Sting

Title History

WCW World title (7);
WCW Tag Team title (2);
WCW United States title (2);

Career Highlights

In The Beginning:

Sting started wrestling in California teaming with Jim Helwig (aka The Ultimate Warrior) known as Power Team 2000..
Steve Borden, Jim Hellwig, Mark Miller, and Garland Donoho made up Power Team USA until it dispanded in 1986..
Steve Borden & Jim Hellwig later turned heel as the Blade Runners and they terrorized Mid-Southern, Mid-South & the UWF..
When Helwig left the UWF for World Class, Sting became a face, and teamed with Rick Stiener to win the UWF Tag Titles..

National Wrestling Alliance:

Sting moved to the National Wrestling Alliance..
1988 - Clash of the Champions: Sting went one-on-one with Ric Flair to a 45 minute time limit draw..
Sting began a fued with The Great Muta over the NWA Television Title..
Sting & Flair joined forces against Paul Jones, Great Muta, Terry Funk & Buzz Sawyer..
This led to Sting joining the Four Horsemen..
Sting's star began to rise, and soon Sting wanted a shot at Ric Flair's World Title..
The Four Horsemen kicked Sting out for not respecting their World Champion leader..
Sting injured his knee trying to climb into a cage, and was out for a long time afterward.

National Wrestling Alliance II:

When Sting returned, he was focused on taking on the IV Horsemen..
Sting ended up defeating Ric Flair to win the NWA World Heavyweight Title..
Sting went on to fued with Lex Luger over the World Heavyweight title..

World Championship Wrestling:

1994: Sting was knocked down to the #2 face when Hulk Hogan joined World Championship Wrestling..
Sting naturally joined forces with Hulk Hogan (probably because Hogan didn't wanna face him) to battle the Dungeon of Doom..
Sting defeated Meng in the finals of a tournament to win the WCW United States Title..
Ric Flair was in a fued with Arn Anderson & Brian Pillman, and needed a tag partner, so he began campaigning to win Sting's trust back..
~~~Sting eventually agreed, but when the night came, Flair was attacked minutes before the event, taking him out of the match!
~~~Sting proceeded to defend Flair's honor, taking on Anderson & Pillman alone..
~~~Flair limped out during the match, all bandaged up, but instead of helping Sting, he turned on him!!!!!!
~~~Flair joined Anderson & Pillman in the subsequent reformation of the Four Horsemen!
~~~This light a fire unter Sting..
Nitro: Sting attacked Ric Flair and put the scorpion deathlock on him, refusing to release the hold..
~~~Lex Luger came out and talked Sting into letting Flair go..
Sting wrestled Hulk Hogan, and put him in the Scorpion Deathlock only to be broken up by Dungeon of Doom interference..

World Championship Wrestling - new World order:

The Outsiders (Scott Hall & Kevin Nash) began invading WCW, and Sting was the first to step up and confront them..
Bash at the Beach 1996: Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/Mystery Man defeated Sting/Randy Savage/Lex Luger when Hulk Hogan turned heel!
~~~Nash & Hall started the match alone, and soon injured Lex Luger, taking him out of the match and evening the odds..
~~~Sting & Savage were getting beaten when out of nowhere, Hulk Hogan came running down to help out..
~~~In a move that shocked the world, Hogan leg dropped Randy Savage, revealing HIMSELF as the mystery partner!!
Sting led the charge against the new World order.. who eventually brought out their own version of Sting called the 'nWo Sting'..
~~~WCW thought that it was the REAL Sting, and this hurt Sting's feelings causing him to turn his back on WCW..

World Championship Wrestling - The "Crow" Gimmck:

Sting started showing up as the Black and White Sting, appearing mysteriously in the rafters at WCW events..
After close to a year of dropping from rafters, and coming out of the crowd..
~~~Sting revealed his true colors when he helped WCW's team fend off the NWO after they tried to attack Lex Luger..
Starrcade 1997: Sting finally got his shot at Hulk Hogan and winning the WCW World Title..
After some contraversy, Sting defeated Hulk Hogan AGAIN at Souled Out to make the title change official..
Uncensored 1998: Sting defeated Scott Hall to retain the World Heavyweight title..
Spring Stampede 1998: Randy Savage defeated Sting for the World Heavyweight title..
Slamboree 1998: Sting & The Giant defeated the Outsiders to win the WCW Tag Team titles..

World Championship Wrestling - Red & Black Attack:

When the nWo splits, Sting joins the nWo Wolfpac with Nash, Konnan, Savage & Lex Luger..
Sting & The Giant had a rift and battled at the Great American Bash 1998 for the championship..
Great American Bash 1998: Sting defeated The Giant to claim the WCW Tag Team titles and chose Kevin Nash as his new Partner..
Halloween Havoc 1998: Bret Hart defeated Sting by knockout to retain the United States title..
Sting takes time off to heal a few injuries..

World Championship Wrestling - Sting Heel?:

April 26, 1999 - Nitro: Sting pinned DDP to win the WCW World Title-But later in the night, lost it back to DDP in a four-way match..
After a short fued with Rick Steiner, Sting turned his attention to long time nemisis, Ric Flair..
Fall Brawl 1999: Sting defeated Hulk Hogan to win the WCW World Title turning heel in the process!
Halloween Havoc 1999: Bill Goldberg defeated Sting to capture the World Title..
Sting's heel run was considered very unsuccessful..

World Championship Wrestling - Stinger:

Starrcade 1999: Sting defeated Lex Luger..
Sting had an intense fued with Vampiro, which included a House of Pain match, an Inferno match amung others..
November 2000: Sting took some time off from WCW Television..

World Championship Wrestling - WCW Farewell:

March 26, 2001: Sting returned and wrestled his last match against Ric Flair in the main event of the final Nitro broadcast on TNT..
~~~Sting defeated Ric Flair with the Scorpion Deathlock in a very nostalgic match..
Sting sits out his WCW/Time Warner/AOL contract..
March 2002 - Sting's WCW/Time Warner/AOL contract expires.. but Sting is not expected to return to wrestling..
June 2002: Rumors circulate that Sting has signed a deal with WWE to return to the wrestling ring..
~~~~However, with the increased volume of 'smut' and 'violence', it is expected to be just a 'rumor'..

World Wrestling All-stars:

November 28, 2002 - WWA European Tour: Sting comes out of retirement to join the WWA European Tour..
December 6, 2002 - WWA European Tour: Lex Luger defeats Sting for the VACANT WWA World Heavyweight title..
December 7, 2002 - WWA European Tour: Lex Luger & Sting defeat Jeff Jarrett & Buff Bagwell..
December 13, 2002 - WWA European Tour: Sting beats Lex Luger to win the WWA World title on the last show of the tour..
April 14, 2003: Sting informed WWA promoter Andrew McManus that the May Australian tour will be his last for the promotion..
May 5, 2003: Sting will be paid $20,000 per show on this month's WWA tour - Sting also claims to have signed with WWE..
May 21, 2003 - WWA: Sting defeated Rick Stiener & Shane Douglas in a 3way to retain the WWA World title..
May 23, 2003 - WWA: Sting defeated Disco Inferno to retain the WWA Heavyweight title..
May 25, 2003 - WWA PPV: Jeff Jarrett defeated Sting to unify the NWA World & WWA Heavyweight titles!

NWA: Total Nonstop Action:

June 18, 2003 - NWA^TNA ANNIVERSARY: Jeff Jarrett & Sting defeated AJ Styles & Syxx-Pac..
July 2, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting gave a sitdown interview with Mike Tenay talking about Jerry Jarrett giving him his first break..
July 9, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting (Part 2) gives his feelings on Flair, Hart, Warrior, McMahon, Hogan and the Internet..
July 16, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting (Part 3) talks about the "roller coaster ride" which was World Championship Wrestling..
July 23, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting (Part 4) talks about Christianity and the Good & Bad that comes with Wrestling..
November 5, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting defeated Jeff Jarrett by DQ in an NWA World Heavyweight title match..
November 12, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting & AJ Styles w/Jimmy Hart defeated Lex Luger & Jeff Jarrett w/Don Callis..
December 17, 2003 - NWA^TNA: Sting defeated NWA World Champion Jeff Jarrett in a "non title" match!
March 24, 2004 - NWA^TNA: Sting, who was in Nashville to film a movie about his life, did an interview with Mike Tenay in the ring..
July 21, 2004--Hawaiian Championship Wrestling: Sting & The Great Muta beat Diamond Dallas Page & Satoshi Kojima..
January 22, 2005--Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling (In Korea): Sting defeated Billy Gunn..
Steve Borden has the name 'Sting' trademarked, unlike Gordon Matthew Sumner, the singer, that calls himself 'Sting'

I vote no. Maybe I'm just being elitist, but he doesn't seem like HOF material to me.

I'm with WMD on this. I'm gonna have to say no......

Overness - 10
