Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat

Title History

NWA United States title (October 22, 1977);
NWA Tag Team titles w/Paul Jones defeating Masked Superstar & Ken Patera (April 23, 1978);
NWA United States title (December 18, 1978);
NWA Tag Team titles w/Jay Youngblood defeating Baron von Raschke & Paul Jones (October 22, 1979);
NWA Tag Team titles w/Jay Youngblood defeating Ray Stevens & Greg Valentine (May 10, 1980);
NWA Tag Team titles w/Jay Youngblood defeating Sgt. Slaughter & Don Kernodle (March 12, 1983);
NWA Tag Team titles w/Jay Youngblood defeating The Brisco Brothers (October 3, 1983);
NWA Tag Team titles w/Jay Youngblood defeating The Brisco Brothers (November 24, 1983 - Starcade);
NWA United States title defeating Dick Slater (April 21, 1984);
WWF Intercontinental title defeating Randy "Macho Man" Savage (March 29, 1987 - Wrestlemania III);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Ric Flair (February 20, 1989);
NWA/WCW Tag Team titles w/Dustin Rhodes defeating Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko (November 19, 1991 - CotC);
NWA/WCW Television title defeating Steve Austin (September 2, 1992 - Clash of the Champions);
NWA/WCW Tag Team titles w/Shane Douglas defeating Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes (November 18, 1992 - CotC);
WCW Television title defeating Paul Orndorff (August 18, 1993);
WCW United States title defeating Steve Austin (August 24, 1994 - Clash of the Champions);


1977 PWI Rookie of the Year;
1978 PWI Tag Team of the Year (w/Paul Jones);
1987 PWI Match of the Year (vs Randy Savage);
1989 PWI Match of the Year (vs Ric Flair);
1995 PWI Editors’ Award;
1996 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Inductee;

Career Highlights:

