I am an idiot, tonight I turned on a radio on a channel without the pin. Fritz had a student (Sam with the P-51 trainer) up in the air. The good news was that Fritz had controll and saved the plane despite my radio taking control away twice, as soon as the mistake was realized Alvin turned the radio off and Fritz landed the plane without harm being done. Thanks Fritz you saved me a few hundred at HTUSA buying Sam a new plane.

The Bad news is the P-51 was destroyed in a later flight, my radio was in the impound and turned off. My sympothy goes out to Sam and Tony for the losses of their planes.

Sorry Alvin for dragging your good name down with me, it was my fault not his. When I handed Alvin the radio it was already turned on, I asked him to trim my Blade chopper for me. Then when busted for the error in a moment of panic I think I admitted "we did it" not wanting to be in the dog house alone, when truthfully "I did it" and should have admitted that sooner rather than when I knew Fritz was on to me.

I felt I needed to confess these hanous sins so I could sleep better. I will be more carefull from now on and quicker to admit when I screw up, unless it is one of Fritz planes then I would probably be to scared and just run away into hidng for a few decades. :o

My fault also, Steve.

I should have noticed/checked about the frequency pin sooner.

Well...dodo happens.
We will for sure be carefull about the pin in future after this scare.

Hope Frits and Sam can forgive us after they almost had heart attacks.

Well Steve,

Nothing like a good scare :yickes: to help make you pay attention :wacko:

Props to Steve for being a man and admitting his mistake.

Sounds like we have a true gentlemen in our club. We all
make mistakes Steve, but not all who make mistakes are
quick to admit their error. I'm really impressed and glad that
no damage was done.

I did not sleep well last night... :angry:

When the Mustang acted up, my first thought was that something had come loose on the plane. That was during the up part of a loop. Then when it happened repeatedly, I landed. And the more I thought about it, the more I believed someone had turned on on me!

... And then I remembered two people playing with a Blade helicopter in the pavilion right before Sam and I walked out with the plane... <_< I WAS onto y'all! I do appreciate the confession, Steve and Alvin.

At least you had nothing to do with the later crash of Sam's P-51 Mustang. That was entirely Sam's and my fault.

And Sam was doing so well, lining up with the runway repeatedly about 10 times in a row. Then he got a little too low (that's where I should have taken over, but...) and then he rolled the plane on its back, and it spiraled straight down. :yickes: :yickes: :yickes:

I MIGHT have been able to save it had it been a "regular" trainer...

The stage where you begin to trust your student (usually right before letting him try takeoffs and landings) and you let up your guard is the worst part of instructing... :o

Unfortunately both the Mustang's engine and the muffler are broken, besides the plane. And the receiver is questionable now.

I should have an unused engine in my engine box that he can use.
Not sure yet what Sam is going to do about a new plane. :(

And I'm sorry about Tony's plane too. That was a nice-flying Texan!
I watched it go in... And it was a self-inflicted crash... :(

Isn't that why ALL radios should be in impound and should not leave the impound with out the pin!!!!!!!!! :angry:

Looks like me and Tony need to start picking up radios that are just laying around and impound them for two months or longer!!! :angry:

I usually do always impound my radio's and follow the proceedure. In this case I had just arrived at the field and already put my Airplane radio in impound and my aiplane in one of the opens pit slots. I then went to get the blade which has it's own radio out of the truck and was walking toward the impound area, on the way I passed Alvin and told him I needed help trimming the chopper, he agreed and said let's do it right here, this somehow threw me off the routine, since I was not retrieving the radio from impound as I usually am I did not think to grab the pin, also I have been flying the helicopter in my back yard all week and got out of the habit since there are no pins to use at my house. It will not happen again.

Unfortunately this will happen from time to time. It's easy to get involved and let it slip your mind until you hear a lot of yelling. Now me, I've never done anything like that before ;) If everyone would be honest all of us have done that same thing to 1 degree or another. The important thing is that you realized what had happened and took responsibility for it!!!! I'm sure you'll be the safest person at the field to fly with for quite a while now :D

Jon

I think we all agree that a radio that does not have a pin should be in impound :thumbup:

But what does a radio sitting on a table (with the pin) have to do with the safety of a hit to another airplane????? The radio setting there (with the pin) is not a safety issue, but more of a courtesy issue. After all, it might be setting there (with the pin) while you are fueling up, or just getting ready to fly and will be useing it soon.

Jon is right, we all can slip up and forget, and turn on our radio, (Except me and Jon that is) and be lucky if we don't give someone a hit...

I agree with you Don. As long as the radio has a pin there should be no safety issue. If you go to fly without the pin then you are totally responsible for the circumstances!!! It is a curtousy issue. I know sometimes I hold on to the pin longer than I should... Sometimes I'm waiting for a break in the action to fly, working on a plane, getting the plane setup etc... at times if there isn't many people there I just hate running back and forth to the pin board. Can't wait for the spread spectrum radios so I can get out of the rat race B)

It's very simple, really. But then, maybe not... <_<

Here's what our ACMA rule No. 4 states. (And because it is a rule, we should go by it, and not what an individual says it ought to be):

ACMA Rule 4 states: All transmitters must be impounded until the frequency pin can be obtained. No transmitters will be turned on unless the flier holds the frequency pin, and has posted his current AMA card on the frequency pin board. There is a 20-minute time limit on anyone holding a frequency pin.

That first sentence implies that it is okay to have a transmitter in the pits AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE FREQUENCY PIN. That's because it implies (it's that word UNTIL) that after you obtain your pin, you no longer need to impound it.
It's unfortunate that that sentence's grammar is not quite up to par, as it could have been stated more clearly. "UNTIL THE FREQUENCY PIN CAN BE OBTAINED" should really read "UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PREQUENCY PIN IN YOUR POSESSION."
However, if another pilot is also on your frequency, then common courtesy (and the 3rd part of the rule) will tell you that you should cut your time to 20 minutes or so and return the transmitter to the impound, AND THE PIN TO THE PIN RACK.

Now I have mentioned this in one of our club meetings and it fell on deaf ears. And our President has said that HIS rule says that unless you are flying, you should not have transmitters in the pits, pin or not — period.
But if that's what is expected, then the club rule should be rewritten.

And you guys who never attend meetings, you really should, and then you'd know what we talked about...

As an instructor, it's hard enough for me to get the REAL rule (which is...?) across to new members when that rule is always "violated" (or is it...?).

What Steve did was just a mistake which I'm sure several of us (me included) have made.

Fortunately there was no harm done, in part to the superior skills of the affected pilot and his steely balls... :P

I was looking at it from a safety issue, whether you had the pin or not. That's what the thread was mainly started as... It's really yes or no, either you have the pin or you don't. If you have the pin then you are allowed to have your radio, if not then the radio should be in the impound or in your vehicle (loading or unloading for ex). I don't think it's the best idea to let your radio set out all day in the pitts with the pin... Safety wise, if the radio has the pin, it wont shoot anyone down unless they're flying without a pin. I knew that according to the bylaws there's a 20 minute limit, that's fine.

I'm glad the club has regular meetings. I wish that I could make them, unfortunately I have to pick and choose what I can do to keep the conflicts to a minimum if you know what I mean, not to mention gas, food etc. I know that by not making the meetings I give up any say but that's the best that I can do.... Maybe things will change in the future

Jon

I have heard Fritz say that at meetings as well. The way I was taught by "Fritz and Alvin" is don’t touch the radio until you have the pin. When done put it up. So as Jon said "either you have the pin or you don't" is the way I have lived by.

Glad to see that you guys new what I was talking about being that my spelling of courtesy was not up to par,and I left the i out of officer. But you got the point :)

What Steve did had nothing to do with the fact that a radio setting around (with the pin) could cause a hit to another plane, unless the person flying the other plane was flying without the pin. In that case the other flyer did not OBTAINE the pin because someone else had POSESSION of it ;) If the person that has posession of said pin for longer then 20 minutes then He/She should take it back to the pin rack because someone else might need it. If not, then He/She would be a Pin Hog :thumbdown:

But getting back to my point.
If you OBTAINE the pin, and it is in your POSESSION :thumbup: :) the fact that it is just setting there, it is not a safety issue and should cause no harm :no: But yes!!! if you are not going to be useing it, take it back and put your radio in impound

"But" that is a COURTESY issue. No place in the rules do I see where you canot have your radio just setting there (With the Pin) for longer then 20 minutes.

NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!! :angry: should be able to make a threat of impounding your radio for TWO Months Or Longer by what "thay" think the rule should be :no: :no:

I agree with you, Jon. That's why you never see my radio sitting idly in the pits. Only when I'm flying, or fast-charging my plane or my radio, do I have the pin.

I make all my students impound their radio between flights, just so they get into that habit.
And it just makes good sense, as current members don't know the new people's names, and don't know who to go see to get that pin. (You'd be surprised how ticked off some members can become when a newcomer has a pin longer than necessary!)