In-ring ability - 7 (he loses some points for the late 90's)
Promos - 8 (I always enjoyed them)
Position on card - 8 (even when he wasn't main eventing, he was treated with a certain level or respect).
Misc. - 10 (great all-rounder)

So was I too generous or is that about right?

This shows right here though why I was against the rating system. We will become too obsessed with arguing points as opposed to talking about the categories themselves.....

Well, to start with (and I'm dying to get into a points arguement...), He wasn't nearly as over as Hogan, Rock, Austin, or even Flair, so calling him a 10 might be a stretch. But without using points, his only great matches were with Flair, who had great matches with everyone.

Well, I guess I'll start with why I nominated Sting.

First, he was a requested nominee and I agreed. Secondly, he never worked for the WWF/E and still became a household name, courtesy of WCW. Thirdly, Sting was the ultimate WCW superstar and I believe could have been more valuable to WCW in those dying days had he just been utilized properly.

Overness: He was WCW's top star for many years and was one of the few guys that crowds would still pop for in the dying days of WCW.

Ring work: He was a natural in the ring during his prime and he still delivers the goods. Sting was a great hand on his few TNA appearances and I actually ordered every PPV he wrestled on just because I wanted to see him.

Promo ability: He used "whoo" in a way different from Ric Flair. His energy and enthusiasm made me excited about his matches. He was a flawless good guy (aside from some booking stupidity in the late 90's).

Position on card: He's a multiple time WCW World Champion and he held the belt during a time when it still had prestige. Even when he wasn't main eventing he was still treated with a level of respect. He headlined the final WCW card in 2001.

Misc: When you think of WCW, you think of Sting. He was one of the biggest stars in the 1990's and I think it's a shame he doesn't get more credit for that.

I'll admit, that's probably my partial bias -_- When I was a mark, I liked him better than Hogan.

Well, I would certainly argue the fact of Sting being a household name. My dad would know why Steve Austin, The Rock, or Hogan are......but not Sting. Also, I don't know if Sting just floating along as the company died was all the companies fault either. I know Sting stated that he wasn't the most motivated wrestler of all time during that period.......

Well, I would agree with most of this statement. Although he owes every bit of his star power to Flair who made him what he was. Unfortunately, WCW changing his character (the crow Sting that is....) and mishandling his feud with Hogan almost totally ruined him as well. But he was definately over more than probably anyone else off the top of my head at the end though.....

THIS would be the category that I disagree strongly with. Here's a little question for you. How many ***+ matches has Sting had with wrestlers who for the most part weren't better than him in the ring? Not many. See everything that Sting did that was good.....was usually because he was carried too it, especially early in his career. So I don't know that he is anything more than an average worker otherwise though.

For the most part I found his promos vanilla, but he did cut really good ones from time to time. He had a bit of the cheese factor in the early 90's but I would definately say he was an awesome face.

Well, he usually was on the top of the card....except for the beginning of his career.

The reason why it doesn't is simply because they weren't making any money. At WCW's most lucrative point.....Hogan and the nWo were the main attraction.

Ah, the categories without points seem to be a pretty good guideline. So here we go,

I won't argue much with this, but he never reached the level of Hogan, Rock, or even Goldberg.

As I said before, his only great matches were with Flair, who had great matches with everyone. It's not that he was horrible, just not great.

I HATED his promos. "Riddle me this, riddle me that, who is the man with the big, black bat."???? Are you serious?

No problems here. He was always in a prominent position on the card.

I like Sting. I think he had potential, but be it booking or his own fault, I don't think he ever fully reached it.

Sting was WCW. Without him, where do you go from there? Ask anyone who is a casual fan and they will probably associate WCW with 2 people: Ric Flair and Sting, and Flair is already in I bet.

- Sting was never the greatest wrestler, but he was a very capable worker in his prime to help "Carry" lesser talented wrestlers.

- He was quite over, which apparently no one seems to notice because he had Lex Luger Syndrom for World Title reigns.

- He sold plenty of merchandise, and was part of the biggest WCW angle of all time... and it got fucked up.

- His promo skills were never great, but they weren't bad either, and if we're going to compare him to other WCW main eventers, none of them were that hot on the mic'.

Or the casual fan associates WCW with "out of business" if they even remember it existing.

Please, I beg of you. Name a wrestler that wasn't better than Sting that he "carried" to anything over ***.

Ummm......we all said he was over.

He also sat out a whole year from wrestling at the time as well.......

Well his promo skills WEREN'T great.....

