Apple Leopard: From Questionable Customer Service To Questionable OS?

oh no!!!!! apple problems

Yes, Macs are showing the blue screen of death.

This is something I never thought I’d hear myself say - or maybe I should say, see myself type - about an Apple operating system: Mac OSX Leopard was released before it was ready. This operating system needed more testing on more systems with more hardware, and especially, more software configurations. The days of Apple computers operating with just the Mac OS and Adobe Photoshop installed, and practically nothing else to speak of, are long gone, and Apple knows this as well as anyone. This operating system was not properly beta tested, and Apple’s customers are paying for it, with lost productivity and inoperative computers.

Perhaps the most troublesome of the problems has been a data loss issue caused by Finder, which performs a function on Macs similar to that of Explorer in Windows. In Leopard, when Finder moves a file from one drive to another, it deletes the file from the originating hard drive, without first checking to see if the file arrived safely on the destination hard drive. If anything goes wrong during the file transfer, such as a momentary power glitch on the destination hard drive, the file would then be destroyed on both hard drives.

Leopard users hoped that a free maintenance update (OSX 10.5.1), released on Thursday, November 15, would fix the issue, but Apple’s statement accompanying the update is too vague to give a definitive answer. With regard to data loss, it states that "... a potential data loss issue when moving files across partitions ..." has been fixed, but moving files across hard drives is not addressed. Personally, I wouldn’t want to bet my important data on that statement.

In an unrelated issue, data recovery firm Retrodata has found a disturbing hard drive failure rate in some Apple Macbooks. Quoting from the Retrodata Web site: "We at Retrodata believe that any sizeable manufacturer would by this stage be aware of such a problem and issue a product recall notice, or an offer to have the drive exchanged for a suitable alternative at their own expense." If you own an Apple Macbook with a Seagate hard drive, I strongly suggest you check out the details available at Retrodata.

As disturbing as data loss is, this next problem is the Apple version of a bombshell. Thanks to Leopard, the dreaded Blue Screen of Death is now a part of the Mac operating system. When I first tell this to Mac users that haven’t yet upgraded to Leopard, I usually hear something like "Yeah, I get Blue Screens of Death when I use Windows on my Mac". No, that’s not quite what I mean - Blue Screens of Death are occurring not only in Windows, but in Leopard as well.

The problem, to a certain extent, has been acknowledged by Apple. Although, in a move which I find somewhat amusing, Apple refuses to refer to the problem as a "Blue Screen of Death". Apparently they find the term, historically associated with Windows, somewhat distasteful. Instead, Apple simply uses the term "Blue Screen". The problem is recognized by Apple on top searches also shows the # 1 search to be " ’Blue screen’ appears after install". A Mac user in this thread actually had the audacity to use the term "Blue Screen of Death" in a post, which ultimately led to him or her being referred to as a "crackpot" by the Apple faithful.

Leopard has been plagued by a series of other problems as well. There are graphics artifacts followed by freezes, which may be caused by the new operating system’s increased use of the Mac graphics card. A poster at AppleInsider.com reports returning four new iMacs because of this problem. A search for Freeze or Lock or Hangs in Apple’s Leopard discussion groups returns the maximum allowable 500 hits.

:yickes: FRITS. :plane_crash:

I was thinking of getting a Mac, but if it is no better than a PC... :unsure:



:biggrin:

:yickes: FRITS :3dCrash:

Oh yes, David, I'm familiar with that Website. It's unfortunate that you believe that guy Tom. He is pretty full of himself... I'm not going to stoop so low as to steal text from a Windows-hating Website. That would be unfair. I base my opinions on experience and unbiased reviews.

I don't believe everything Apple puts out, but my Leopard OS (and those on the iMac computers of a couple of my family members and friends) have not experienced the things this guy gripes about. The UNIX platform is what Apple uses and it's the most stable OS you can get, as you — a computer guru(?) — should know.

May I remind you again that Leopard even runs Windows? Poor Microsoft Vista can barely run itself — unless you have a suitable computer, which many companies don't have, let alone the poor average consumer!

