ok heres my question.....

If I breed this fish..........

"blue cloud" halfmoon female.....
and one of my turquoise HM plakat males........


will I get any of the females coloration in the next generation?

If not then I will end up buying this fish........ (thanks MUMU!)lol.....



I should get some with her coloring right?

No you won't buy the other fish.

OMG, did I say that? I DID didn't I...
I honestly don't think you will.. buy the other fish.

no stop it..... I cant take your taunting! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh I thought you would post some helpful genetic information Bella!!!!!!!!! Thanks :OO :OO :P

LOL All I can say is that you can pay me back in babies from those two because they are both AMAZING! No joke, you have a great female to pair him with. Go for it! But don't forget the little people*coughcoughMEcoughcough* who helped you out. :P

Buy the other fish.

The female is blue and opaque. Now, they SAY opaque is Steel covered by opaque factor, but fish like your female gives me cause to doubt it. Simply because I have not seen blue/steel marbles like that, WITHOUT the opaque being there.
That being said, I DO think that there is more than one kind of opaque. One type is the "dragon opaque" which operates independently of the steel gene, and then there is the regular opaques, the solid white fish that are genetic steels.
That being said, I am no Gene Lucas, and I could be way off base about the dragon type opaque.
Breeding blue to steel will give you blues and steels. Blue is the result of a shared dominance between the colors steel and turquoise.
And marble to anything is likely to give you as many marbles as solids, I have found. So then the last factor to consider is if the opacity of the white areas of the female will carry on to her offspring with a male that might not carry the gene.
From my understanding, opaque, (regular) is a recessive gene, and I am sure the dragon gene is also recessive, otherwise they would be easy to get.
Though adding steel to the line could make the white a more brilliant white, (that is what they do with opaques, every couple generations, they cross a steel into the line), the question comes are you going to lose the cloud effect in the first generation.
I myself would not want to risk it. I would get that male who is a PERFECT phenotypical match for the female. And breed her to BOTH males.
But definitely, I would get the male that looks to have a similar genetic make up as the female.

See, a more in depth analysis :D

That was very insightful, LaBella. It helped me and I didn't even ask for it. :D

So insightful I bid on that male! lol no turning back now! I really want to breed that color and start a true line that throws high percentages of "clouds". Hope it works!
I think I will also breed her to the turquoise male like you suggested. I talked to Ani about the males genetic background and she said he is carrying marble and opaque genes. I'll give it a try. Can't wait to get my hands on that male! lmao.........

I am so happy for you! Yet I can't help coveting the beautiful pair that you have on your hands now. :rolleyes: As I said, remember the little people(ME!!!). :lolo:

and tenichninly even littler people[me too plz!] :lolo:
Mu your like 16, little me is only 12!! :lolo: :lolo: :lolo: :OO :OO :flower

I love that pair your putting together have always had a fondness of the " clouds" but havent had time yet to dabble in them :WOU :T

Turquoise.
See, that is what I get for not reading.
OK, blue and turquoise will give yu blue and turquoise.
The male carrying opaque increases the likelyhood of getting clouds.. But I am glad you are buying the male..
I have to show you my Martuccio.
He is going into the spawn tank next week..

OOoh Bella I love Pics!


Thanks guys, I will start a new topic in the Spawning pair / brood photography threads.

We'll see what i get.....

Don't we all? We are picture hounds.. That is what gets us ALL into trouble.. the pictures, lol.

LMAO............... :OO :OO So true!!!!!!!
I'm so nervous about the transshipping.........
I'm a Transshipping virgin so to speak..... :blink: :OMG:

I hope everything goes ok....... Its expensive enough... (ok I had to grumble alittle..)

Well, you certainly have more than a few people you can ship through.
There is Linda, who practically invented transhipping, LuvMyBettas, and there is also Victorea Ernest, and Pegasus.
They are all going to want to make this as painless as possible.. bad pun, lolol.. because a happy customer is a repeat customer.

HHHmmmmmmmm Bella,
who do you recommend? I live in Florida. Isn't Luvmybetta Jenn V, in Georgia?

The male turquoise plakat carries marble (both parents were marbles). But NOT opaque. I hope I didn't imply he was carrying opaque.

:(

Ani

Yes, she is.
Now This is the truth. I have not used Linda, the only OS fish I have bought came from Sawarut, and he uses his own transhipper in Hawaii.
BUT for one time.
I went hunting for sisters to a fish I bought at convention, and bought them. I didn't want them sent to Denver first, and then to me, because I was convinced it was too much travel time.
So I contacted Luv My bettas.
My only complaint with that transaction was there was a little less communication than I would have liked, BUT, and remember this, she was in the last days of a pregnancy carrying twins.
And you all know how much I lie to chat, so a minute by minute update on what was going on would not have been too much for me, lolol. So that complaint was more MY issue than hers.

Ok I went over the e-mail again and I got confused I kept seeing the word opaque........ Listen I am a natural blonde....... What can I say?! :OO

I am still going to breed the turquoise male and opaque marble female. :P

See I met Jennifer at the FCB show and she seems like she has her hands full with those twins. The only thing I am concerned about is on her website (Luvmybetta)
her page about the transhipping is very strict........ She also has a whole bunch of charges she charges for different things? I dont know...... Who is Pegasus? He is in Miami that is much closer to me........ Why does that name sound familiar?

I have used Linda Olson twice and I have nothing but praise the first time was a bit hectic with regards to shipping but the second time was a great experience linda can also be contacted on yahoo I have never had any problems communicating with her if i couldnt get her on yahoo or if I did not hear from her on email.
I phoned her linda also explains what each fee is for in detail I have never used any of the other trans shippers I once tried contacting Victorea but i never heard back from her as that is the only trans shipper that Chok Pengdit uses I was a lil leary not hearing from her as I was inquiring about pricing etc that she charges I am, in no ways downing her or anything I am hoping to contact her via phone once i really decide to purchase from chok..
that second male is hawt he is a nice match for your fem If i would have had something or if that coloration was with in my breeding goals I would have gotten him

Oooo! I am still so excited about these fish, and I am not evne getting them!! :LOL:

thanks for the info..........

Just so yah know Bella traditional opaque is similar to pastel when it comes to the irredecent. We are most used to seeing "white" opaques which are light bodied steel fish with opaque, and the result is a fish that to the naked eye looks white. You can have and enter opaque fish that are light bodied royal and green/turquoises, it's just that not alot of people are breeding for that coloration. Usually when you get an opaque fish you want it because it looks white. The opaque gene is completely independent from the irredecent steel gene. You can (if you wanted to breed it) have a yellow opaque, or red, or black, or any other coloration of betta with opaque. Like Nate's bettas that I gave him are dark bodied opaques (G1 is calling their name XP) but you can breed them with royal blue and green irredecents and get a mirage of irredecent colors that are opaque.

Oh!
Thanks Jamie............. :D

I thought that because we talking about blue and white fish it was evident I was talking about opaque steel, as opposed to opaque blue, or opaque green/turq.
Also, the main difference between opaque and pastel is the amount of opaque factor.
You can start showing a fish in pastels, and as the fish matures, it can show and win in opaque.
And as I have said, I am not convinced that the opaque that we see on dragons is the same opaque as the opaque/steel/blue/turq/green.
They look different, the way the opaque lays in the scales is different. The blue cloud coloration to ME seems to be more the dragon type opaque, than the "regular" opaque.

WWWoooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooo!!!!!!!! :hawaiibanana :hawaiibanana :hawaiibanana

They are here!!!!!!!! I will have to post pics soon! :WOW: :WOW: :WOW: :WOW:

You mean... VERY soon.... :LOL: