Suchin is like that too. she has a growth on her left side but is eating and acting normally. I guess as long as she is happy and not in pain she is o.k. hope you fishie does well

I have a stud also had growth too. Sometimes it erupture and then get small again. Then big again. He is still here and doing fine.
As long as you keep changing water, with IAL and she should be fine. I am worried that she might got it from the male I breeded her last time but I am not so sure will it spread it or not. Also i heard that Thailand bettas do have a tendency a lot of tumor growth too. ^_^

Yup what Nutty said. I have done reading previously and the article did mention there is really nothing to do about it. Suchin seems to have gotten more bloated generally as well as the lump the last couple of days. She is also eating less, and that is abnormal. She usaully inhales food. So hopefully she will be o.k.

Watch her diet bettaqueen. She always eat too much. :)

Yeevs,
Don't they all eat too much?
They should be called pigfish.

Aint that the truth :OO :OO :OO

:OO @ pigfish

that they are :lolo:

Well the news on Suchin is she now has two growths on her right side. She spends a lot of time up near the surface. She will flare and play if you put a mirror in front of her. She is not eating as much as she once was either. Hopefully she will pull through

That's too bad that Suchin's still not feeling well. Where on her right side are those lumps? Are they close together? Are they more like humps or do they really bump out? She came from Yeevs, right? Do you know how old she is?

One is on her right side and is definitely a lump and the other one is under neath. Her tummy i permanently swollen big. I think the lumps are pushing on her organs. I got her from Yeevs who got her from a breeder in Thailand. So I do not know for sure how old she is. Yeevs may not know either. Yeevs told me bettas from Thailand are more suseptible to growths.

If I am counting right, she should to be 2 years old now or maybe more. ^_^

Davenia, did Beauty's ever burst? The bumps from Lymphocyctis can hang around for several months or more.

Bettaqueen, I don't think that the lump on Suchin side is much to worry about. I have to admit that I am worried about the other. A distended stomach and hanging out at the surface aren't a good combination. You are probably right about internal pressure making it hard to breath. I have to apologize for not looking in my books. I've been so tired from just getting off of my work week, which is packed into 3 days. Plus I've had other things that have needed my attention as well. I'll get the book out as soon as I have time. Hopefully later this afternoon. I think I'll split Suchin's and Beauty's topics then also, unless someone beats me to it. (hint-hint) ;)

Thank you. Yes her belly looks like a balloon. I am afraid she is not going to be with us much longer. her appetitte has really fell off too. Thanks for taking time to do that with all the other things you have going on. You are nice to do it. I would split the topic for you if I figure out how to do it. Thanks again. Thanks Yeevs. Maybe she is just getting old and growing growths like humans do when they age.

I was hoping back in May when you mentioned she was getting a big belly and then Yeevs said she likes to eat a lot that it was just an eating thing. Now I'm thinking that there's something expanding inside of her. The lumps on the outside may be lymphocystis, and I'm guessing are unrelated to the internal issue. After looking through my textbooks from college we have a few possibilities. The way the books are written they take the approach of dealing with issues at large facilities with lots of fish. A good portion of the diagnosis for a distended abdomen involved opening the fish up. Not an option here. One thing that seemed to fit was intestinal parasites. Especially tape worm.

Hang on I got to go get the dogs from the kennel. It's starting to rain and my golden retriever is a moron. He'll just stand in the rain and stare at the house waiting for me to come get him. At least the other two are smart enough to go in the dog houses.

I'm doing more digging. It's looking like some internal parasites are untreatable, I have one book that's giving me names of chemicals and National Fish Pharmacy isn't giving active ingredients. I'm still looking!

thanks Nutty. wow he is an unusual dog. None of mine ever liked the rain . I used to have to make them go outside when it was raining in order to go to the bathroom

Here is info that lead to the name of a chemical and some products it's in. Here's the link to the Disease Wizard.

http://www.swishfish.com/diseases.html

By following from parasites I got to cestodes. There's a link to the chemical Praziquantel and some products that contain it. I couldn't find any of them.
I'm guessing that National Fish Pharmacy's product called Paracide -D has it in it.