I agree also. I keep my rario in impound most all the time :rolleyes: I say Most, because I have forgoten a time or two. But I had the pin, and no one was looking for it,and I didn't keep it for a long time.

Please don't miss understand me. I don't think radios should be setting around not in use in the pits eather. I just think that the coment that was made was a little strong....Also, you would be surprised to see how ticked off a member can get when a member keeps the pin to long. I seen that happen three times last weekend.....This is one reason I try to keep my radio in impound.

Guys,
I think we are missing the point of the thread. It is not to say one person is wrong and the other is right. I am one of the violators of the rule, and from here on out I will keep my radio in the inpound even if I'm the only one on that channel. The point of this thread is that Steve made a mistake and he admitted to it. I think Steve is a very honorable person. Steve, my hat goes off to you :thumbup: .

You got it reaper :thumbup:

A radio setting around had nothing to do with it :no: and the threat that was made should not have been posted. I think it was out of line.

Thats my opinion :P Maby I am a little to sensitive ;) :no: :no:


Enough said

hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!

You are right Don :thumbup:

That post was uncalled for :thumbdown:

And you are?

I really don't think (hope) that the threat of lockup for 2 months was literal... It does make you stop and consider/think/remind you about the rules which is a good thing every now and then. Helps keep everything fresh.

Since we've kind of gone to safety, I think the biggest safety concern that I've seen is carrying a plane to the runway with a running engine while juggling a radio at the same time... To stumble, trip or hit the throttle while holding that spinning knife blade would be disasterous!!!! It seems much more safe to taxi the plane out (as it's very hard to carry all of your support equip to the runway)

PS, any views expressed is just personal opinion and subject to change at any time :banghead:

For one thing I'm not going to impound anyone’s radio for two Months. (it was taken as a threat?) come on man!!!
I (and I said I) have to go around every weekend and tell some one to please impound their radio. (That’s every weekend!!)
I'm a club officer that tries to enforce the rules as best as I can and when I ask some one to please impound there radios you will not believe some of the looks I get and the resentment I get from some members. Also the excuses I get as to way its setting there.
(by what "thay" think the rule should be) where did that come from? I did not make the Rules! The club members did.

Your right Jon, I've never had a problem with any plane taxing out to the runway as long as they taxi out away from the pilots pads, its taxing back is where I have to get on to them.

I was told not to taxi out to the runway unless to model was to large to carry. you are right it is hard to carry a good size plane and radio. i have had trouble with that many times. My fault for never asking or thinking of who told me.

when i do taxi out with a large plane i make sure to go toward the ends of the runway not stright out

OK Andy,
It looks like I took it the wrong way :o it just cought me at a sensitive monent.
I have not known you long enough to understand your sence of humor......


Don......

: :wub:Been at the Auto Save after a long days work, ask Alvin he can tell ya. I read a lot of good comments in the forum and they make a lot of since. Remember this is a Hobby. :wub:

(While reading the heated debate about club safety rules, Scott decided to jump in and stir the pot a little more)

I think the real problem is all those d**n airplane pilots anyway, I make a motion that we ban ALL fixed wing aircraft, and make the ACMA an RC Helicopter exclusive flying club.

I mean hades, most of them are crossing over to the darkside anyway, look at Billy Frost and Tony Farmer! I even overheard Al Ayer say he was thinking of buying one.

We can still keep most of the officers since they have heli experience, and if any of the plank heads want to keep their membership, we can give them a 30 day grace period to sell their crappy planes, and by a Hawk sport to learn to fly.

What do you guys think?


Scott

Hay Jon,

Can I use that, Any views expressed is just personal opinion and subject to change at any time........Thing????????


This would be a good time for me to use it :)

Don.........

:no: Scott sorry but that won't work. Besides I have a :bigplane: to.

Tony, shouldn't that have said "had" a :bigplane: ? after the heroic Kamikaze attack on the germans.

