Looks like a PK, right??
I thought she was, was pretty sure she was..
But I have a long finned son out of her to Hollywood.. who was a trad PK...
I was talking to the lady I gave her to, and warned her that she might be a long fin, and she said, yeah, she popped another set of rays, and is clearly a long fin, NOW.
That pic was taken when she was ALMOST 7 months.
So, who knows...Your PK female just mght decide to be a long finned female.

From what I understand, short finned is recessive to long finned.
You need two short finned genes to make a short finned fish.
If you breed two short finned fish together, you should only get short finned fish.
It shoudl be inpossible to get long finned fish from two short finned fish, unless one, (the female) was a long fin in hiding.
At 7 months, I was pretty sure she was done growing out, and was a PK.. So that is why this long finned male surprised me.
And she is a Shelly fish, though from long finned parents, she is tight on that choc PK of Shell's, so her being a PK, esp when compared to her multi branched spawn sisters wasn't too unlikely.

The only other person I have heard long finned fry coming frm short finned parents was Gup. And he, like I had only one long finned male popping up..
Unlike him, I have about 30 more in the tank, and a couple that look like they are going to do some serious spouting when I pull them from the tank.

Long fin is dominant.
That is why you have to SEE it in order to GET it.
It cannot hide.
Long fin is dominant to short fin.
You only need ONE copy of the long fin gene to have long finned fish.
That is why long finned fish can have short finned fry.
However short fin is recessive. You need TWO copies of the short finned gene to have short finned fish.
If you are breeding two short finned fish, that is a total of 4 copies of short finned genes, where is the long fin gene?
It is not there, because it CANNOT be there, otherwise ONE of the parents would be a long finned fish.

Put it like this..
When have two double tails produced a single tail fish?
That breeding can't and will not, because a double tail is double recessive for the gene, but a single tail that carries the DT gene can produce double tails.
Short tail gene works exactly the same way double tail gene works.

PKxPK will always give you PK. The hard thing to know is weather or not the FEMALE is plakat. You could have a PK male and a LF female and spawn them, and by chance get that one male that shows the long fins (because genetics is all chance on what your fish are going to have) and if any of the females show the long fin, you can't tell for sure. There are LF females with crappy rays, and there could be plakat females that have very good branching.

Want to know why there aren't any female plakat classes? Because there is no for sure 100% way to tell a female plakat from a female long finned. You can only guess, unless you spawned a plakat male to a female that came from a PKxPK cross, and you were 100% sure that the plakat line was pure, and there had been no LF crossed into it, because the females can hide the expressions of the long finned.

And how did this argument get started? I thought this was a post about ECB's new pretty "Pineapples", and the little female.

It is true that pkxpk will give 100% short tail unless the fem carries something other then the ST gene and it is unknown what the fem carries then you'll get whatever the tail type fem carries here is some info I got from a website called thebettabubble.com
referring to tail types and genetics
Tail 1 X Tail 2 = % Of Tail Types
Short tail X Long tail = 100% Long tail (short geno)
Short tail X Long tail (short geno) = 50% Long tail-50% Short tail

ST X ST = 100% ST
DT X DT = 100% DT
ST(dt geno) X ST = 50% ST-50% ST(dt geno)

ST(dt geno) X ST(dt geno) = 25% ST 25% DT
50% ST(dt geno)

I was trying to explain what the three of you are saying; that you often don't know about the female.

Maybe I worded it wrong.

We were having a discussion and apparently I didn't make myself clear enough.

Yes, Laila herself sometimes has trouble with expression.
You would think, being a writer, that she would be better at that, but what can you do?
I tell her all the time, you may know what you are saying, but that doesn't mean that every one else does.
She did say somewhere about the female fish being a long finned fish in hiding. I don't know what you were saying, because I can't see it. But I think that maybe you two were saying the same thing, but reading each other wrong.

Ma is right, and if that is what you were saying, Sherry, you are right as well.
I just read you wrong.
I was thinking the same, and I thought I was being clear.
I think that there are some female, that because of the mixing of PK and HM LOOK like they are PKs, but are actually HM females.
This goes into the genotype, and phenotype thing.
Also, I was NOT clear about Gup's fish, I meant to say I think his female, like mine, were long finned females pretending to be short finned ones, which is why he got a long finned from her to a short fin, and why the same thing happened to me.

Just remember, those of you that are new to the genetics of these fish.
What you see when you look at a fish is it's PHENOTYPE, think Photo type.. this is what you see.
However, the GENOTYPE is the genetic type of the fish..
So a FEMALE fish can have the PHENOTYPE of a PK, but actually be a HM in her GENOTYPE.. Especially show bred females, because they are bred to look very PK like IMO.

Yeah, ditto on all you were saying there. I was thinking the big issue with you was you were just SURE she was PK and how could she throw a HM. I probably worded my stuff wrong, I'm accused of that often.
I couldn't edit my posts and so just deleted them all so NO ONE would think we were arguing when you and I just discuss and don't argue!
That's something that people should remember about us. After all, I got my butt kicked off this board once for taking up for you. That ought to let people know how close we are. ;) :P
Always room for discussion and differences of opinion. It's how we learn.

So, if we the participants have no troubles and know we aren't arguing, others not involved should just let things go and not worry over OUR discussions.

I'm thinking I won't cross anymore because it's so hard with the female thing. I know it helps improve spread but dang! It's too confusing trying to figure it out. I have two females right now that are from a cross that I'm trying to decide if they are pk or hm. I suppose I'll never know except by breeding.
I'm going to get a photo of the two and post them.

Hey, one of you moderators could move our discussion on this to a different topic or new topic since it is OFF topic here. :rolleyes:

Well, I am the same and I am a writer as well. Perhaps instead, it's just a part of being an expressive person. :D

Yeah, I was saying that to show how someone can be tricked.
Her sister, Spitting Image was 4 rayed at 2-3 months, 6 rays at least by 6-7 months..
And here it Ember with her measly 2 rays..
She HAD to be a PK, right?? Especially with this pedigree.
Esp. when her spawn sisters looked like this




And they were 2-3 months..

So when at 7 months, The first fish still had only two rays, I just KNEW she was a PK.
Well, her long finned son proves she was not long finned at all, but instead was a long fin female hiding as a short finned one.

I just love looking at Belle's pedigree charts and drooling over all the fish. It makes me happy :)