I got a problem. I just received 2 male HMs from Thailand. What I thought I was ordering was 2 solid orange. What I got was 2 beautiful solid semi transparent dark reds. The bodies are a bit light so I'm guessing there's cambo in there. They are gorgeous healthy fish. I just don't like red. Do any of you have experience with oranges or reds? What I was shooting for is a thick definite orange. Am I going to be wasting my time using these? I have 2 white platinum females. Would they just muddy things up or would they help thicken up the color? I also have a cambo female that was called orange. She was when I got her but colored up with more red. It really bites that red takes so darn long to come in sometimes. I don't know how on earth you know what's in your breeding stock if you breed them under a half year old! :wacko:

Oh my flippin word! About a week, week and a half ago I just got a new camera. I thought I'd try taking a picture of one of these males for this thread. OMG! How you guys do it? I even put the camera on a tripod and the pictures still came out like blobs. I even waited for the auto focus. He wasn't hardly even moving! I can barely tell the pics are of a fish, let alone a betta!

I can't help you with your genetics question, but I can with your camera one.

Make sure your camera is on macro setting. On all of the cameras I have had, it is represented by a tulip-looking flower symbol. This allows the camera to focus to close objects, which is needed to take pictures of such small things as bettas.

Hope I helped somewhat.

Yep, I had it on macro. I tried with and without the flash, on the tripod and on the counter, further away and closer. When I'd push the button to focus the little symbol for shaking starts flashing and the picture looks like crap. I'm just going to have to practice and try different things. I can hold it while I'm sitting on my bed and take a close up of one of my angels in a tank on the opposite side of the room just fine. I've even gotten a good picture of some flowers outside in macro while I was holding it. I'm just not catching what I'm doing different yet. Thanks though!

I also can't help with your genetics question.

With your camera, did you have the flash on or had you turned it off? Also what kind of camera is it?

First of all girlfriend.. I'm going to Nah nah nah you for not taking my Orange. He is ORANGE.. not red.

Second of all, I believe I have warned y'all about buying from overseas and genetically never knowing what you're getting that way. By y'all I mean the general public that I have posted to what advice I can give.

Third, there are unfortunately many sellers who will take advantage of the youth of a fish "looking" orangish, when they know full well they're from a red line. Orange isn't an easy color to achieve really.

If the fish you have are definitely Red, from a cambo line and don't have any orange in their genetic makeup, yes.. you'll be spinning your wheels.

When you have a nice paler Orange male from an orange line, perhaps even one where the color doesn't carry all the way out to the fin edges, it's a good idea to breed a cambo female back to him to intensify the color. But a cambo female that is known to carry NR2.

DON'T breed platinum into those guys unless you are wanting pinks or platinum red. You cannot reach NR2 through copper/metallic lines.

If you breed them to a cambo girl who doesn't carry NR2, and then if they do carry NR2, you'll get some fish from that spawn who will carry NR2 but there will most likely be none who are Pheno for NR2.

If you have reds, to get pheno oranges both parents need to carry the NR2 gene.

As far as knowing what's in your breeding stock genetically speaking; you're best bet is always going to be to buy stateside from known breeders who .. to put it plainly "Know what the f*%# they are doing!".


:D

I hope this helps Andi and if you need more let me know.

I will also tell you a few ways to 'see' if they are Orange in the photos people post. I have a good eye for color and I can always tell when one isn't really orange.

One thing you need to remember is that the color red always photographs brighter than it is. Even when you have an Orange fish you often have to take the photo into photoshop and tone down the contrast to keep it from looking red. But there are tell tale signs left when people try to edit the color of their fish. Things like, look at the color of the glass container they are in, or the water color. Really study a photo.

I'm going to go look for some examples on Aquabid to show you what I mean.

Andi, believe it or not, I am one of the good guys, always trying to help people out and keep others from being taken by the dishonest seller. I get taken a lot because I like people and like to help, but I always share what I learn and I always try to warn others to prevent them from suffering the same thing. I also always make sure I know what I'm talking about and not just being upset, emotional and basing something merely on what someone else said. He said she said can get you in tons of trouble. I don't do that. ;)

The camera I got is a Canon A640. It is a 10mp. I've tried with and without flash.

Sherry, thanks for the help. Here are the pictures that were on AB.
edited
The fin color now is almost a see through cranberry color. The second betta still has a lighter body and the first one has a fairly solid color. Like I mentioned, they really beautiful and healthy bettas. They even have a decent size.

As far as buying state side - I have only gotten 5 bettas, not including the dozens of Wal-Mart veils over the years, that I have acquired state side. I bought a pair for breeding from one person. Who, from what I gather, is a reputable person. The female was larger than the male. I tried several times spawning. Each time the female beat the snot (I suppose fish actually wouldn't have snot - being in water and all) out of him. The last time around he didn't make it. He's the one in my avatar. Actually, he died yesterday. I got a male and a female from a local ibc member. Both are tiny and the female has developed what I'm guessing is whirling disease. The fifth is another female. She's SUPER tiny! My batting average has proved to be much more successful buying from Thailand. Besides, then I can get them shipped through Linda and she sends a chauffeur betta magnet with to keep my new babies company!

I am new to photobucket and don't know if these are going to work. I've been awake for over 20 hours and am too lazy/tired to check out the photobucket tutorial.

Crap!

Let's see if this works.

I think Sherry pretty much covered the Genetics questions. As for the camera, the A640 is a very capable camera. If you are getting the camera shaking picture, then the camera is setting the shutter to open for too long in the absence of light. What I reccommend is if you have a halogen desk lamp to place over top of the tank. Just make sure you don't do it too long because halogen puts out a lot of heat and CAN affect a temperature change of the water. Also try to turn the F~ down as far as it goes.. usually about 2.7 or 3.5. That will also allow the exposure to require less light.

I cannot tell by those pictures, hopefully your pics will shed some light on the situation. Are you sure they are the same fish? If worse comes to worse you can breed to a light body red and show in Dark bodied Red as per the new decision of the IBC to allow light bodied based reds into that class.

Thanks for the tips East. I'll play with the camera tomorrow. As far as if they are the same fish, I have no doubt in my mind. They are definitely the same fish as in the pictures. I'm not planning on just getting rid of them because I don't care for red bettas. They're too nice. It would be a waste to not do something.

Sorry, I can tell, those fish were shopped to be that orange, they hurt my eyes, they are so bright.
Try putting the camera on portriat, then macro, with a birght over head light.
Orange and metallic will give you something like my Manny, eventually, but if they are red, they will go pink on you.
Other than that, everything Sherry said.

Yeah, I think on those photos he just increased the contrast quite a bit. But, that said, I do believe they might be from an orange line. I'd really like to see a photo from you. I know it isn't easy, believe me.

I'd try breeding them to a good orange female and see what you get. They are nice on form.

I have a nice cambo orange female I'm going to try. I just haven't figured out which one to spawn her with. What do you think? If I breed her to the light bodied on I'm figuring that will enhance the cambo effect. If I spawn her to the darker bodied one will that mess up the solid color effect?

LaBella, I can't remember what Manny looks like. I did a search and couldn't get a pic of him. Ya got any?

I've got a lot of crap to get accomplished today before I can start playing with my camera. I'll try to get a pic of Sassy, my orange cambo female too. I have a orange sd female, Lilly, that I'm on the fence trying to decide if I should use. She has a black border on her caudal and irr on her scales.

Hmm.. I'm thinking go with the lighter bodied girl myself Andi.