I DID NOT steal the following article from Apple.com. It comes from www.technologyreview.com/. This company, Technology Review, is just that, it reviews technology, including computers, without bias. And it is published by MIT — good enough credentials, I believe!
At the end there are a couple more excerpts by Consumer Reports and others... By the way, speaking of customer service... I subscribe to that company's magazine, and the last time I looked, Consumer Reports rated Apple higher than any other computer company in consumer satisfaction. They always have...

Trouble is, most of you who dislike Apple computers have never used one, won't find out what they are about, and won't make the time to read this EXCELLENT article.

I hope you DO read it, David. You may learn something!
Just remember that if you would like a peek at your upcoming operating system, look at the Mac's current one! (I didn't make that up. I read it on the PC Magazine Website three years ago, long before Leopard and Vista came out!)
Enjoy!
=================================

Uninspiring Vista

How Microsoft's long-awaited Vista operating system disappointed a stubborn fan.
By Erika Jonietz

For most of the last two decades, I have been a Microsoft apologist. I mean, not merely a contented user of the company's operating systems and software, not just a fan, but a champion. I have insisted that MS-DOS wasn't hard to use,(once you got used to it), that Windows 3.1 was the greatest innovation in desktop operating systems, that Word was in fact superior to WordPerfect, and that Windows XP was, quite simply, "it."

When I was forced to use Apple's Mac OS (versions 7.6 through 9.2) for a series of jobs, I grumbled, griped, and insisted that Windows was better. Even as I slowly acclimated at work, I bought only Windows PCs for myself and avoided my roommate's recherché new iBook as if it were fugu. I admitted it was pretty, but I just knew that you got more computing power for your buck from an Intel-based Windows machine, and of course there was far more software available for PCs. Yet my adoration wasn't entirely logical; I knew from experience, for example, that Mac crashes were easier to recover from than the infamous Blue Screen of Death. At the heart of it all, I was simply more used to Windows. Even when I finally bought a Mac three years ago, it was solely to meet the computing requirements of some of the publications I worked with. I turned it on only when I had to, sticking to my Windows computer for everyday tasks.

So you might think I would be predisposed to love Vista, Microsoft's newest version of Windows. And indeed, I leaped at the opportunity to review it. I couldn't wait to finally see and use the long-delayed operating system that I had been reading and writing about for more than three years. Regardless of widespread skepticism, I was confident that Vista would dazzle me, and I looked forward to saying so in print.

Ironically, playing around with Vista for more than a month has done what years of experience and exhortations from Mac-loving friends could not: it has converted me into a Mac fan.
Still, my very first impression of Vista was positive. Quite simply, it's beautiful. The Aero visual interface provides some cool effects, such as translucent window borders and a way to scroll through a 3-D "stack" of your open windows to find the one you want. Networking computers is virtually automatic, as it was supposed to be but never quite has been with Windows XP. The Photo Gallery is the best built-in organizer I've used to manage digital pictures; it even includes basic photo correction tools

But many of Vista's "new" features seemed terribly familiar to me--as they will to any user of Apple's OS operating system. Live thumbnails that display petite versions of minimized windows, search boxes integrated into every Explorer window, and especially the Sidebar--which contains "Gadgets" such as a weather updater and a headline reader--all mimic Apple's OS X features introduced in 2005. The Windows versions are outstanding--they're just not really innovative.

My efforts to get Media Center working highlighted two big problems with Vista. First, it's a memory hog. The hundreds of new features jammed into it have made it a prime example of software bloat, perhaps the quintessence of programmer Niklaus Wirth's law that software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster. Although my computer meets the minimum requirements of a "Vista Premium Ready PC," with one gigabyte of RAM, I could run only a few simple programs, such as a Web browser and word processor, without running out of memory. I couldn't even watch a movie: Windows Media Player could read the contents of the DVD, but there wasn't enough memory to actually play it. In short, you need a hades of a computer just to run this Vista OS.