I started something with this topic that I did not intend to, it seems now everyone is getting heated over a problem that isn't really a problem. In the short time I have been spending my weekends at the field and my money at HTUSA, I have observed that everyone is courteous and does follow the rules most of the time. I think that is the main reason most of us keep wasting our weekends there, we enjoy the company (and we like to watch each other crash). I will make sure I am even more conscious of following all of the rules.
As for Andy impounding all of our radios for 2 months. I assure you if he takes yours he will be glad to sell you a replacement at HTUSA that you can use till the penalty is over. How can you stay upset at a guy with a heart that big. :biggrin:

For the record, the mistake I made that started this had nothing to do with impounding or not impounding a Radio, I had just arrived at the field and got it directly out of my truck and was on my way to impound it when I got so excited about flying my new chopper, that I turned it on before I got there. :( I guess that blows Scott's theory that the field should be exclusively for helicopters, since it was my d%^* hellicopter that started all of this in the first place. :D

Steve,

I wish you wouldn't have bought that thing :P Boy!!! something about them choppers gets me all worked up :wacko:

lol, sure thing Don.

That's Ok, I have backup radios and modules for emergencies just like this ;)

Heli's sound good to Scott!!!!







***I want to go in my sleep like grandpa.... not kicking and screaming like his passengers***

Remember...Radio's don't crash planes...People do!

I remember that in the old days messengers of bad tidings used to be killed... :yickes:

And look. I don't care about whether this fits a certain thread or not, as long as we are discussing safety things... Looks as if some of you are a bit cross-threaded already... :lol:

But let me be that messenger again, the bringer of another rule. Now remember, these rules were not made by me. A couple of them may have been worded poorly, but most make good sense and are no different from what other clubs have.
Our rules have served us quite well through the years. Only three minor changes have been made since the club was formed about 15 years ago.

I keep bringing up "the rules" because they address your concerns already. I'm just not sure if some of you guys have ever read "the rules." <_<

Here it is:
Rule No. 9: No plane or helicopter may taxi between the pit area and the runway. Planes that are too large or too heavy to be safely carried or pushed may be taxied from either end of the pit area to the nearest taxi way. You must set up your field equipment at that end of the pit area. Taxiing between the taxi ways and the center of the pit area is not permitted.

No one ever said you MUST carry your plane. ONLY if it's too heavy or too large. :yes:

Now, I have seen people who insist that they taxi their SMALL planes across the grass, and they find out real quick that that's a pain in the butt, as the grass is not always so short as to accommodate small wheels. A nose-over can cost you a prop. (And YOU go and complain to Alvin about the tall grass...) :no: :no: :no:

The two taxi lanes were put in especially for the larger planes (at their owners' insistence), but guess what — most of the large plane guys never use them! :no:

Ahem — in closing...
As the rule now states, TAXIING ON THE GRASS IS NOT LEGAL. To make the sort of taxiing legal that we did during the recent scale event — using those painted yellow lines as a safety barrier that's not to be crossed — the membership must vote on a rule change. Now that should make many people happy! :yes:

I used the taxi way several times on Saturday afternoon with my oversized (.50-size) Ultimate. :P But I have to admit, if it had large enough wheels I would go across the grass.

I don't see it as a problem unless you're taxiing behind or between other pilots. Much like the 20 minute rule or the "must be standing on a flight pad" rule, I think they are very important on a crowded day such as a fly-in, but on a day-to-day basis common courtesy really does go a long way, even if not within the literal confines of the rules. Don't taxi behind other pilots, don't hog the pin if you know someone else needs/wants it, and stand on a pad if there are other pilots flying. We're grown men (well, y'all are) and we should be able to handle these issues as they come up without confrontation.

Don for Courtesy Officer! :dance:

Gosh, li'l Mike, you are wiser beyond your years! I'm impressed! :yes:

Just think of the stuff you will be able to come up with AFTER you've grown up! :lol:

Just don't get too serious and long-winded like me... :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I been just reading this topic, but now someone has Gored Me In My A$$ real bad and I am MAD MAD MAD!!!!! :angry:
To suggest that my grass cutting is not up to par is just going over the edge.
It is all I can do to keep it growing, what with all the model engine exhaust sprayed on it while taxieing and those ugly brown spots left by choppers.

If we decide on a taxi strip across the grass on a regular basis, I can keep that strip of grass killed with RoundUP.
*trying hard to get over this hurtfull insult*

One time long ago, when I was hawling little Justin to the field, he was mad at me about something and was not talking.
I said "Justin, do you know what to do when you get mad?"
Justin said "Naw, what?"
I said "Scratch your A$$ and get glad."
He thought that was very funny and even smiled.

So, I reckon I will get me a big "Brillo" pad and go to scratching.
HAHA :hysterical:

I had forgotten what a sensitive individual you are... :rolleyes:

The grass was perfect this last weekend. :thumbup:

I only saw a few planes stumble and flip over during the fly-in.
Probably rocks in the grass tripped them up... <_<


:roflmao:

This is very true.

That is all you can do.