NWA: Mid-Atlantic

1976: Richard Blood began his career in the NWA: Mid Atlantic region of the country..
Richard Blood was originally billed as "Sam Steamboat Jr." due to his resemblence to wrestler Sam Steamboat..
Richard Blood is legitimately part-Japanese, but they were saying that he was from Honolulu, Hawaii..
June 25, 1977: Ricky Steamboat scored an upset win over Rookie Of The Year and Mid Atlantic TV Champion Ric Flair..
~~~And so began one of the greatest fueds in the history and would last over a decade...
August 22, 1977: Rick Steamboat & Paul Jones defeated Ric Flair & Greg Valentine for the Mid Atlantic Tag Team titles..
October 15, 1977: Baron von Raschke defeated Rick Steamboat for the NWA Mid Atlantic TV title after a four month reign..
November 1, 1977: Rick Steamboat defeated his nemesis Ric Flair for the prestigious United States Heavyweight title..
~~~Blackjack Mulligan eventually defeated Steamboat for the US title..
April 23, 1978: Rick Steamboat & Paul Jones won the NWA World Tag Team titles winning a 10-team tournament..
~~~March 1978: Steamboat/Jones was forced to vacate the Mid Atlantic Tag titles due to winning the World Tag titles..
Paul Jones eventually turned violently on Steamboat, and the two former partners engaged in a series of grudge matches..
December 18, 1978: Ricky Steamboat defeated Ric Flair for the United States Heavyweight title..
April 1, 1979: Ric Flair defeated Ricky Steamboat to regain the United States Heavyweight title..
October 23, 1979: Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood teamed to win the NWA World Tag Team titles..
1980: Ricky Steamboat defeated Hussein Arab for the NWA Mid Atlantic Heavyweight title..
April 16, 1981: Ivan Koloff defeated Ricky Steamboat for the NWA Mid-Atlantic Heavyweight title..
Ricky Steamboat & Dino Bravo teamed up to win the NWA Mid Atlantic Tag Team titles..
The Sheepherders defeated Ricky Steamboat & Dino Bravo for the NWA Mid Atlantic Tag Team titles..
1981: Ricky Steamboat defeated Ivan Koloff to regain his NWA Mid Atlantic Heavyweight title.
August 22, 1982: Rick Steamboat & Jay Youngblood won the Mid Atlantic Tag Team titles in Toronto..
March 12, 1983: Rick Steamboat & Jay Youngblood defeated Sgt. Slaughter & Don Kernodle for the NWA World Tag Team titles..
December 25, 1983: Ricky Steamboat announced that he was going to retire from the sport of wrestling, vacating the World Tag titles..

World Wrestling Federation

1985: Ricky Steamboat resurfaced in the WWF billed as Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat..
March 31, 1985 - WrestleMania: Ricky Steamboat defeated Matt Bourne..
May 10, 1985 - SNME: Ricky Steamboat & Mike Rotundo & Barry Windham defeated George Steele & Nikolai Volkoff & Iron Sheik..
Ricky Steamboat and Jimmy Snuka occasionally teamed as the South Pacific Connection..
October 31, 1985 - SNMW: Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat defeated Mr. Fuji..
November 7, 1985 - Wrestling Classic: Ricky Steamboat defeated Davey Boy Smith to advance into the 2nd round of the tournament..
~~~Second Round: Randy Savage defeated Ricky Steamboat after hitting him with a foreign object..
Ricky Steamboat had violent, intense feuds with fellow Hawaiian "Magnificent" Don Muraco..
December 19, 1985 - SNME: Ricky Steamboat & Junk Yard Dog defeated "Magnificent" Don Muraco & Mr. Fuji..
April 7, 1986 - WrestleMania II: Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat defeated Hercules Hernandez..
May 1, 1986 - SNME: Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat and Jake "The Snake" Roberts wrestled to a no contest..
~~~Jake Roberts attacked Ricky Steamboat before the match and executing the DDT on the concrete floor..
Ricky Steamboat was out of action for several months selling the head injury sustained by the assault..
August 28, 1986 - The Big Event: Ricky Steamboat defeated Jake Roberts in a ‘Snake Pit’ match..
August 29, 1986 - Sam Muschnick Tournament: Ricky Steamboat defeated Jim Brunzell in the 1st Round..
~~~Steamboat beat Billy Jack Haynes(2nd) | Steamboat beat Hercules (3rd) | Harley Race beat Steamboat (Finals)..
September 13, 1986 - SNME: Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat defeated Jake "The Snake" Roberts..
Ricky Steamboat was put out of action when Randy Savage attacked him and crushed his larynx with the ring bell!
December 14, 1986 - SNME: Ricky Steamboat returned when he showed up at ringside during a Randy Savage match..
February 21, 1987 - SNME: Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat defeated The Iron Sheik..
March 29, 1987 - Wrestlemania III: Ricky Steamboat pinned Randy Savage to win the Intercontinental title in a classic match..
~~~This match won PWI Match of the Year, and is highly regarded as one of the greatest matches in wrestling history..
April 28, 1987 - SNME: Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat defeated Hercules Hernandez by Disqualification..
June 2, 1987 - TV Taping: Honky Tonk Man defeated Ricky Steamboat for the WWF Intercontinental title..
November 16, 1987 - Legend’s Battle Royal: Ted DiBiase defeated Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat..
November 26, 1987 - Survivor Series: Randy Savage's Team defeated Honky Tonk Man's Team in a Survivor Series match..
~~~Savage's Team = Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts, Hacksaw Jim Duggan & Brutus Beefcake..
~~~Honky's Team = Honky Tonk Man, King Harley Race, Hercules, Outlaw Ron Bass & Danny Davis..
~~~~~~Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat and Jake Roberts were the surviving members of their team..
January 24, 1988 – Royal Rumble: Ricky Steamboat defeats Rick Rude by DQ
March 28, 1988 – WrestleMania IV: Greg Valentine defeats Ricky Steamboat in the 1st Round of the WWF Title Tournament
Shortly after, Ricky Steamboat dissappeared from the World Wrestling Federation to spend more time with his family..

National Wrestling Alliance

Early 1989: Ricky Steamboat resurfaced in the NWA as Eddie Gilbert's mystery partner in a match against Ric Flair & Barry Windham..
February 15, 1989 - Clash of the Champions V: Ricky Steamboat defeated Bob Bradley..
February 20, 1989 - Chi-Town Rumble: Ricky Steamboat defeated Ric Flair to win the NWA World title!
April 2, 1989 - Clash VI: Ricky Steamboat defeated Ric Flair in a Three Falls match to retain the NWA World title!
May 7, 1989 - WrestleWar: Ric Flair defeated Ricky Steamboat to recapture the NWA World title!
June 14, 1989 - Clash of the Champions VII: Ricky Steamboat defeated Terry Funk by Disqualification..
July 23, 1989 - Great American Bash: Lex Luger defeated Ricky Steamboat..
Ricky Steamboat takes another hiatus from wrestling, before returning to the World Wrestling Federation..

