I just wanted to ask if betta eggs can hatch without male caring for it.
After the embrace of the female and male betta the eggs are released.
At this point if male is removed can the eggs hatch by theselves with or without the bubblenest?
Artificial hatching sometimes is necessary when the male is a terrible egg eater.
Those who have done this have reported various amounts of success. It is generally agreed that eggs tended to the father are healthier and larger.
The males clean the eggs of fungus and other things that may attack the eggs. He also eats the infertile eggs, and studies have shown that eggs kept closer to the surface of the water have a better hatch rate, probably because of a better osmotic exchange of oxygen.
That being said, it IS possible to atrificial hatch eggs.
Here are some methods that have been used by other breeders..
I borrowed a VT male from a friend, and i knew i'd only get one chance at spawning him, so when he started to eat the eggs, I panicked and slid a polystyrene tray under the entire nest (the trays you get under meat from the supermarket), leaving it in the tank, and keeping all the eggs near the surface. 13 were infertile/fungussed, but daily water exchange between the tray and the tank kept it in check.
I have preferred to take the nests when concerned about an egg eater or just wanting to take no risks with an unknown male. I have also used this method to get three spawns from one male in five days . I think I let him tend the last spawn . I remember a lot of conversation and some videos ( Ed McGehee ) in the early 90s regarding artificial hatching / rearing techniques. I tried them all and then some . Ultimately I learned no complcated technique is necessary . Mine is the no technique or stolen nest method as I sometimes refer to it .Once the fish have spawned I take a piece of tupper ware or a bowl and slide it under the cup and nest and lift .Any eggs missed are placed in the container with a baster. I leave about one inch of water in the container .Any fungused eggs are removed with the baster over the next couple days. Once free swimming the fry are put back in a rearing tank. An 8x10 or so low edged container works well .Its easy to position the nest in the middle for lifting . It also allows the eggs to spread over a wide area which makes removal of fungused eggs easier. Once ive got the nest I get rid of the cup . Cheap plastic food storage containers work great and cost less than Tupper ware.I suppose you could also just remove the fish at the end of the spawn and leave the nest in the tank. The advantage of putting the nest in a small container is the easy removal of fungused eggs. I have used the stolen nest method 30-40 times over the years because it guarantees fry . If im nervous about a male and really want that spawn ,I just take the nest. Success rate is near 100% .Only failure and it wasnt total was when I fed brine in the small container and didnt remove the dead brine soon enough .Small amounts of water can sour quickly depleting oxygen and killing fry. Tha answer is to just put them back in a tank after hatching and becoming free swimming . As for spawning that male x3 in five days . He spawned ,I took the nest and introduced a new female. He built a new nest and spawned . I took the nest ,and introduced a new female .Each spawn was smaller but it worked. I covered a lot of genetic ground in five days. This is probably best done the week before the full moon when the fish are very anxious to spawn.
No need for aeration. It is not necessary. Oxygen exchange at the water surface is adequate. I have full confidence in the stolen nest method. Another advantage of the plastic container is you can put a light underneath as an aid to see fungused eggs.
i have used artificial hatching with success. twice.
ive used these 2 methods, of my own making.
ok.
i have successfully hatched fry using 2 methods of artificial hatching:
by the way, ive used both without knowing of other methods, so are originals for me.
"whole tank method"
my spawn tank was about 17 liters of water full.....those big critterkeeper type ones.
have a normal setup, with plants, sponge filter and heater.
ok, once the pair has spawned, remove both the male and the female, and leave the nest alone.
get a piece of airline tubing with an 'air controlling tap thingy' and conect this to an air pump.
position the airline so that it is blowing bubbles next to the nest, but not powerfull enuf to damage the nest.
you might want to add abit of fungus killer to the tank just in case ......correct me Lily
if any eggs or fry fall to the bottom, you could suck them up and drop them along the glass wall so ther stay on surface tension, or you could just leave them....i left em on the bottom.
then they hatch, and you can can raise like normall.
next method:
cup method:
get a clean plastic 450 ml cup.
spawn the parents like normal, then remove them.
siphon the bubblenest and the eggs out of the tank using airline tubing .. have it just under the surface of the nest and suck em in to the 450 ml cup.
if the cup over flows before it fills up with the nest, use an eydropper to carefully take some water out untill you get all the eggs in it.
now, make sur that the cup has is filled no more than 3 quarters, and position it under the glass lid of the tank so its forced to stay floating.
get a airline, with the air control tap, and connect it to air pump.
put it in the cup with eggs in it.
make sure that the air bubbles are a gentle stream, just enuf to circulate the water in the cup.
it doesnt matter if the eggs are in deadspots, just as long as the arent sticking togetjher and the water is circulating around them.,
wen the fry hatch, float the cup in the spawn tank, so they ajust, and then slowly poer the fry into the tank..
you could add a tiny bit of antifungal stuff to the cup just in case.
I tried successfully to space the eggs a little and look at them every couple of hours till they hatch. It is easy to see eggs with fungus, they grow out white and when they touch the next egg, finished! Pick up also the black (this is easy to see) or white opaque eggs (this is tricky and requires lots of ecperience). Fertilized eggs should look golden.
What Uncle Fred wrote is what I would do too. There are others who pick up the eggs and place them in several smaller clean containers. be sure to use the same water from the spawning tank.
Technique 1 used a sheet of black, 1/16 inch thick craft foam with a bead of aquarium sealant around the edge. This was filled with a very shallow layer of water and seeded with 50 eggs. The water was so thin that it only covered 3/4 of the eggs. The idea was that if the eggs were in a bubble nest because they needed contact with air, such a shallow thickness of water would keep them moist while exposing them to air. The foam floated on the water in which the spawn took place. The tank was tightly covered to maintain 100 percent humidity so that evaporation and temperature wasn't an issue.
This technique failed because I found it impossible to maintain an even layer of water. It would invariably drain to one corner and somehow leak out, leaving the eggs high and dry.
Technique 2 was the same as technique 1 except I used a small, shallow, flat-bottomed glass bowl. Although the black plastic sheet made observing the eggs easier, I was concerned that chemicals in the sheet might hurt the eggs. Technique 2 was a test to see it that was the case.
This technique failed because while the eggs appeared to grow and ripen, many of them seemed to dissolve. I suspect mold attacked them and in the shallow water, all the eggs were effected.
Technique 3 consisted of a small glass bowl in which bubble nests harvested from the jars of other males had been added. Fifty eggs were dropped into this artificial nest and the bowl covered. Like techniques 1 and 2, this bowl floated in the spawning tank.
This technique failed because the nest disintegrated faster than I could add freshly harvested bubbles to it.
Technique 4 was by far the simplest and, wouldn't you know it, the most successful. I simply floated another small glass bowl in the spawning tank, added 1/2 inch of water and seeded it with fifty eggs. Although several of them dissolved in a way similar to the eggs in the shallow-water techniques, most ripened at almost the same rate as the eggs left with the father. Maturity seemed to come slower because by the time that the father-nurtured eggs were completely hatched, only ten percent of the eggs in technique 4 had hatched. I assume that the reason for this is that in spite of being in the pawning tank, the water in the bowl was slightly cooler than in the bubble nest. The success of this technique suggests that the eggs do not have to be in contact with air to mature. From this I deduce that maintaining the eggs and fry in a bubble nest is a technique developed by the fish to hide them from predation.
As several sources mention, it seems that one of the important things the male does in caring for the eggs is keep them clean of mold that attacks them. The betta in this spawn followed a regular schedule of moving all of the eggs from one side of the bubble nest to the other twice a day. So much handling would certainly allow for extensive cleaning. It might be possible to provide this function by stirring the eggs and following that with a water change twice a day. This is something I plan to try during the third spawn.
Technique 4(a) I harvested 10 newly-hatched fry and placed them in a floating bowl with 1/2 of water. I want to test to see if the fry, once hatched, really need a male to help them mature.
I hope these tips/ideas/methods works for you.
What is interesting, is I have this information on hand, having just bought a confirmed egg eater, and prepping him for the spawn tank once more... I needed to know what to do myself, lol.
Yes. The hatching rate is moderate depend the water quality, the temperature and how passion you are. :)
After so many breeding process I have, my observation is like the males fertilized the eggs in his mouth? <_<
I realized the one that using his mouth a lot (I mean they suck the eggs and leave it longer before putting them on the nest) will have higher rate babies. This just my opinion. :huh:
Yeevers, that is, I believe when he is cleaning the eggs. I also think he is checking the devlopment of the fry inside the egg... Maybe they can feel with their mouths and instinct tells them if the embryo is forming corectly.