LaBella,

I am not sure you have bred Dalmations .. think so. But I know you have a good genetics base.

What do you know about Dalmations genetically speaking? I know Siamimbellis is known for the Dals even though I am seeing them in Veils on AB. And I know other people have seen the "Spots" in other colors.

Is it dominant... or recessive? Or?? Any info would be appreciated. Does there seem to be a weakness in the Orange Dals?

Thanks..

Pam

The Dal genes are very interesting, and I have yet to find any definitive information on them.
From what I understand, Sawarut saw the dal for sale in the market as a VT. He took the VT breeders some of his HM stock, and told them to make them into HMs.. the dals.. and a year later, he came back, and the dal HM was there.
I don't know how true that is, but that is what I have read.
This means the apricot spot was around before the dal..
That being said, I believe the Dal is a dominant of variable expression. Spotted fish produce spotted fish, and even when people have tried to breed away from the spots, fish that are not spotted from spotted lines can STILL produce spotted fish.
Example.. New Yorker was a Dal.. Manny, his son was spotless, even when he died at over a year old.. (spots can develop on spotless fish over time). SoHo, Manny's son by his sister is looking like he is thinking of developing spots.
As for other colors.
I myself have seen dals in yellow, and in white, aside from orange, and then there is the yellow spotted melano which may or may not be a type of dal.
This is my thought..
Going back to the melano... from the Bettysplenden website...

I am wondering if the dal could be a by blow of an NR/melano breeding, where the melano was bred out, but there remained the stickiness of the extra adhesion protiens, but they instead attract erythrophores, the color that causes red and non red.
Speculation on my part...

This article from Bettysplendens should help, Oh, and fish in the second picture is MY fish, Revolution, lol.

I don't know that there is a weakness per say, but I have had issues getting my dals bred. In fact, I have nothing to show for the Sawarut dals I bred. But Evo lived for about a year after I got him, which is not bad for a Thai fish.
Jamaica, who is actually a dal, and not a peach metallic is doing great as well, being a year and a half, and still breeding.and I didn't breed him until he was over a year.
I think that any percieved weakness in dals is due to them being imported, and little else.

Thanks for the reply LaBella,

I have read the info on Bettysplendens.. she considers it dominant. But maybe a little more like the marble gene.

Someone on another board was interested and I was trying to gather some information for her. I know Wayne, Bettas4Me, has a 3 week spawn from a Dal female... too young to make a genetic guess.

To me it is a weakness in the NR2 gene that allows the red color to show through. Kind of like a Platinum or Opaque that ends up pink or with red spots because of a weak set of opaque genes.

I would have to read more on oranges and the changes that happen to reds.. but not my thing. I have enough trouble with Reds and Iridescents.

Thank you again,

Pam

But here is the thing.. I have seen white dalmations with opaque spots on white fins, I have seen yellow dalmations, with thicker yellow spots on yellow fins, so it doesn't seem to be exclusively a flaw allow red to show through.
And V DOES consider it dominant, but because it can express in offspring of a fish that do NOT have spots, it makes me think it is a dominant with variable expression, so those fish you think are spot free are actually genetically spotted.
Which kind of throws things into a mess. V even said she was trying to breed it out of her orange line, and was not very successful.
The dal entered her line through two Sawarut orange females that were NOT dals.. And nor was the spawn brother that was bought with him. But V was convinced that crossing had been done into the dal line, because it was after the introduction of these females that spotted fish began appearing in her orange lines, and only in fish that were descendants of those females.
I honestly don't know what is going on with the dalmations genes. I DO wonder if it could be a mutation of the marble gene, but why would it effect mostly the red/NR colors, I don't know.
I am not sure anyone has seriously looked into them. They just seem to be an interesting anomaly.

Well here is some more info maybe... I bred a Dal to an orange black pk and almost all the kids from these guys have spots. Which I think is cool. I will see if the f2 of these guys produces more spots....

I'm actually working on a dal program now, I'm not looking for color, just pattern right now, I think they will come together in time :)

I also had a pitiful dream :blink:

I dreamed that I had set up a 10 G breeder tank, and somehow forgot about it, and when I went to go in for a look there were lots of girlies, and one male, *don't remember what the male looked like, the girlies were sooo nice! One was a chocolate dal *drool!* there was a solid chocolate, a yellow, opaque spotted DT , her tail seperation was rather uneven, but seeings how I started out with 2 VTs I figured it was pretty good lol..and there was about 4 more, that I can't remember, oh, and there were 2 new spawns in the tank lol....dreams :( :wub: