The knights are, imo, not such a big deal. Divert with the skirmish screen in front of the kroxigors, and get them stuck in the templeguard units, then flank with kroxies/cavalry. The problem is having enough of an army left to accomplish this- enough templeguard need to be alive to hold to the charge, and the kroxies/cavalry must be present to deliver the killing blow. And with massed cannons, thats going to be difficult.
I'd say the cannons must be annihilated/tied up/prevented from shooting by turn 2- after that, my army will be hopelessly weak anyway, and he'll move in for the kill, even if I destroy his cannons at this later point (turn 3+). After the cannons are out of the way, the knights can be dealt with. The infantry isn't even worth mentioning ;)

Also, to be able to kill off the crew quickly my slann will need many magic missiles. However, he'll dispel one with his dice, and one with a scroll, for turns 1 and 2. That means I'll cast 3/5 of my spells per turn, providing I manage to cast them in the first place. Those will, obviously, be the weaker spells. And I hardly think 3 magic missiles d6 hits at s4 will kill many crew- maybe one crew member each, if I'm lucky.