Second, users choosing to install the 64-bit version of Vista on computers they already own will have a hard time finding drivers, the software needed to control hardware sub-systems and peripherals such as video cards, modems, or printers. Microsoft's Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor program, which I ran before installing Vista, assured me that my laptop was fully compatible with the 64-bit version. But once I installed it, my speakers would not work. It seems that none of the companies concerned had written a driver for my sound card; it took more than 10 hours of effort to find a workaround. Nor do drivers exist for my modem, printer, or several other things I rely on. For some of the newer components, like the modem, manufacturers will probably have released 64-bit drivers by the time this review appears. But companies have no incentive to write complicated new drivers for older peripherals like my printer. And because rules written into the 64-bit version of Vista limit the installation of some independently written drivers, users will be virtually forced to buy new peripherals if they want to run it.

Playing with Apple OS X in order to make accurate comparisons for this review, I had a personal epiphany: Windows is complicated. Macs are simple.

This may seem extraordinarily obvious; after all, Apple has built an entire advertising campaign around the concept. But I am obstinate, and I have loved Windows for a long time. Now, however, simplicity is increasingly important to me. I just want things to work, and with my Mac, they do. Though my Mac barely exceeds the processor and memory requirements for OS X, every bundled program runs perfectly. The five-year-old printer that doesn't work at all with Vista performs beautifully with OS X, not because the manufacturer bothered to write a new Mac driver for my aging standby, but because Apple included a third-party, open-source driver designed to support older printers in Tiger. Instead of facing the planned obsolescence of my printer, I can stick with it as long as I like.

And my deepest-seated reasons for preferring Windows PCs--more computing power for the money and greater software availability--have evaporated in the last year. Apple's decision to use the same Intel chips found in Windows machines has changed everything. Users can now run OS X and Windows on the same computer; with third-party software such as Parallels Desktop, you don't even need to reboot to switch back and forth. The chip swap also makes it possible to compare prices directly. I recently used the Apple and Dell websites to price comparable desktops and laptops; they were $100 apart or less in each case. The difference is that Apple doesn't offer any lower-end processors, so its cheapest computers cost quite a bit more than the least-expensive PCs. As Vista penetrates the market, however, the slower processors are likely to become obsolete--minimizing any cost differences between PCs and Macs.
I may need Windows for a long time to come; many electronic gadgets such as PDAs and MP3 players can only be synched with a computer running Windows, and some software is still not available for Macs. But the long-predicted migration of software from the desktop to the Internet is finally happening. Organizations now routinely access crucial programs from commercial Web servers, and consumers use Google's services to compose, edit, and store their e-mail, calendars, and even documents and spreadsheets (see "Homo Conexus," July/August 2006). As this shift accelerates, finding software that works with a particular operating system will be less of a concern. People will be able to base decisions about which OS to use strictly on merit, and on personal preference. For me, if the choice is between struggling to configure every feature and being able to boot up and get to work, at long last I choose the Mac.

Erika Jonietz is a Technology Review senior editor.
======================================================================================
More comments about Vista's drawbacks:
Dean Gallea, who heads up computer testing for Consumer Reports, discovered other problems. When he installed Vista on his home computer, he got an error message when he tried to print. It turns out his printer wasn't compatible with Vista. And the incompatibility problems didn't end there. He says "at least four of my external devices stopped working after I upgraded to Vista." Gallea used his technical expertise to solve the problem. To avoid a similar situation, Consumer Reports says check the web site for your printer's manufacturer, and any other devices you have before you upgrade to be sure they'll be compatible with Vista.

From another site:
Vista is not without its demons, areas of the OS such as compatibility still remains an issue and users will encounter cases of some of their favorite applications and/or hardware devices either not working properly or not working at all. Other parts of the user interface Microsoft claims to be new and improved feel like extra steps to accomplish simple task. A new feature, User Access Control, is sure to cause more annoyance than its intended purpose, which is to protect users although it has been lax since BETA 1 to provide a convenient response to actions executed by the user. Windows Vista is available in six(!) editions. (WHY SIX?...)

