i mentioned this in another thread earlier today..i thought it was an article, but it ended up just being a topic started on another forum. i took a look into "the dungeons" and found nothing on this topic, so i figured i'd start one up. i've always been interested in the story of "the phantom of the opera" since i was a little girl. the movie, of course, just heightened my fascination to almost the point of obsession. of course, i know all of you can relate-LOL! anyway, you might be one of those people who say "i really want to believe. i want erik, christine, raoul, etc. to be real. but there's not enough proof." let's take a look at the facts, shall we?

~there was a man (the name escapes me right now) who wanted to hide away like a spider beneath the opera house after he helped build it. the other architects used to joke around about him being a phantom.

~what about box five? there is a compartment big enough for 2 men to fit in there. isn't it possible that box five is where the phantom collected his salary from madame giry and made his image known?

~ the initials R.C. (Raoul DeChagny) were found on a wall underneath the Opera Garnier, along with a skeleton with a gold wedding band around its finger, found right next to a well.

~of course, those who know of the Opera Garnier know that there is an actual underground lake-someone could have been living down there and nobody would know about it.

~there was also once an opera singer, Christine Nilson, who sang at the Opera Garnier and mysteriously disappeared one night.

~a chandelier once hung proudly, fell unexplainably on May 20, 1896-killing only one woman that was supposed to replace a certain boxkeeper.

i really am a firm believer that the phantom was real..not "a creature of the imagination of the artists, the supersition of the managers, or the absurd and imperessionable brains of the young ladies of the ballet, their mothers, the box-keepers, the cloak room attendents, or the concierge. " y

your thoughts? and can anyone add to the list of facts? :um:

Very, very interesting, Mischa. If it's a fact, I'm more fascinated about the story of The Phantom of the Opera and I definitely want to know more about it.

The incidents that you mentioned have connections to what happened and of course through the years of remaking the story I'm sure it's not the exact anymore. The story had changed a little over here and there.

The dungeon I believe is real. Heck, if they have that in the Philippines, (we do have a small Opera House here, but I don't know where) because of the population and poverty people did live down there, and that's a fact.

There is also a dvd on the old Phantom of the Opera, but this one is a horror movie and not musical either. Nothing like what we know. The Phantom was a real murderer and he sewed his face to put it together.

Anybody else wants to comment on this? I love the subject. I think we should keep this thread going til we get some answers.









*erik*

When Gaston Leroux wrote his novel, he sewed together all the rumors and legends that surrounded the Opera House, plus real events like the REAL fire that happened there.
Of course his Phantom was madder than a hatter, and not particuarily likeable.
Perhaps there was not just one man but several who became one in legend.
Interesting, but as it's NOT our Phantom not revelent to me.

Now this next part---people might think I AM MADDER THAN A HATTER for this, and Monique might be offended religion wise, but hell I am putting it out there anyway! I'm not saying anything is FACT---just that it is interesting to THINK about!
Metaphysical thought is that our "many lifetimes" (even Jesus said in Heaven there were "many mansions"), might not all be one solid line on earth. We KNOW there are many dimensions. New Quantum Physics, and the String Therory, Einstein's theory, etc opens up new worlds to us!
So the possibility is that now even as I write this, in another dimension I might be doing something else in a different lifeline. There could be layers and layers of lives all running at different dimensions!
Further metaphysical thought is that WE EXPERIENCE DIFFERENT OUTCOMES ON DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS! In other words tho in this one Al Gore "lost" the Presidency. In another dimension he might be experiencing BEING the President in a different world. In that world we did not go to war on Iraq. Maybe in that world Gerry is a Lawyer and earning fame in the courtroom!

