Okay, most of you have waited an year to know what happened to the Phantom after he walked threw that mirror and off the silver screen! The rumor is he wandered his whole life still loving Christine!

But then there is a second rumor! One that I truely believe is the real truth---and it is a much happier ending!
When he left the Opera House that dark night he needed some place to hide, and he saw a big house on a hill, as he is very clever he found a way into it's extensive basement systems, and holed up there. Unknown to him at the time the house was owned by a very wealthy spinster who's family had perished in a ship off the Africa Coast with their shipping business. Her name was Dyann Muris, and being slightly older than The Phantom and having survived the slings and arrows of misfortune herself, she recognized in the Phantom (once they had made aquaintence) the wonderful man within. His face never mattered to her because she saw with her heart, she always said "But it's not so bad!!!!" With her love the Phantom healed and was able to love again, and his violent tendencies were put to rest. They lived happily ever after---and yes they had mad passionate sex!! They never did have any children, but they had a wonderful life together. And if you think this is all just a fantasy, I have a photo to share with you-----This is a French Postcard of the era, and Rumor has it it is Miss Muris and her dearest love The Phantom!

BeenThere wanted to know where I got my Antique French Postcards.
So I thought in case anyone else was interested, I would share my source. A wonderful lady named Kate has a site: VintageCharmings.com. That is where this one came from. I collect old postcards and have picked up some real treasures from her. She also has used French postage stamps and other treasures I use in my art projects! If you want a nostolgic journey to another century be sure to go over and have a looksee. Everything is (of course) one of a kind!!!! Real treasures!

AS PROMISED I AM POSTING A VINTAGE FRENCH POSTCARD OF THE ERA OF A GYPSY----RUMOR HAS IT THIS IS THE PHANTOMS MOTHER!
She was very young and dalied with a white Frenchman and after he went back to his white wife she discovered she was pregnent. The Gyspies frowned on this type of tryst, as they kept their bloodlines pure and she was voted out of the tribe of traveling caravans. She was to young, and to selfish, to be able to handle a deformed child. Eventually she sold him to the Gypsy Circus and you know the rest!


I am going to post this before I lose my server again, and then try a second time to continue my discussion as pertains to Kaies comments!

Okay, Kaie brings up a good topic, and that is the Phantoms extreme anger problems when he does not get his way! (Mystic Sin says he is bi-polar, and he does have those signs! In those days they did not have Prozac, and so then what?) Well it is my belief that the biggest part of his problem, was that being a man he was sexually frustrated!!!! He had NEVER had a woman, by his own admission! He is lusting after Christine---and she runs off with someone that he feels is less worthy than himself (he is right), but who is handsome. When it comes to his brain the Phantom has it all over Raoul! He can write operas, design buildings, do magic, and knows Gypsy potions etc. Raoul knows how to ride around looking like tha rich kid he is! Okay, so the man flipped out a bit---well who can blame him really!!!???!!!
Now if you read the above "after" story concerining his romance with Mademoiselle Muris you can clearly see that half his problems have now been solved. Mademoiselle Muris is more than pleased to give him everything he wants in bed. She adores him, and is not put off by his face! As a Spinster Virgin she has her own secret passions, and is more than happy to experiment with her beloved! She is older and wiser, and appreciates him,. She knows how to let him think the things she wants are HIS idea. She is rich and has a mansion for him to play Master of the House in. He can write his operas, design his buildings, read, paint, and have all the sex he wants with a woman who adores him. NOW--don't you think this would majorly improve his disposition???? I am sure she would also invite Madame Giry over for tew so he could visit his old friend and catch up on the news. Certainly he would not leave the tea party to go out and strangle the Gardner!!! Indeed--he no longer has any reason to be grumpie and foul tempered. He might rant about some little thing, but I am sure Miss Muris would tell him he is right, and go close a door and smile at his tantrum!!!
And that is why he was in no hurry to put the ring on Christines grave and waited two years to do so! It was not until his beloved had died and he was alone and he found the ring one day that he decided to return it to Christine. He did not need it, he let her go---he had found his one true love, and tho he would always have feeling for Christine, it now longer ruled his life. He had other memories, wonderful ones! I am sure you are happy that Phantom had such a happy ending afterall!

I agree, Gypsy! men are silly creatures. they go nuts if they don't get sex. you know the saying that a woman's heart is in her chest and a man's heart is in his trousers *roll* so true...

anyway, perhaps he should get a woman before he began "courting" (ha ha) Christine. he would be more composed and calm. forgive me for saying this, but in my opinion this Phantom (don't know about others) is very Freudian. sex is the driving force of his living. he's a brilliant musician and knows how to use his gift to lure naive, little, silly Christine... I don't thinks it's entirely fair.


one more thing, Gypsy. why do you say that Raoul is less worthy than OG? what did he do to prove himself less worthy or what did OG do to prove himself more worthy? the fact that he's a genius is a matter of talents - some have them, others don't. OG did nothing to deserve the talents he got. it's not right to judge people based on the gifts they RECEIVED form "above". yes, Raoul is a "rich kid". so? accident of birth... I got a bit confused - hope you know what I mean ;)

Okay Kaie! You actually made me see the whole thing a little differently as I had not really thought about it like that! (See and I bet you thought I was totally inflexable and would never agree with you!!!) However we are all creatures of our own experiences and my experiences make me relate to the Phantom for many reasons---and some are not ones I am going to go into here! Now you know I am not "deformed" as you have seen my photo on the other pages, and tho I will never get a crown for Miss America, I am not a hag either. But all my life I have been the underdog, the one left out, the one who never gets what others have so easily. I have never been married and I have no children. I have lived a life alone. More alone than I am going to get into. THAT is why I cried those buckets of tears---not becasue I loved the Phantom (that came later) becasue in my heart I WAS the Phantom. When Christine showed her understanding and kissed the Phantom, my heart broke because I knew intimately what that man felt inside! His tears were MY tears about my life and the unfairness of it!
Okay, you asked WHY was he more worthy----BECAUSE HE LET HER GO!!! BECAUSE DESPITE IT ALL, ALL HIS HEARTACHE, ALL HIS LONELYNESS, ALL THE CRAP THAT LIFE HAD DUMPED ON HIM---HE LOVED HER ENOUGH TO LET HER GO! Raoul wanted to protect her---I am sure he loved her---but he had lived a life that in no way made him the man the Phantom was!!! Of course he could not help that he was born rich and "pretty", but rich pretty people cannot know, cannot reach the depths of those who are not. Not their fault, just a fact. It is why I personally believe in reincarnation---he will "get it" in time, in another life. But for now he is the lucky rich pretty boy! And in my opionion the Phantom, scarred face and all was 100 times more the man Raoul could ever be---not becasue he was a genius, becasue despite his problems mental and physical he reached the depths and love conqueed his heart AND HE LET HER GO!!! he knew the purest form of love in the end. He could have killed Raoul, ravished Christine, no one could stop him. He could have chose that path, instead he chose the path of ultimate love---he sent her off to live a life with another man, believeing he would spend the rest of his days (and he was young yet) ALONE.....and tho I will spend the rest of my days alone, my poor heart could not wish that fate for him. He deserved more. And so I gave him a love, the woman he needed in Mademoiselle Muris. And so my heart will not hurt for him, becasue I know the ending was right. In real life that does not always happen. But I was in control. It is all a fantasy---the whole thing, the Phantom from square one. And I finished the fantasy. You are free to finsih it the way you want it to end. I hope I have made you see it a little differently as well---we obciously are miles apart in personalities, and yet we ended up here with admiration for the same man, and that man played this Phantom, and gave him a humanity he never had before!!! *shh*

I see you point. to be honest with you, I did know you related to OG, but I didn't know that you realted to him that much. and I do respect it. in fact, I think it's beautiful :)
OG did deserve more - no doubt. Christine couldn't give him what he needed. she was in love with someone else. you know, I think she LOVED Raoul and ADMIRED Erik (if you don't mind me calling him that). Erik was her mentor, her maestro, someone she respected and was drawn to, but not loved. I've been thinking a lot about it lately (yeah, I have no life) and I came up with this: Christine was drawn to Erik because of his music, and music alone. and he knew about it, so he used his music to get the one he... well.. desired. I'm willing to discuss this further. how do you think, what was it they REALLY felt? I think it's interesting.

about Raoul, perhaps he'd already lived a miserable life, he was a good person and now he's rich :lol: I don't know. I'm not a big fan of reincarnation...

oh, and one more thing I've been thinking about. you mentioned that Erik let Christine go, because he loved her. I'm not saying it's not true, but just think about it... why would he make her choose, then? why all this? why catpturing Raoul? why dragging her to the dungeons? he could let her go much earlier, couldn't he?
besides, he let them go right after he'd heard the voices of the people comming down to find him. it was this very minute he changed his mind. why??

She may not have loved him but she was strongly sexually drawn to him--point in fact ---when they sing Point of No Return ------she was more sexually drawn to him that she ever was to Raoul. Sorry, for interjecting ladies, but very interesting arguments.

I totally agree. I believe that's how it was.
still, and I may be wrong of course, sexual attraction is likely to die sooner or later. I think (and this popped into my head just now!!!) that the music here repersents sexuality. you think it's a possible interpretationn?

Oh, absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The overpowering nature of it ......the almost but not quite perfect seduction. Even Raoul had a tear in his eye ...he knew she was more sexually attracted to the Phantom. But true love won out............cooler heads over raging hormones. And her final most heinous betrayal in front of hundreds of people....at a moment when he had allowed himself to trust her again, after allowing her so close once before .....................You see I HATE betrayal. It is my least favorite word in the English language. Definition: To divulge in a breach of confidence -
to think that one you trust with your deepest most vulnerable self would choose to hurt you in front of the public. My heart broke for him.

While I was gone, you girls had a great discussion!
Yes Christine felt sexual attraction for "Erik"---she may not even known what she was feeling as it was new to her and overpowering! The Point of No Return is a SEXUAL point, that is for sure!!!
As for him "hearing" the people coming---I don't think he did, he was totally enraged beyond that!!! He WANTED to kill Raoul!!!! He WANTED sex with Christine, but he always wanted her as his BRIDE not to rape her--so he did have goodness in his heart. He PLANNED to force Christine to choose, and he was betting he could make her choose him. But when she KISSED him, and he had been alone all his life---surely the mother who sold him did not kiss him, when he felt that she CARED for him it broke him---it broke him apart and he let her go!!! None of us knows what we will do at the moment of truth until it happens! None of us know what our measure is! But when it came, he did the right thing, the noble thing "it is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done before". He could have slung her over his broad shoulder and ran from the crowd coming to kill him. She was so little, no burden at all---but he let her go and asked only that they NEVER speak of him and what had happened "never to tell of the angel in hell". He was in hell, and even in that hell he did LOVE her---a love few people are ever able to reach. One beyond self!
As for Raoul, the Bible said it well "It is easier for a camel to go threw the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to go to Heaven."
Raoul paid his price after. His price to have Christine was to know a tiny part of her always belonged to the Angel in Hell. But he loved her---that showed his merit as well, that old mans face was one who had known a deep love for another. And we will never know in the end what Christine really felt, but I think she could not forget the man she betrayed, and that betrayal must have been heavy upon her heart all the days of her life!
Hey Kaie, I don't have a life either--but the Phantom fills my life! He has brought me a peace I never knew before. His courage lifted me up! What more can you ask??? *shh*

you're right. maybe I was too harsh judging Erik. maybe he did love her. I'm not entirely convinced, but that's my problem.
but the fact that he let them go made it all so unnecessary... I don't know. maybe, just MABYBE Christine didn't choose Erik. maybe she did it for Raoul and Raoul only and Erik knew it? and he thought: "she'll never be mine the way I need her to be"?
I don't know. I suck at psychology :lol:

Ok, ladies, I'm jumping in here, too. I think he was conflicted with feelings. He wanted her and couldn't come to grips with all the myriad of feelings - come on this was 19th century - no self introspection and he had been locked up in a dungeon - he lacked the social skills most people pick up just by living a normal life. He first thought he could force her to be with him and then when she kissed him in the water - it seemed like a real moment when they both connected - not just a pity kiss. Let's not forget that she had betrayed him tortuously twice for little reason. He could not understand why she removed the mask - he had no coping skills for dealing with the anger and betrayal - he has been mistreated horribly as a child and people go through a lifetime of therapy these days for such abuse, often never being able to reach out with love to others - He had been betrayed by his mother - remember the lyric -"mask, my first, an unfeeling scrap of clothing" something about "mother's fear and loathing". Once betrayed - the worst thing that can happen to you is to be betrayed by someone else you love.- he had no tools for dealing with these issue, so his reactions were typical of someone who had not developed socially, psychologically or emotionally. It was then that he realized that he loved her more than himself and his future. He let her go, sacrificing his own future happiness because he loved her. It seemed obvious to me at the time, that he loved her enough to let her go without harm to her or to Raoul . He could have killed Raoul and forced her to go with him or he could have raped her in front of Raoul. He could have killed them both. Instead he sent them off safely, and retreated, which was different than he had ever reacted before to such intense pressure - so it had to be from his love for her.

Also---when he let her go---the mob was NOT that close (and I don't think he heard them at that moment anyway, his mind was overstressed with the Christine thing), becasue he sat by the bed and listened to the music box, and Christine came back and all that happened before he broke th mirrors and left threw one to his excape tunnel. So the mob was never an issue in his letting her go! I thought of that after I signed off last night. I think seeing the time frame really clarifies that issue!
BeenThere---you did a beautiful job describeing the Phantoms inner turmoil anothe thing, nowadays they know that if babies are not held a lot when then are tiny they develop emotional problems. They even have volunteers come in to hospitals to help hold babies in the care units for that reason---I don't think his mother was interested in holding that poor baby!!! She would not even want that face nurseing on her breast---I am sure he terrified and discusted her---that poor poor little boy!!!! I cry thinking of it! No wonder the poor man had anger issues! And the worst thing anyone ever did to him was to bare his face on that stage in front of all those stareing gasping people!!! How his heart must have broke when the woman he loved and trusted did that to him!!!!
*2*

I was looking for the Topic of where I posted a photo of the Phantoms mother, and low and behold this was it!
I was really amazed to reread some of this, becaue we really did have an intense discussion going on!
Maybe some of the new people will like to join in here and give us their views about what we talked about!!!
I was going to put another pix up on here when I found the Mothers photo thread, but I now think I will start another topic with that one and let this go on alone! :um:

Would the new girls like to weigh in on this topic???? :um:

:um: Certainly! But you stole my love story about he and I. Ending part? I thought he disappeared magically.