And from another:
Windows Vista has its own set of drawbacks. Its hardware requirements are much more demanding than those for Windows XP, which means that firms will probably have to invest in new PCs if they want to get the most out of Vista. In fact, most corporate desktops now in use will hardly be adequate to run Vista.
Is Vista worth all this extra investment? I find it difficult to pinpoint any area in which Windows Vista is a significant advance over Windows XP. Better security? Perhaps – but most IT managers seem to find that the Service Pack 2 update of Windows XP addresses many of the security weaknesses in the current product. A better user experience? Not unless you are prepared to equip every user with a high-end graphics card capable of 3D graphics acceleration.

And yet another (there are many more):
People who are already planning to buy a new Windoes PC should be happy with the new operating system that comes with it. But those with older computers might think twice about buying Vista as an upgrade.

i posted it just to pick on ya, i deal with both of them at work.

vista works perfect only if it is on 4gigs of ram. so yes it has its flaws.. :D

you know we love to give you a hard time, but it dose work better than windows

Thank you David!
I knew you worked with both Macs and Windows computers, so I was a bit surprised...

I'm sorry I called you a "computer guru(?)" (with that question mark...)
Now I know for sure you really are one!... :yes: :thumbup:

:lol:

You SAID you just got a new PC with Windows XP or 2000 on it, so I know there may be no truth to that statement... <_<

If you DID get a new Mac, the Pits Report could probably be posted about three hours after you got all the goods from me, rather than three DAYS!... :hysterical:

Don't you think it's strange that Microsoft came out with SIX versions of Vista, their latest and greatest operating system, yet many people (even businesses) had rather stay with 2000 or XP, because their current computers choke on the newest one? :crying:

Many Windows-only people are convinced that all computers MUST be difficult to operate, because, well, it's a computer... Not the PC geeks of course, because they are used to it and will find workarounds to make it work for them, plus they'll consider it to be a challenge. But how about the common folk?

Too bad!... If only they knew what "that other computer" is all about... :(

:rolleyes:

I THINK IT IS ALL IN WHAT YOU ARE USE TO, I HAVE BEEN ON BOTH, AND LIKE BOTH

BUT IT IS FUN TO PICK !!!! :lol: :banana:

Partly true, Ernie...
At one time my group dealt with about 500 of each on a network... And I had one of each sitting on my desk, because I had to use both of them in my job... THAT's how you can compare and tell the differences... :yes:

And I used both of them, every single day for about five or so years... The 500 PCs took four of my technicians to maintain, the 500 Macs required only ONE technician, plus he spent half his time as the network administrator!...

I really, REALLY preferred that easy computer!... (and so did everyone who used them...)

Best to have a computer that works for you, than one you have to work... :lol:

DELL customer service is much better than MAC's
windows is much better.

:hysterical: dell

dell is a joke
this dosnt even need a reply

Macs are just are business men who have nothing but meetings online there is nothing wrong with dells..

What?

Well Windows is just as good as Leopard
Dell is just as good as a ol Mac

Are you a businessman Avistar? I've never used a Mac, so i wouldn't know...which is better. What has been your experience with a Mac? Surely you wouldn't make such a comment.. without personal Experience would YOU??? welllll would you??? :o

Can't say I am really I saw the Mac commiecals saying do business with our new Macs Well Both O.S have business thing,
Dell has came a long way, I had trouble with Dell customer service
thier techs are really helpful.

THe Mac O.S programs will be too hard for me figure out.

Then how can you state that one is just as good as the other, if you have never used both??? I see commercials all the time, that say some product is the BEST. I try not to believe it tho, unless i've used the product.
And did i read right, that you said you had PROBLEMS with Dell? Maybe if you had problems with Mac, you could state they were the best...

I have dell
I don't have no problems with my XPS 410.
Macs are in thier own class they used to be called Apples until some one named Mac bought thier company out and renamed PCs Macs

Someone named Mac? :rolleyes: Hmmm. i never knew that. Wonder if his kid was named PC...??

Mac is the name of the person who own s the company not to mention it's too fancy of a name of apple.
Do you have windows? And what brand of PC you have ?