World Wrestling Federation

March 1991: Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat returned to the WWF as a mid-card wrestler, with an exagerated "Dragon" gimmick..
August 26, 1991 - Summerslam: Ricky Steamboat & Texas Tornado & British Bulldog beat Power & Glory & The Warlord..
September 7, 1991 - King of the Ring: Ricky Steamboat wrestled Ted DiBiase to a 15 minute draw..
Not long after, Ricky Steamboat left the WWF for good, deciding to return to WCW..

World Championship Wrestling - Return to WCW

November 19, 1991 - Clash XVII: Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat beat Arn Anderson & Larry Zbysko to win the Tag Team titles..
December 29, 1991 - Starrcade: Ricky Steamboat & Todd Champion defeated Buddy Lee Parker & Cactus Jack in a Lethal Lottery..
~~~Ricky Steamboat competed in the Two Ring BattleBowl Battle Royal main event..
January 21, 1992 - Clash XVIII: Ricky Steamboat & Sting defeated Dangerous Alliance (Steve Austin & Rick Rude)..
February 29, 1992 - SuperBrawl: Rick Rude defeated Ricky Steamboat to retain the United States title..
May 17, 1992 - WrestleWar: Sting's Team defeated The Dangerous Alliance in a WAR GAMES CAGE MATCH..
~~~Sting's Team = Sting & Nikita Koloff & Ricky Steamboat & Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes..
~~~The Dangerous Alliance = Rick Rude & Arn Anderson & Larry Zbysko & Bobby Eaton & Steve Austin..
June 16, 1992 - Clash XIX: Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff defeated Dean & Joe Malenko..
June 20, 1992 - Beach Blast: Ricky Steamboat defeated Rick Rude in an Iron Man match..
July 12, 1992 - Great American Bash: Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff defeated Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman..
~~~2nd Round Tag Team Tournament: Steve Williams & Terry Gordy beat Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff..
September 2, 1992 - Clash XX: Ricky Steamboat defeated "Stunning" Steve Austin to win the Television title..
September 29, 1992: Scott Steiner defeated Ricky Steamboat to win the Television title..
October 25, 1992 - Helloween Havoc: Ricky Steamboat defeated Flyin' Brian Pillman..

World Championship Wrestling - Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas

Ricky Steamboat formed a tag team with a young Shane Douglas..
November 18, 1992 - Clash XXI: Steamboat & Douglas beat Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham to win the Tag Team titles..
January 13, 1993 - Clash XXII: Steamboat & Douglas defeated The Hollywood Blondes (Austin & Pillman) by DQ to retain..
March 2, 1993: The Hollywood Blondes (Austin & Pillman) defeated Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas for the Tag titles..
May 23, 1993 - Slamboree: Brian Pillman & Steve Austin defeated Ricky Steamboat & Tom Zenk in a Steel Cage match..

World Championship Wrestling - Ricky Steamboat

August 18, 1993 - Clash XXIV: Ricky Steamboat defeated Paul Orndorff to win his 2nd Television title..
September 19, 1993 - Fall Brawl: Steven Regal defeated Ricky Steamboat to win the Television title..
October 24, 1993 - Helloween Havoc: Paul Orndorff defeated Ricky Steamboat by Count Out..
November 20, 1993 - BattleBowl: Paul Orndroff & The Shockmaster defeated Ricky Steamboat & Steven Regal (Lethal Lottery)..
December 27, 1993 - Starrcade: Ricky Steamboat vs Lord Steven Regal ended in a Draw..
April 16, 1994 - Spring Stampede: Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair ended in a NO CONTEST..
July 17, 1994 - Bash at the Beach: Steve Austin defeated Ricky Steamboat..
August 18, 1994 - Clash XXVIII: Ricky Steamboat defeated Steve Austin to win the United States title..
September 18, 1994 - Fall Brawl: Ricky Steamboat was forced to forfiet the U.S. title to Steve Austin due to a severe back injury..
~~~The injury was bad enough to force him to again retire from wrestling, this time for good..

Keeping Busy

Ricky Steamboat is retired in Charlotte, North Carolina and currently owns and runs a gym..

NWA: Total Nonstop Action

2002: Ricky Steamboat signed on to make an appearance at the first NWA-TNA pay per view in Huntsville, Alabama..
June 19, 2002 - NWA: Total Nonstop Action Debut: Joins the Jarrett Upstart promotion as a referee and interviewer..
July 31, 2002 - NWA: Total Non-Stop Action: Steamboat returns to TNA as on-air commissioner..
January 24, 2003 - Live Action Wrestling: Jeff Jarrett defeats B.G. James to retain with Ricky Steamboat as the referee..

Ring of Honor

March 13, 2004 - ROH: AJ Styles defeated C.M. Punk (guest referee Ricky Steamboat) to retain the Pure Wrestling title!
April 23, 2004 - ROH: Ricky Steamboat referees a match between C.M. Punk vs American Dragon..
May 22, 2004 - ROH: Ricky Steamboat continues his feud with C.M. Punk, but got laid out by the Second City Saints..
July 17, 2004 - ROH: Ricky Steamboat and C.M. Punk have their "Final Confrontation" with a brief brawl..
~~~Ricky Steamboat verbally confronted C.M. Punk and challenged him to "Become the Man he knows he can be"..
~~~Generation Next hit the ring and attacked Ricky Steamboat and C.M. Punk valiantly came to Steamboat's rescue!
July 24, 2004 - ROH: The Second City Saints (CM Punk & Ace Steel) beat Dan Maff & BJ Whitmer in a "Chicago Street Fight"..
~~~This "Weapons of Destruction" match included tables, ladders, chairs, barbed wire, and this resulted in LOTS of blood..
~~~After the match, Generation Next came out and attacked the bloody Second City Saints until Ricky Steamboat made the save!
~~~CM Punk cut a promo praising Ricky Steamboat's love of the business, and being an inspiration..
September 18, 2004--Championship Wrestling: Tony Givens & Robbie Cassidy b Super Destroyer & Josh Cody w/ref Steamboat..
October 2, 2004 - ROH: Generation Next defeated Team Steamboat (CM Punk & Ace Steel & John Walters & Jimmy Jacobs)..
October 15, 2004 - ROH: Mick Foley and Ricky Steamboat got into a verbal confrontration over Hardcore vs Traditional style..
~~~Later that night, Team Steamboat (CM Punk & Ace Steel & Jimmy Jacobs) beat Generation Next (Shelley/Aries/Evans)..
October 16, 2004 - ROH: Mick Foley and Ricky Steamboat cut promos on eachother, continuing to build up their confrontation..
~~~This led to: Team Steamboat (Nigel McGuinness & Chad Collyer) defeated Team Foley (Dan Maff & BJ Whitmer)..

World Wrestling Entertainment

November 22, 2004 - RAW: Ricky Steamboat is seen backstage, and is said to be in line for a position as a WWE Agent..
Late November 2004: Ricky Steamboat worked as a Road Agent on a trial basis and is expected to be brought on full time..
December 26, 2004 - ROH: Ricky Steamboat & Mick Foley had their FINAL CONTRONTATION as Steamboat was WWE-bound..
March 19, 2005--Live Event (RAW crew): The Coach interviewed Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat in the ring and of course got beat up!

Hmmm... this is an interesting case.

If we're going by workrate... (Votes 500 times) This man could drag a good match out of almost anyone, although he had a little problem over using his deep arm drags and arm bar spots. He was putting on great matches for nearly 2 decades, even up to his untimely retirement.

However, he was only on top of the cards for a short amount of time, which was his NWA Run feuding with Ric Flair over the World Title. He's a very believable threat, but his place seemed more fit for the upper-card singles titles, like the NWA/WCW US Title, or WWF IC Title.

His promo skills.... he was too nice of a guy, but he could bring the intensity when needed.

I would say yes, mainly for his awesome wrestling ability and because he was putting on entertianing performances even as the fucking Dragon in 1991 WWF. (that last part is a joke... but he did work the best he could considering the low caliber opponents)

He was never a National draw but he was a proven draw in the Mid-Atlantic territory. Held the NWA World Title when it still meant something so that's a big plus for the guy.

At this point, I'll just vote yes, and wait to comment. I'm probably more biased towards Steamboat than anyone else here.

Actually he was at the top of the Mid-Atlantic mountain for quite awhile before heading to the WWF.

Hmm.... 5-0 as of now. If Steamboat manages another "Perfect"-like tally, I'm going to have to pick someone really controversial next week.

I voted for him because he had some of the greatest matches I've ever seen and he was such an effective babyface wrestler. Was there a single wrestling fan who disliked this guy?

I was talking along the lines of a national promotion like WWF or NWA when it became less of a certain territory, which was the case from 1984-1994 :).

Someone will spoil it with a no vote.

Well, I would put him in for sure.

He's a former NWA champion when the belt was worth a shit.

He had one of the most legendary feud's of all time with Flair.

He was in the greatest match at the biggest Wrestlemania of all time.

Definately was a proven draw in Mid-Atlantic

One of the greatest in ring workers in US history as well.

I'd say this stuff plus his work in Japan against Tsuruta, Flair, etc would help as well.

To this point our votes have been fair, and everyone has had a justified reason in voting the way they did. I really hope it doesn't become reactionary like that, though I wouldn't expect Steamboat to get a perfect vote.

Like someone mentioned, he was never really a high-caliber draw outside of Mid-Atlantic, but many people consider his match with Savage the greatest WWF match ever and his series with Flair the greatest matches of all time period. While I don't agree with either statment, they are both still in my top three and based on those merits alone, he's in for me.

He deserved a bigger push in WWF and WCW, but the NWA title isn't shabby.

Now where's BiG to give his opinion?

Didn't his title reign fail financially? That's what I've always heard.

Steamboat wrestled The Rock at 'Mania 17? ;-)

Add Misawa to that list. His NWA title defense against Tiger Mask II is a nifty one.

B)

I voted yes on Steamboat. A great wrestler for a long time. Right until the end, actually. His Clash 28 match with Austin is the best Austin singles match I've seen before 1996.

Fuck... I had $40 bet on BiG voting "no". Son of a bitch bastard, I'll get youi for this! :angry:

I've always heard this, but I don't really know how much of that could be attributed to Steamboat. It probably had to do more with the company being run by fucktards at that point (aka Crockett's dipshit spending).

From what I've read (and that's about ten different accounts) is that the angle leading into his title reign was picking up steam nicely, despite the state of the company. After he won the belt, the crowds kind of went flat. They really enjoyed the chase, but there was just nowhere to go after he won. As far as I know, noone would directly attribute Steamboat's title reign to poor sales. It seems that it was more of not getting the reaction they wanted so they took the belt off him.

I honestly don't see how Steamer wouldn't be a first ballot in any HOF discussion. Forget promo skills, he was quiet possibly the greatest babyface ever and one of the five greatest workers ever. Hands down yes.

Top 5? Who else is in your Top 5? ...And a list is OK, no explanation for each is needed.

If I see the initials "SM" in it I will go on a 3 hour rant.

A 3 hour rant.

Well aside, from "SM" being a top 5 candidate... ;)

Really depends on your perspective of what is a great worker, but to me, Steamer falls into pretty much all the normal categories. I wasn't really thinking of a specific "top 5" list, but I'd consider my personal top 5 workers to be Flair, Steamboat, Bret, Michaels (yeah, yeah)...and maybe Kobashi as he is, to me, the epitome of the modern-day Puro workhorse and has been doing so far longer than say, Michaels, has been consistently. That's hardly a set in stone list as you can always argue about 50 workers or so as the top 5 workers ever from Thesz to Tiger Mask to Dynamite to Funk to Race and so on and so on but as far as my generation goes and what I've seen on a consistent basis over the past 20 years...yeah, sure...those would be my 5.

Of course tomorrow I'll change my mind and probably throw Benoit in there too, but there ya go...

Can you define "greatest babyface ever" for me? Surely Hogan/Austin/Rock, who drew far, far more money, are better babyfaces?

I look forward to this, mostly so I can shoot it down. ;-)

Steamboat only ever worked as a face, never as a heel; and unlike the others, was pretty much THE good guy that the casual fan always knew would be on their side for his entire career. Plus, all of his in-ring mannerisms from bumping to especially selling are even today revered as pretty much the cream of the crop for a babyface. Hogan/Austin/Rock certainly all made far more $, but if you're talking from just your normal everyday fan, from the kids to the grandparents, Ricky Steamboat was everything the ultimate babyface should have been from the very start to the very end. I think the best word to sum him up would be PURE. I can see how if you didn't grow up during Steamboat's prime how it may be tough to translate just how believable he was as a face but I'd like to think pretty much anyone that followed wrestling in general during the '80s can relate to what I'm trying to convey here. Personally, I never look at a wrestler's greatness based upon the $ made or brought in, although many many do but that's like saying Bradshaw is a better heel than Eddie Gilbert since he's made more $ at it.

