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Title: Superstar Graham in DWB HoF?
Description: Yes or no? Let's argue this time.


SamoaRowe - May 2, 2005 02:44 PM (GMT)
Superstar Bill Graham

Career Highlights:


In The Beginning

Wayne became a devoted Christian as a teenager..
Wayne would use his feats of strength as a tool to draw people into his evangelistic meetings..
Wayne won numerous bodybuilding titles as a teenager..
Wayne played pro football for nearly three years with the Houston Oilers and Oakland Raiders before entering the wrestling ranks..
Wayne took on the name Billy Graham as a wrestler in dedication to the world renowned preacher..
Wayne entered the sport as the youngest "brother" in the famous Graham wrestling "family"..

Getting His Start

Graham made a huge impact on the sport, and was giving Verne Gagne a serious run for the AWA World title..
1974: Graham won the NWA Hawaiian Heavyweight title..
October 1975: Graham competed in the Mid-Atlantic territory of the NWA for several months..
~~~While in MACW, Graham fueded with Wahoo McDaniel and briefly teamed with Steve Strong..
1976: Graham won the NWA Florida Heavyweight title defeating Dusty Rhodes..
Graham won the NWA Florida Tag Team title (w/Ox Baker).
1977: Graham won the Southern Heavyweight championship defeating Dusty Rhodes..

World Wide Wrestling Federation

Billy Graham went to the WWWF and was managed by The Grand Wizard..
March 30, 1977: Graham defeated his longtime enemy Bruno Sammartino for the World Wide Wrestling Federation championship..
Graham faced every worthy challenger in the WWWF during his reign as champion..
~~~Defeated Sammartino, Rhodes, Putski, Strongbow, Monsoon, Zbysko, Garea, Mascaras & Backlund among many others..
1977: Graham battled Harley Race in the firt ever NWA vs. WWWF World Title Unification match..
~~~The two world champions wrestled to a bloody one-hour draw..
February 2, 1978: Bob Backlund defeated Billy Graham to win the WWWF World Heavyweight title..
WORTHLESS TRIVIA: Graham the only WWF champion to both win and lose the title with his feet on the ropes..
Graham teamed briefly with his "half-brother" Crazy Luke Graham, and also Ivan Koloff, having great success with both..
Graham engaged in a legendary fued with Dusty Rhodes..
Graham defeated Dusty Rhodes in a classic Texas Bullrope Match..
Graham left the WWWF shortly after..

Keeping Busy

Graham appeared on CBS's "The World's Strongest Man" competition in 1980..
Graham made a few scattered appearances in Memphis to face Jerry Lawler..
Rumors began to spread that Billy Graham had died -- which turned out to be FALSE..

Back in the World Wrestling Federation

1983: "Superstar" Billy Graham (with a new bald look) reappeared on WWF television and confronted Bob Backlund..
~~~Graham then proceeded to take the leather and gold WWF title belt and literally tear it in half!
~~~Graham left the WWF again soon after..

The AWA & Floria Return

Graham wrestled briefly in the American Wrestling Association..


Graham would eventually resurface back in Florida territory..
June 10, 1984: Superstar Billy Graham defeated Billy Jack for the Florida State Heavyweight title..
November 22, 1984 - Starrcade: Wahoo McDaniel defeated Billy Graham to retain the United States title..
July 6, 1985 - Great American Bash: Manny Fernandez, Sam Houston & Buzz Tyler beat Billy Graham, Konga the Barbarian & Abdullah the Butcher..
November 28, 1985 - Starrcade: Billy Graham defeated the Barbarian in an Arm Wrestling match..

Last Run in the WWF

Summer 1987: Graham once again jumped to the WWF for one last run..
Graham won his first match back (WWF "Superstars" tv) in a squash against Bob Bradley..
Graham was immediately challenged by "The Natural" Butch Reed, who claimed that he had the better physique..
~~~This led to a posedown on WWF TV that resulted in both Reed and his manager Slick attacking Graham!


1987: The years of steroid use had finally taken their toll on his body..
~~~Some of Graham's skeletal structure was eaten away and died, most affected area was his hip..
~~~Graham actually wrestled with a severely damaged hip during this last WWF stint..
~~~Graham was told by doctors that he required hip-replacement surgury..


Fall 1997: Graham vs Butch Reed ended when Slick & One Man Gang interfered and they demolished Graham..
~~~Luckily, Don Muraco came to Billy's aid..
Graham underwent his hip-replacement surgery knowing it would end his wrestling career..

Billy Graham the Manager

Graham became the manager for Don "The Rock" Muraco..
Summerslam 1988: Graham's last big WWF appearance where he provided colour commentary from ringside..
Graham left the WWF for the last time..

Legacy of the Superstar

Graham influenced many wrestlers including Austin Idol, Steve Strong, Jesse Ventura, Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner & Flesh Gordon..
Graham now speaks out against drug and alcohol abuse..
Graham also helps point people to the benefits of a personal relationship with God..
Famous Quote: "I'm the man of the hour, the man with the power, too sweet to be sour!"

Billy Graham's Battle

January 2, 2002 - Billy Graham has made a remarkable recovery after suffering four burst veins stemming from advanced liver disease..
~~~This sort of occurance could have been fatal..
~~~Graham underwent several blood transfusions during the day as he had lost so much blood..
~~~Due to a lack of circulation, he was in danger of losing his extremities..
~~~Graham's internal bleeding has stopped and they are hopeful he will be able to get out of intensive care unit..
~~~Graham was hospitalized with internal bleeding for ten days about one month ago..
~~~Graham first learned that he would be needing a liver transplant a month ago..
~~~However, he didn't learn until the last few days of the severity of the liver damage..


October 2002 - Billy Graham's liver was checked out yesterday and he does not have the feared liver cancer..
~~~Graham is also in line for a liver donation that would potentially save his life.


October 18, 2002: Billy Graham underwent a successful liver replacement operation at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix.
~~~Graham was called in earlier that day with word that they had found a liver from a woman who had died in an accident..
~~~Doctors have said his recovery after surgery considering all his health problems has been amazing..
Billy Graham has reached a deal with Vince McMahon to publish his autobiography with Simon & Schuster..
March 12, 2004: Billy Graham was hospitalized in New York with the same intestinal ailment that had him hospitalized a month back..
~~~Billy Graham's intestine began poking out of his stomach, in an "Alien" type fashion..
March 13, 2004 - WWE: Billy "Superstar" Graham is inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame during a ceremony in New York City!
March 14, 2004 - Wrestlemania XX: Billy "Superstar" Graham is honored with all the other Hall of Fame inductees during the PPV..
December 28, 2004 - WWE Live Event: "Superstar" Billy Graham appears for a live interview and knocks the Coach out cold!
February 25, 2005--Live Event @ MSG: The Coach interviews Superstar Billy Graham, who knocks the Coach on his ass!
February 28, 2005 - RAW: Superstar Billy Graham encourages Randy Orton to step up and do something to set himself apart..



Mad Dog - May 2, 2005 02:53 PM (GMT)
Yes. Considering heels are still ripping off his act almost 30 years later.

whitemilesdavis - May 2, 2005 03:01 PM (GMT)
Yes. Pretty much on entertainment value alone.

dynamite kido - May 2, 2005 03:16 PM (GMT)
On his gimmick alone, I'd say yes. But because of his in ring work that is WELL below average and his horrible stint with the Kung Fu gimmick I'd say no. I really don't know which way to go on this one.....

SamoaRowe - May 2, 2005 03:46 PM (GMT)
Would there have been a character like Hulk Hogan without Superstar Graham making it big before him? I'll admit that even though I made this nomination, I'm torn on the subject myself.

Mad Dog - May 2, 2005 03:47 PM (GMT)
I'm not keen on Graham the worker but Graham the gimmick has been such a template for heels that it's hard not to make him a Hall of Famer.

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 04:06 PM (GMT)
Billy Graham, although a horrible wrestler (so was Hulk Hogan, I know), but he had charisma through the roof, and has had his gimmick stolen by at least two well known wrestlers (Jesse Ventura and Hogan), and, if I'm not mistaken, the longest reigning heel champion in the (W)WWF/E.

I'll vote yes on charisma, accomplishments, and influence, but no on wrestling ability.

SamoaRowe - May 2, 2005 04:16 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Scrooge McSuck @ May 2 2005, 10:06 AM)
Billy Graham, although a horrible wrestler (so was Hulk Hogan, I know), but he had charisma through the roof, and has had his gimmick stolen by at least two well known wrestlers (Jesse Ventura and Hogan), and, if I'm not mistaken, the longest reigning heel champion in the (W)WWF/E.

I'll vote yes on charisma, accomplishments, and influence, but no on wrestling ability.

I'm not positive if JBL and HHH have had longer reigns or not (though HHH would be with the World title, not the WWE title).

I ended up voting for yes because he really is one of the most influential professional wrestlers in history. For better or for worse, he helped change wrestling.

And it looks like we're going to have another easy induction. That is okay though, because I figure if we have a HOF of guys we can be happy with, it will make our convictions on future nominees all the more meaningful.

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 04:21 PM (GMT)
Speaking of Billy Graham.... nominate Hogan, bitch!

And yeah, I thought this would be a pretty easy one again. Way to shake things up, Rowe!

Edit: I knew I shouldn't have taken out "until recently" for the World Title reign, but I forgot JBL was champion for 9 months.

jamiegeist - May 2, 2005 05:31 PM (GMT)
overkill. maybe this would be a better monthly feature.

whitemilesdavis - May 2, 2005 05:56 PM (GMT)
Geist may have a point. I say after this we move it to monthly.

I should have thought more on this vote. I would probably say no if I were to vote again. His in-ring work was bad, and to be honest, his "character" had more to do with being the first roid freak than anything else.

dynamite kido - May 2, 2005 06:02 PM (GMT)
Why don't we do like 5 a month at once and no more. That way it would still be interesting without the overkill.......

whitemilesdavis - May 2, 2005 06:05 PM (GMT)
How could you do 5 at once.

dynamite kido - May 2, 2005 06:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ May 2 2005, 12:05 PM)
How could you do 5 at once.

Five nominations with only one going in.

whitemilesdavis - May 2, 2005 06:14 PM (GMT)
That sounds like fun, but we better cut it to 3 since we have so few votes. Wouldn't want every guy to get 1 or 2 votes you know.

dynamite kido - May 2, 2005 06:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ May 2 2005, 12:14 PM)
That sounds like fun, but we better cut it to 3 since we have so few votes. Wouldn't want every guy to get 1 or 2 votes you know.

Sounds good to me...

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 06:50 PM (GMT)
I think that's a good idea. At this rate, we'll have 52 nominated in a year, since everyone is being voted yes. The only non-entry was Brody, and maybe he should be given a second chance. :P

dynamite kido - May 2, 2005 06:53 PM (GMT)
Considering that Brody wasn't voted in because people here haven't seen enough, yet I doubt many people here have seen an abundance of Graham. This is really starting to get screwed up.............

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 06:57 PM (GMT)
That makes me wonder, maybe this whole voting thing should be a lot more into it than saying yes and no. As in, more rules that enforce the voting to be fair to the wrestler/manager/whatever. 5 people can vote "yes" or "no" and never have seen a single thing of that person.

SamoaRowe - May 2, 2005 07:06 PM (GMT)
If people think this is becoming overkill, I can try changing it to a new nominee every other week. I actually wasn't counting on every single nomination (sans Brody) making it in.

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 07:08 PM (GMT)
I'm actually not surprised... the only one I had doubts for was for Sting, because he really didn't draw much as a champion, and wasn't that good of a wrestler compared to other selections.

SamoaRowe - May 2, 2005 07:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Scrooge McSuck @ May 2 2005, 01:08 PM)
I'm actually not surprised... the only one I had doubts for was for Sting, because he really didn't draw much as a champion, and wasn't that good of a wrestler compared to other selections.

I had doubts about Graham because posters here in general feel work-rate is more important.

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 07:20 PM (GMT)
Maybe if it was the Workrate Hall of Fame, but that's obviously not the sole purpose of voting, otherwise Curt Hennig would've gotten a Perfect score.

SamoaRowe - May 2, 2005 07:23 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Scrooge McSuck @ May 2 2005, 01:20 PM)
Maybe if it was the Workrate Hall of Fame, but that's obviously not the sole purpose of voting, otherwise Curt Hennig would've gotten a Perfect score.

Exactly. The reason I kept the criteria so low was so everyone could vote based on their own personal opinions and standards for what a hall of famer should be. The more restrictions put on this, the better.

Benoit is God - May 2, 2005 09:29 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Billy Graham, although a horrible wrestler (so was Hulk Hogan, I know),

Ugh, Hogan was not a "horrible wrestler." Didn't I already explain this? ;)


I voted "no" on Graham. In all the matches I've seen he was flat-out bad. Just awkward as hell, no moves, no bumps. Even Backlund couldn't get anything out of him.

And his influence is overrated. Hogan would've been Hogan with or without Graham, because Hogan had the talent.

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 09:30 PM (GMT)
I'm a Hogan mark myself, but I won't claim Hogan was anything more than an average wrestler in his prime, which ended about 17 years ago. :(

Benoit is God - May 2, 2005 09:33 PM (GMT)
So Hogan didn't have a good match after...1988? I guess I was dreaming when I saw him carry Ultimate Warrior to a very good match in 1990. ;)



Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 09:46 PM (GMT)
I mean his consistancy in the ring... but carrying Warrior to a good match is a better accomplishment than having a good match with Randy Savage.

Mad Dog - May 2, 2005 10:00 PM (GMT)
Hogan's more consistent than he gets credit for. When you really get into his work the *** matches really start to pile up.

Scrooge McSuck - May 2, 2005 10:06 PM (GMT)
The only problem I think with Hogan is, unless you got local broadcasted networks like NESN, MSG, etc. etc., you didn't really get to see him much on T.V. He wrestled maybe 1 time a year on Superstars, never on Challenge, and occasionally his matches were broadcasted on PTW.

Also, when he was wrestling people like Big John Studd and Andre The Giant (10 years past his prime), you rarely get a chance to shine.

prof_plague - May 2, 2005 11:30 PM (GMT)
Watching Hogan Sunday, he was able to get the crowd going only be beating the top turnbuckle. Could Graham do that?

dynamite kido - May 2, 2005 11:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (prof_plague @ May 2 2005, 05:30 PM)
Watching Hogan Sunday, he was able to get the crowd going only be beating the top turnbuckle. Could Graham do that?

Considering he was a major heel......I think you may be looking at this incorrectly.

whitemilesdavis - May 3, 2005 12:31 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Ugh, Hogan was not a "horrible wrestler." Didn't I already explain this?


Yes you did, and you were wrong that time too.

dynamite kido - May 3, 2005 12:57 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ May 3 2005, 06:31 AM)
QUOTE
Ugh, Hogan was not a "horrible wrestler." Didn't I already explain this?


Yes you did, and you were wrong that time too.

I would disagree.....care to explain?

whitemilesdavis - May 3, 2005 01:06 PM (GMT)
Who me?

dynamite kido - May 3, 2005 01:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ May 3 2005, 07:06 AM)
Who me?

Yep.....Hogan is better than a lot of smarks give him credit for.......

whitemilesdavis - May 3, 2005 01:24 PM (GMT)
I can't think of a match of his that I liked, and that includes the horribly overrated Warrior shoulder block fest. People complain about Flair's matches being the same? What about Hogan? Every match he had before turning heel was exactly the same. He was everything about wrestling that I hated as a kid with the goofy cartoony stuff. When he got big, it was no longer about a fake sport, it was about a super-hero fighting villains. Just last night when HHH had Benoit in the sleeper, it ocurred to me that Hogan killed that move. When I used to watch Georgia, a sleeper could very well end a match, but then every Hogan match had that stupid spot where his hand drops twice, but then on the third time the finger starts wagging. It killed the hold. He did that to many other moves too, and I find that irritating.

So what makes him great?
Selling? Nope

Moveset? No way

Classic matches? A few *** do not equal classic.

I'll give you that he had a great look and people dug his mic work, even though I find it to be terrible too.

Don't give me the argument that he was a huge draw, because I'm sure you don't believe the Backstreet Boys were great musicians.

Scrooge McSuck - May 3, 2005 01:28 PM (GMT)
Because comparing Hogan to the fucking Backstreet Boys is a really good comparison.

If I've learned anything, it's to never argue with one of the following...

1. Shawn Michaels fanboy
2. Hulk Hogan Hater
3. Someone who doesn't know what the english language is.

All three just turn into a looping of argument which consists of the same arguments.

Off the Record: Kiss my ass for not liking Hogan. :P

dynamite kido - May 3, 2005 01:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ May 3 2005, 07:24 AM)
I can't think of a match of his that I liked, and that includes the horribly overrated Warrior shoulder block fest. People complain about Flair's matches being the same? What about Hogan? Every match he had before turning heel was exactly the same. He was everything about wrestling that I hated as a kid with the goofy cartoony stuff. When he got big, it was no longer about a fake sport, it was about a super-hero fighting villains. Just last night when HHH had Benoit in the sleeper, it ocurred to me that Hogan killed that move. When I used to watch Georgia, a sleeper could very well end a match, but then every Hogan match had that stupid spot where his hand drops twice, but then on the third time the finger starts wagging. It killed the hold. He did that to many other moves too, and I find that irritating.

So what makes him great?
Selling? Nope

Moveset? No way

Classic matches? A few *** do not equal classic.

I'll give you that he had a great look and people dug his mic work, even though I find it to be terrible too.

Don't give me the argument that he was a huge draw, because I'm sure you don't believe the Backstreet Boys were great musicians.

Well, WMD sorry bro.....but your argument is flawed. First off Hogan was a master of working the crowd. Yes, better than ANYONE that has ever been in pro wrestling period. I understand if you don't like the cartoony stuff and whatnot, but Hogan was a larger than life character. He was SUPPOST to be the hero fighting back from the hands of defeat. Also, Hogan didn't kill the sleeper. Plenty of people can be accredited with that, it's not solely Hogan. Hogan didn't kill ANY move as the guys got a genuine rub by working with him.

What makes him great? Hogan had more charisma than ANYONE that has ever worked in the business. Plus, he made more money than anyone that's ever been in it too.......and ask any worker, if you aren't in it for money.......you are a mark.

Also Hogan was a huge draw for YEARS. Bad comparison between music and wrestling, they are two different things. You could have picked any band that drew huge crowds for years, yet you chose the Backstreet's to back up your argument just to make it sound more negative. How does it compare to this....

QUOTE
Don't give me the argument that he was a huge draw, because I'm sure you don't believe the Rolling Stones were great musicians.


Doesn't quite look the same huh?

Mad Dog - May 3, 2005 01:41 PM (GMT)
All of Hogan's matches with Orndorff were good
some of his brawls with Don Muraco were excellent
Bash at the Beach 94
vs. Slaughter at WMVII
vs. Savage at WMV
vs. Harley Race on Saturday Night Main Event
vs. King Kong Bundy Saturday Night Main Event
vs. Ted Dibiase and Andre the Giant at Summerslam 88
vs. Stan Hansen
vs. Great Muta




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