Here we go again! ALL RIGHT! :banana:

Well, good — David replied first! At least he's one of the few who knows what he's talking about when it comes to computers! He works with both Windows PCs and Macs, so he is more qualified than most to talk about them.

Avistar2, your response implies that you never even read what Leopard is all about, and why, in many ways, it is superior to Windows Vista. If you have never used an Apple iMac running Leopard, I don't want to hear your incoherent, senseless drivel about stuff you have no clue about. As much trouble as you are having communicating and coexisting with people in the real world, I have a pretty strong feeling that you also may be an idiot when it comes to computers. I'm just saying — not to be rude... :lol:

No, you ignoramus, it is NOT, as anyone knows who can understand the news, or who can read a newspaper! (Newspapers are written at eighth grade level, so most people should be able to understand any of its articles...)

Apple's owner is well-known because of those other products like Apple iTunes, the Apple iPod and the Apple iPhone... His name is Steve Jobs, and he was the founder of Apple Computer Co., since renamed just plain Apple. The Mac was originallly introduced as the Macintosh in 1983, and yes, the name of an apple was used, the macintosh (get it?... APPLE company... apple... their logo is an apple...)

You sound like a true dumb A$$ to me again. And it's because you continually babble about subjects you know absolutely NOTHING about! This forum won't let me use the S-word, but — you seem to suffer from diarrhea of the mouth...

My suggestion, stay in your alien dream world. Better yet, take all your crap to your own forum... The sooner the better...

Now, go ahead and whine to Alvin about me again... :lol:

I feel sooooo inadequate. I've never had a Dell, or a Mac. I have a Compaq. (probly made in the same factory as the other pc's) Maybe avistar was mistaken, and the guy who owned the company owned compaq instead??? They could have called him Compaq Mac. (at least it rhymes)
I have used Windows for several years, and still don't know a tenth of its capabilities. I have never known of anyone that was disappointed in a Mac. (unlike Windows, or other PC programs) I used a Toshiba laptop for a few years, and never had a problem with that brand either. I think when it comes to hardware they are all pretty much the same.. Good ones, and bad ones.. (kinda like chevys, or fords) It all depends on what you grew up with. (ooops.. theres that preposition again) :banghead:

I feel dumber having read some of the replies on this thread.......... :angry:

Smartest man i ever knew, said we're all dumb.. just in different areas.. Or, was that we are all Smart.. just in different areas????

anyone heard of that software called red hat ?

Me to. :crying: :crying:

:o I was going crack a joke about Mac users , But due to low since humor forget it.

Just as well... We probably wouldn't have understood it anyway... (we have a LOW Cents :twocents: of humor here in Alabama. Never could understand that ERRORZONA HOOMOR

But you find the joke at Desert Aero Aces forum
I had to , because Mr. Bitter will grip here.

What the he|| does THAT mean???... Speaking of incoherent... :angry:

Actually, Benhere, these days it's much more acceptable to end a sentence like that... Let's face it — it sounds so much more natural to say: "Hey, where y'at?", rather than: "Hey, at which place are you?"... :lol:

Well, yes, where it has to do with Windows PCs, because there are so many variations and brands, including home-brewed ones and custom-made ones. Compaq used to be quirky because it had some proprietary hardware, so you had to send them to Compaq for repair. I think Compaq is now made by another company. Gateway? Not sure...

In the Apple world you have different models, but, they are all made by Apple, and all operate the same way they did back in 1983, when the Mac was first introduced. You have choices of models, but not too many other things. And that's GOOD!

Think about that! Does that mean that Apple (known as an innovative company world-wide) has not been smart enough to improve on its older operating systems? Or did they actually come up with an operating system that others have since imitated to the max? After the initial attempt with Windows 3.1 and then Windows 95 and 98 — FINALLY, a PC started to look and work like a Mac. I know, because I have had to use ALL those operating systems in my job. The only ones I have little knowledge about are the more recent Windows XP, 2000 and Vista, so you don't hear me talk about them except when I quote the Windows gurus...