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products3.html#P

Here's a link to Drs Foster and Smith. This is the product I would choose that they have.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...5&N=2004+113017

This would be my second choice from them.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...6&N=2004+113017

The chemicals listed in my textbook are Praziquantel and Ivermectin. It doesn't state if it's an if/or or together. The stuff above all has the Praziquantel. Make sure you take the apples out. This stuff will probably kill them. I think it also said to take any carbon out of the filter (if you're using one) but let it continue cycling and to not add any other medications. So don't put in betta-fix or anything at the same time. Salt might be okay.

I hope this helps! Suchin is just a young to middle age fish. She's got a lot of spoilin' left to get. Keep us posted on how she's doing.

:hug:

Thanks for doing all that research but given her age and symptoms I am thinking she really has this

Glugea
Description
The disease is caused by the microsporidian parasite Glugea sp. This parasite infects macrophages and other mesenchymal tissues which then undergo massive hypertrophy causing deformity of visceral organs as well as infections in the muscle. Transmission is most likely direct, from an infected fish. It is rare in Australian aquariums.



Symptoms
Glugea is characterized by the formation of large cysts on the fish's body and in the internal organs, which may have the appearance of tumours. These cysts cause hypertrophy of the infected region (e.g., liver, gut, ovaries), and will burst, releasing infectious spores into the water. The fish bloat, with tumor-like protrusions, and eventually die.



Treatment
There is no cure for glugea. It is best to isolate or euthanise any infected fish before the cysts burst.


REFERENCES
Dr Jungle's Animal World: Freshwater Fish Disease and Treatments, www.animal-world.com
Robert B. Moeller Jr Internal Protozoal Diseases of Fish, www.cichlid-forum.com


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If it does come to me having to euthanize her to take her out of her misery , how do you do it without buying clove oil? What is the best way. I think Nature will take it's course though . I just hate to see her suffer

That was one of the things mentioned in my text that I mentioned was untreatable. Because there's no way of knowing for sure without a dissection and the fact that she can't be treated for it, I wanted to check for other possibilities that are treatable. If it's glugea she'll die either way. If it's an intestinal worm she'll die if not treated. She's really not very old. Bettas can live to be 6-8 years old. She's just past prime breeding age.

yup I got her because Yeevs ordered her from Thailand to breed and she turned out to be sterile.

or do you think I should try rupturing the tumors and coating the punctures with antibiotic ointment and then treating for parasites?

Some of the other things that lead me to thinking cestodes is that they can attach to the outside of a fish, burrow in to attack muscle tissue and reproductive tissue before often migrating inside the body cavity to the intestines. They are not always consumed. Here is a copy/paste from Disease Wizard that has material that matches up with my textbooks.....

Cestodes, also called tapeworms, are found in a wide variety of animals, including fish. The life cycle of cestodes is extremely varied with fish used as the primary or intermediate host. Adult tapeworms infect the digestive system. Larval forms encyst in muscle and vital organs such as the brain, eye, heart or reproductive system.

Aquatic crustacea are the most common intermediate host for fish; accordingly, wild and cultured pond fish may be heavily infected. Aquarium fish may become infested through eating infested live food.

Honestly, I'm not saying I think your wrong, because I don't know for sure, but this is just another thing to think about. Maybe the cestodes in the reproductive system is why she was sterile.

I might try using the parasite clear by jungle. They have pretty good products. I guess I could put the apples in with Sunti while she is being treated. But that is going to make for one crowded tank for Sunti. He is in an 2.5 gallon with a black apple already. I guess I could do it , if I changed their water every couple days untill Suchin either gets better from the treatment or passses on.

I wouldn't recommend puncturing the tumors. It might make things harder on her. Instead of battling just parasites she might end up battling an infection on top of it. She's pretty stressed right now.

yup I think i will just battle the parasites with parasite clear. What do you think of keeping Angel and Sushi in with Sunti and Oreo while Suchin is healing?

I looked at the Parasite Clear by Jungle. It's my 2nd choice and a lot cheaper. Go for it!

It'll be a little cozy for them, but it's just temporary.

Thanks Nutty. how long do you think it will take? a week or so? Also I have a small heater that I take out of her tank in the summer months. Do you think I should put it back in to up the heat in her tank? and I live only two blocks from the nearest petsmart. I will let you know what happens. I will try to get some before our special meeting at church tonight. I bet my snails will be breeding like rabits when I put them together. I guess I will just have to check for eggs evreyday

I managed to get the parasite clear at Wallmart last night ( only place I could get it after 9 pm). I put some in her tank last night after removing the filter and the snails ( 1/4 tab) and then a 1/4 tab in this morining and she is be a little bit more active. Still not eating but at least occasionally swiming around.thanks for the excellent advice Nuttty.