SO WHAT THE DEVIL IS THIS TO DO WITH THE PHANTOM????
ANOTHER CONCEPT OF THIS IS THAT THE POWER OF THOUGHT CREATES!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Even Jesus said "Say to the mountain go here or there and you can make it" or words to that effect.) IF THE POWER OF THOUGHT CREATES----WHAT ABOUT THE POWER OF THOSANDS OF PEOPLE THINKING, DREAMING, MAKING THE PHANTOM REAL!!! First it was a thought in Andrew Lloyd's mind, then it was a play and people put POWER into the idea, finely it was a movie and GERARD BUTLER COMPLEATED THE CHARACTER! It never was what it became in the movie---------Gerry "sometimes I felt like I did not know where I ended and the Phantom began." "Sometimes I felt like I was going crazie playing the phantom" "Sometimes I felt like something outside me was directing me"
What IF it was the PHANTOM FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION?????
ONE HE AND US CREATED!!!
WHAT IF IN ANOTHER DIMENSION HE REALLY IS LIVING OUT THE LIFE OF THE PHANTOM????
Okay, now it gets NUTS!!!!
That story wasn't finished, old Phantom didn't have an ENDING to it really---------UNTIL I WROTE A STORY!!! I felt when I was typing it that it was oftentimes "coming to me from someplace else", I could not believer I wrote it! People who knew me could not believe I wrote it! People who knew of my inexperience with men could not imagine how I had created "the intimate moments" between the characters! BeenThere even said that to me!
WHAT IF MY STORY (newbees, you can read it in the Poppet Discussions thread) CREATED ANOTHER ME IN THAT DIMENSION. WHAT IF I AM MADEMOISELLE MURIS THERE AND I AM WITH THE PHANTOM/GERRY!!!!!!!!!!!!
OKAY NOW THAT I FREAKED EVERYONE OUT I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT!
Maybe I'm NUTS but I promise I am harmless!!!!
MY POINT IS WITHER YOU WANT TO TAKE THE LEAP WITH ME IN THE PICTURE, I DO BELIEVE THE PHANTOM LIVES IN SOME DIMENSION IN HIS GLORY, AND HE IS THE BUTLER PHANTOM, NOT SOME NUTTER!

Guess I freaked everyone out with this one--no one so much as admitted to reading it!!!
Come on girls, it's a POSSIBILITY, lighten up a bit!
I don't think it's any more far fetched than the idea that there was a REAL Phantom under the Opera House!
There are those who belive that ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE IS BEING PLAYED OUT IN REALITY IN SOME DIMENSION SOMEPLACE. Well I have a good imagination!!!!
Either that or I'm going to enjoy the basket weaveing class at the home with those nice men in those white coats! *custard*

of course--it's always a possibility! i'm just talking about pure, physical facts. no doubt you felt something more powerful than words can say while writing your story. maybe i'm naive, but i believe in everything. and that includes the real phantom. there have just been too many coincidences for it NOT to be real. and now we have the fire at the opera house to add to the list! i'm going to keep trying to add to the list....if you girls find any other proof, please post it here!

..."open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed" that's in the book of Proverbs

I think you went overboard, my friend. *hrt*

The Opera House fire happened BEFORE Leroux wrote it, so he just used it to weave his story---but I'll let you believe in the real Phantom, if you let me believe in my multidimensional one! giggle

Monique---I knew you'd have trouble with it, so not much to say except I don't mind being OVERBOARD---see I decided a long time ago it was more fun to be crazie than sane! *LOL*

Who said THERE ARE MORE THINGS IN HEAVEN AND EARTH THAN MEETS THE EYE HORATIO---Shakespeare maybe?

Well I shoulda probably kept it to myself, but Mischa sorta stared it, and I felt maybe I'd just throw it out. I never said it was TRUE, you know just that it COULD BE TRUE---and I"m sticking to my belief!!! *custard*

I still think you went overboard...poor thing you..

Okie dokie then, poor me!!!! *custard*

nahhh, she didn't go overboard! not to ME anyway! lol...everyone has their beliefs...coming into this (yes, i know i started it haha) i wanted everyone's opinions--metaphysical or not--to be told. i like that i have a single dimensional outlook, while gypsy has a multidimensional one! makes it more interesting! :)

Okay, Mischa you are YOUNG and in collage--eventually you will run into some of this stuff, when you do just remember old Gypsy was the one who told you about it FIRST! :um: "OH THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT! HOLY COW!!!"
*custard* (Holy Cow from ANOTHER DIMENSION!!!)

giggle giggle giggle