You don't think Bill Gates came up with those little icons, the desktop, the recycle bin, and terms like drag & drop, point & click, copy & paste and plug & play, do you? We were doing that many years before you guys tried it. By the way, plug & play, when PCs were finally beginning to use it, was actually referred to as plug & PRAY by Windows geeks!... :lol:

We have good Macs and bad Macs too, although BAD usually means old and unable to run up-to-date software...
I have a 7-year old iMac and a 3-year-old iMac sitting side-by-side and I USE BOTH OF THEM EVERY DAY! Four weeks ago I finally destroyed and disposed of my 11-year-old Mac. And my 15-year-old Mac was stolen several years ago. As you can see, I (and true for most Mac users) buy a completely new system every three or four years. And why not? They come bundled with EVERYTHING YOU NEED, each time! Nothing else to buy (in most cases, unless you have special software needs...)

In one corner of my computer room I still have my oldest REAL computer, an IBM PC (the original Personal Computer. That's where the word PC comes from. IBM coined it.) Yes, it still runs - and it uses the old DOS operating system, of course!... It's an antique and I just can't bring myself to trashing it...
I said REAL computer, because in the attic I also have a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A computer. Before I bought that IBM PC, I used it to learn DOS, BASIC and X-BASIC programming...

There you have it... I think I know what I am talking about... At least I know the history of the Mac and how it relates to Windows computers...

But you, Avistar2, now THAT's another story... :angry:

:( Your username is not Mr.Bitter, It's flying dutchman
Mr.Bitter is another user here.

anyway I don't know why you guys don't like Dell ?
there is nothing wrong with them.
besides they sat you dust out key baord and PC it will last long .
some one told me that Macs have thier own spiecal programs and other things.

Windows is the O.S you know,
I used to have HP
My new XPS 410 has 500mb harddrive plus a back up harddrive
i can even hook satilite tv to it on media player
and it came with a remote plus back up software and windows
also it has great 3d gphics card and great sound card

I still have the old soft of Windows 95 and windows 98 upgrade
in case anyone is interested.

not to choose side cause i do have a love for both but
this sure has some great things to say about apple

look at number
7!!!!!!!


America's most admired companies

that was for 2007 now look at it for 2008
America's most admired companies


Apple must be doing something right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:D

Macs only use thier own fickled O.S.
not to mention they cost 5 times more than other pcs
thoose own Macs must be stinking rich`

I guess this thread can't help everyone than
this is only a Apple Macs thread
for only fickled Mac users

hey Alvin how about making a thread for non Mac users ok please.

You just don't get it, do you?...
I'm trying to educate you with facts based on my own experiences with computers for the last 27 years, plus facts that are public knowledge, and you just don't get it... :banghead:

What a pitiful idiot you are...
:lol: :hysterical:

How can you help me?
I own a Dell, I use Windows,
I don't have a $3,000000 Mac PC
Your here for the the rich Mac users Flyin dutchman
that why you always POOPOOing me all the time.

There's nothing wrong with using a Dell or a Gateway or a Compaq or a Toshiba or a whatever, if that's what you chose. After all 95% of the world use them. They get the job done... But there are more productive machines that can get the job done better, faster, and with LESS FRUSTRATION...

And I'm not rich, I just made a choice for what I think is the better machine for ME and MY FAMILY...
Some people think a Honda or a Saab are better cars than a Ford or a Chevy, and buy them even though they are not rich.

Some people pay more for their beer... I read in Consumer Reports magazine some years ago that a nation-wide survey showed that Budweiser was the MOST POPULAR beer... But the more expensive Heineken (a Dutch import which I also drink), was rated the BEST by their expert testers!

Repeat after me: THE MOST POPULAR is not always THE BEST!

:lol:

Ok than, I bet $5.00 that when apple comes out with the Golden Delious
that has 600mb harddrive with a back harddrive with 3d grap[hics card
dual processors satilite tv hook up with Remote ETC ETC
you be buying that little goody ASP.

;) FlyingDutchman meet my Dell PC

http://www.dell.com/content/products/produ...s=22&l=en&s=dfh

Check it out,
and my mounthly payments are almost done.