I'm happy Suchins looking a bit more active! It might take a while. I'm trying to remember how long it said to treat for internal parisites. For the internal ones I think it took quite a bit longer. As far as your snails laying eggs. They will be very obvious! They get laid above the waterline and are pink. Pretty good size too. None of mine ever hatched. Not sure why, but it would have been fun.

Actually she is not improving. That was a false alarm. She is still staying at the top of tank near the water surface and leaning against the filter. She is once again only leaving that spot of you stimulate her to move . I am afraid I may have to euthanize her. I hate to see her suffering so much. She is not eating at all and I only see snail poo left over in the bottom of the tank. I am thinking they may just be plain growths and not parasite.I think the growths may have pressed on her internal organs so much she is just miserable. I have heard of using 1 part vodka and 5 parts water to put her to sleep. the article I read said they just fall asleep and don't suffer that way. However I do not drink so I do not Know where I am going to get some vodka .

It's going to take awhile to kill the parasites and then Suchin will have to expel them. I'm sure she is feeling miserable. Give it a week or so. Keep up on the medicating. Minimize her stress. Maybe turn her light off and move her to an area where you won't be walking by much. If you have a filter going in there keep that going so the ammonia doesn't build up from the snail poo breaking down. I know it's hard not to keep checking if she's still alive, but poking her isn't helping. If she dies she won't be upright any more and she will sink to the bottom.
If you do decide to put her down the easiest thing to do is put her in a smaller container of water and set it in the freezer. Fish are cold blooded. They don't feel (I assume) hot and cold. Their metabolism slows with the temperature of their environment. She will reach an almost hibernation like state and then pass on. I still think you should hang in there and wait it out. It's hard, I know. :hug:

Thanks Nutty. I will hold on. Her tank is going to have to stay on the nightstand next to the bed cause I have not other place to put her where I would not be walking by. I can turn off the tank light . I found someone on Craigslist with a 2 gallon tank that comes with filter, extra light bulbs, and they are onlyy selling it for $15. I think I will use it to put the other two snails tank, so I can take them out of being in there with Sunti. Three snails in a 2.5 gallon tank with a betta even though it is temporary is a lot. That way when Suchin heals I can put just one snail in with her and then when Yeevs gets ready to send me one of his red girls after he get done breeding her , I can put her in the new tank with the other snail. Three bettas each in their own tank with their own snail

That sounds like a good plan. Good price on that tank too! Just be sure to sterilize it if it's used. That's so neat that you're going to get one of Yeev's girls when he's done breeding her! They're so darn cute!

oh well the tank buy did not work out. It turns out it did not have a filter, was 2 gallons and just had two light bulbs and she has had it for a year. She origally wanted $20. I can't see buying a year old tank with no filter for $15 I would have to get me a filter which would probably cost me around $10. I can buy a brand new 2.5 minibow with all I need for $35 at Walmart. oh well. I bought a used minibow on there for $20 and it had , the filter extra filter cartridges, a tank orament, marbles, decholrinator, water clarifier( I never use the stuff though). The tank ended up cracking and I had to replace it but I got everything else it came with , Oh wait duh on my part. I am having one of those senior moments.I still got the extra filter. I could just get me a 2 gallon tupperware and put the snails in there. I even still got the hood and light. . Why didn't I think of that sooner. I could get the tall sterilite ones for files and use the filter and hood from my old tank. just add sand .

Heck, I'm in the process of buying a 20 gal. with light and fluval 1 plus filter for $35.
Thank god for Craigslist.
did you try there?

yup that is where I found it. I have found some good stuff on there and gotten rid of some things ( sold ) on there. I have even adopted out a couple of bettas when I was inbetween apartments and had no where to put them. I even adopted a betta on there . It is a good thing.

I thought I owed all of you an update. Thanks for all the good advice especially you Nutty. Suchin passed away on her own somtime friday duing the night. When I got home from church on Friday evening she was barely hanging in there. So I prayed that the Lord would let her go if she was suffering because I did not want her to suffer anymore.When I got up Saturday morning and was going to do a 25 % w/c so I could add more medicine she was at the bottom of the tank under her cermaic turtle ornament dead. At least she went peaceful.

I sorry...
she was a good fish... I'm glad she isn't hurting anymore.