Being a face his entire career doesn't mean he was a better face than Hogan/Austin/Rock. It could just mean he wasn't versatile enough to play a heel. ;) Hogan/Austin/Rock were.

Hogan's in-ring mannerisms for working a crowd as a face were astounding and made millions of people pay to see him.

If he was truly everything a babyface should be it would've translated into money drawn. It didn't. At least certainly not close to Hogan/Austin/Rock.

If you ignore that you're ignoring the #1 goal of pro wrestling.

I ask you, what is playing babyface? It's making people like you. If you're good enough at it you'll make them pay to see you.

Ratings have tanked under Bradshaw's reign, so that's not a good analogy.

As far as traditional face/heel roles go, Austin and Rock never played one. Sure they got over with the fans, but it was after the business had changed to the point that there were no clear face/heel roles anymore. I could see your point with Hogan, and he probably was more versatile because he also made a great heel.

This is a completely unfair comparison. By that scale, every one of the greatest wrestlers ever came during the mid-late 90's. By far more money was drawn then than any other time. This just isn't true. This isn't true. Steamboat was out of wrestling by the boom of the 90's, so he couldn't have drawn the money that those guys drew. It's just two different eras. Steamboat was a draw on the territory scene, evidenced by his being an upper-level guy his entire career there.

No one was a bigger face than Hogan. Crowds went nuts for him putting his fucking hand to his ear. Steamboat was just a nice guy who got sympathy when he got his ass kicked... and when he was pissed off.

The question was obviously not who was a "bigger" face, but who was a "better" face. For my tastes, I'd take Steamboat.

Steamboat really didn't DO anything as a face though. He was a family man who was usually out for revenge. That's kinda boring to me. (Cheered for Flair in 1989)

I have no clue what you are talking about. You mean he didn't cup his hand to his ear?

...Har Har. If Steamboat was a better babyface than everyone else, why was the crowd split for his feud with Ric Flair in 1989? He couldn't have been that good, otherwise he would've actually drawn as champion.

That's like saying if Hogan was the best face, why were fans booing him in WCW before his infamous heel turn?

You're taking one moment out of a 15 year career. You could do that with anyone. Both were good faces. Steamboat was more old-school style face, while Hogan was more cartoony type face. Just a matter of which you prefer.

Edit: I also just realized the irony in your statement. If Steamboat wasn't a good face because you cheered Flair, aren't you also saying Flair was a bad heel?

This is one of the dumbest statements EVER. So Eddie sucks because he didn't draw as champion? How about Benoit? How about every face ever besides Hogan/Rock/Austin/Andre/Bruno? Those were the top draws and if you take them out of the equation......then everyone sucks. In your way of thinking.

Flair is too likeable unless he's beating the shit out of the #1 babyface every couple of weeks. Everyone loved to hate him.

NWA fans at that time were probably comparable to your current day smark crowd. You should ignore their crowd reactions. Especially for Flair since he was pretty respected by the fanbase by then.

Keep in mind, Flair had been around for 15 years by '89, mostly hanging in the same territory. But I can tell you Scrooge, there were times when fans wanted to literally kill Flair. He was a great heel.

Anyone mind if I just induct Steamboat today since I'm not going be online at all tomorrow?

Go ahead... make my Hall of Fame.

I thought Saturday was induction day...

I don't guess it matters.

Unless a bunch of people get on the board and vote "no"...it wouldn't matter anyhow.

Saturday is induction day, but I'm not going to be able to go online tomorrow or Saturday. Okay, I'll wait until midnight tonight :)

I don't know where you got this idea. What's not "traditional" about 1996/2001 psychotic heel Austin? What's not "traditional" about 1998 cocky asshole heel Rock? He was no different than any other cocky asshole heel that came before him.

If 2000-2001 Rock wasn't a "clear" face I don't know what is.

We're not discussing "greatest wrestlers" and drawing isn't relevant to being a great wrestler. We're discussing who played the greatest babyface ever, which *is* related to drawing money.

Being a bigger face and a better face have no relation? Playing a great face is about making fans care. Hogan made more fans care. Far more.

This isn't a matter of who you prefer. The statement was made - "Steamboat is the best face EVER" - millions of fans drawn and money made say otherwise. And Steamboat did his share of cartoony, theatrical selling, too.


To be honest I think most of you want to give Steamboat the title because he was a great wrestler and Hogan wasn't.