My brother suggested he was beamed up by Aliens---of course he has always had a screw loose! *lmao*

*larke* Doesn't really matter what story thereoff, all I know is he ended up with me! And we lived happily ever after........

Upsie dasey----here comes anther oldie for a fresh looksie!!!!

Ohhh! this is a great thread!! *agree*

I went back to page one of this thread and saw that you had a heavy discussion with kaie. That girl can talk! *shh* last time she posted was 4/2006. Thanks for BenThere--being the referee.

Unfortunately we could not iron out our differences, and Kaie left our group. She had a personal history with an alcoholic father and a abusive boyfriend as she told us at one point (I think BeenThere deleated the thread, and that made Kaie madder) anyway she could not relate to the Phantom and found him a hopeless loser and could not understand what we saw in hime---well I wish her well where ever she is---I wish she's find her way back here someday!
If she does we could just start again, and NOT talk about the Phantom!!! Too sad! :wah:

You cannot avoid talking about the Phantom. He's the reason why we are all here.

Anyways, I'm proud of you backing up Gerard and understanding his feelings. Sounds like she couldn't relate to the movie and she can't put her shoes in his place. I would do the same thing and probably more!! She wouldn't like me at all.

SHE should have just avoided the topic of POTO and only posted on the other threads since she had such a problem with it!
I mean you trash my Phantom you better get outta my way!!!! *2*
She was a nice girl except for this obcession about how lunatic the Phantom was! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not necessarily, not just because of the Phantom. My head was turned because Gerry was attractive, but I'm here because of his seemingly warm personality and quick wit. There are a lot of attractive actors out there, but Gerry stands out because he's so appreciative of his fans. I love the Phantom of the Opera story, and I think Gerry did a wonderful job singing and acting in it, but I'm not here just because of the Phantom character.

I love the way he treats his fans! He is so sweet, humble and down to earth. He's not stuck up or conceited. He tries to accommodate everybody. I think that's cool.

If it hadn't been for Gerry playing the Phantom Character I would not be here---however once I got into the whole actor thing I realized what a jewel he is, so I am a fan of his----------but I am in love with the Phantom, especially (for those who read it) the slant I gave him in my novel, I gave hima a much more expanded personality and life experience. In short I made him a REAL man and not just the character Andrew Lloyd and Gaston Leroux wrote!

*happy* True! I also noticed that he is such a good actor. A brilliant one! He could act as a mysterious person, a lover, a devil (dracula), or some really old movies fighting with sword. The guy is talented!

Just wanted to keep this at least up on the first page---hate to see my good threads dissappear! :um:

me too. Anyway, after POTO ended? I know he met the woman of his dreams. Her name is Madam Muris. *kilt*

Actually her name is MADEMOISELLE MURIS---as she was never married.
Old Maid---until the Phantom came along and encouraged her to VAVAVAVOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!! *custard*

*lmao* and a happily ever after story!

They both deserve it!

WOW---IT'S BEEN OVER A YEAR SINCE THIS ONE MADE IT UP OUT OF THE BASEMENT!
MORE THAN TIME FOR IT TO COME UP FOR LIGHT! WE'VE GOT NEWBEES WHO MIGHT LIKE A LOOKSEE!

It was such a great discussion the three of you were having..what, 2 years ago?!?! It's amazing how fast it goes by.

I feel that whatever happened to the Phantom after that horrible incident with Christine, I just hope he knew love for the rest of his life. Dyann's version was such a sweet way for him to end up, so I hope that if there is any truth whatsoever to there ever being an actual Phantom, that he felt the love he'd been so long rejected from.

IN ANOTHER DIMENSION---ANOTHER PLACE--ANOTHER TIME----ME AND GERARD LOCKED TOGETHER AS THE PHANTOM AND MADEMOISELLE MURIS! OH YEAH!
READ MY NOVEL AND LIVE THE EXPERIENCE.......... *iSOrock*
Gypsy deffinately plugs that Novel---hey it's not for ME---everyone who read it was like..... *eek* *faint*
I've got a New Phantom FAN (only saw POTO in January) now reading it and she is *9*

ANYONE GOT ANY NEW IDEAS ABOUT THIS????? *shh*