Compare him to what main eventers in WCW? Foley, Hogan, Flair? I know that there were a lot others worse than Sting.....but still, his promos were simple 1980's cheese.....in the 90's.

I didn't say Sting was God with a magic broomstick, but name 1 match from 1988-1996 that was crap and because it was Stings fault... except any match with John Tena, because he was barely able to have good matches with the most talented wrestlers.

Edit: HE CARRIED MENG TO A GOOD MATCH! MENG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about anything he did in 95?

He wrestled mainly the Dungeon of Doom (blech) and Big Bubba in 1995... OK, you make a good point, but I can probably name 20 people who sucked more...

Off the top of my head...
Zodiac
Shark
Kevin Sullivan
Meng
Kamala
The Giant
Loch Ness
Hulk Hogan (I hate to say it, but 1995 wasn't too good of a year for Hulkamania)
Jim Duggan
Craig Pittman
Big Bubba (already mentioned)
Stevie Ray
Bunkhouse Buck
Dick Slater
Marcus Bagwell
The Nasty Boys

1995 really wasn't the best year for WCW's talent pool. They might've had big names, but the wrestling was dog shit when it wasn't a Cruiserweight match or people with talent like the Horsemen.

Here's my point though......Bret Hart basically did the same thing in 94/95 and put on good/great matches anyway. I'm not denying the shittyness of the WCW roster, but it shows where Sting was as a worker at the time by not carrying people to good matches during that year.

One could also argue though, that 1995 was the start of Stings "decline", which was made permanent by whoever's stupid decision it was to sit him out of action for 15 months. 1995 wasn't that bad a of a year though when looking at who he was put with though.

Bret Hart was wrestling people like Owen, Bob Backlund, and Hakushi who were all very good wrestlers (at the time), while also having to deal with luggage Kevin Nash, and blackhole of wrestling Jerry Lawler. Hart also got 1 shotters with Davey Boy, the 1-2-3 Kid, and Jean-Pierre Laffitte, who were all still capable of having good matches. Even when he fought Isaac Yankem at Summerslam '95, it wasn't a complete carry job.

Hart's 1994/95 was a lot more generous with opponents than Stings in 1995.

My fault....bad example in Bret. How about HBK from 95-96. He was constantly wrestling dead shits in the ring. Minus, Bret/Owen/Bulldog out of the equation and he was mainly working shitty hosses.

I have to agree there, but Sting and Shawn Michaels are two nearly different wrestlers.

Shawn is more about putting himself in harm and bouncing off people, while Sting is more of a more selling version of Hulk Hogan, except with more wrestling ability and less charisma.

Back to Shawns opponents...

He had a short program with Kama for KOTR leading to one of Shawns most boring matches ever (even moreso than vs. Hart @ WM XII), had to drag a good match out of Nash at IYH 7, was saddled with Psycho Sid for a little while before someone realized that wouldn't work, and randomly had matches with Jerry Lawler. Also had a short program with Goldust in '96 that really didn't amount to anything.

Something I forgot: He managed to have 2 boring matches with the 1-2-3 Kid in the Winter-Spring '96, which could be argued that he was dogging it because he was leaving the company (Waltman, not Shawn).

Surely you're not arguing that Sting is on-level with Bret or HBK in the ring.

Who is? We're comparing their opponents in a certain time frame, which happens to be the worst year(s) in terms of quality wrestling.

Edit: It's obvious I think I don't like Shawn Michaels much, so I won't try and say anything thats complete B.S. other than I enjoy Stings matches more (pre 1999 at least).

I personally don't think Sting is better than Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels in any discernable way. But, just for reference, I dug up who these guys were fighting in the time periods in question.



Bret Hart in 1994/5
Royal Rumble 94- Bret Hart and Lex Luger co-win the Royal Rumble
WrestleMania 10- Owen Hart def Bret Hart; Bret Hart def Yokozuna
King of the Ring 94- Diesel def Bret Hart by DQ
SummerSlam 94- Bret Hart def Owen Hart in a Steel Cage
Survivor Series 94- Bob Backlaund def Bret Hart
Royal Rumble 95- Bret Hart wrestled Diesel to a draw
WrestleMania11- Bret Hart def Bob Backlaund
In Your House- Bret Hart def Hakushi; Jerry Lawler def Bret Hart
King of the Ring 95- Bret Hart def Jerry Lawler
SummerSlam 95- Bret Hart def Issac Yankem DDS
In Your House III- Bret Hart def Jean-Pierre Lafeit
Survivor Series- Bret Hart def Diesel
In Your House V- Bret Hart def British Bulldog

Shawn Michales in 1995/6
Royal Rumble 95- Shawn Michaels wins the Royal Rumble
WrestleMania11- Diesel def Shawn Michaels
King of the Ring 95- Mabel def Shawn Michaels
In Your House II- Shawn Michaels def Jeff Jarrett
SummerSlam 95- Shawn Michaels def Razor Ramon in a Ladder Match
In Your House III- Shawn Michaels and Diesel def Yokozuna and British Bulldog
Survivor Series 96- Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson, British Bulldog, and Sid def Yokozuna, Razor Ramon, Owen Hart, and Dean Douglas
Royal Rumble 96- Shawn Michaels wins the Royal Rumble
In Your House VI- Shawn Michaels def Owen Hart
WrestleMania12- Shawn Michaels def Bret Hart
In Your House VII- Shawn Michaels def Diesel
Beware of Dog- Shawn Michaels wrestled British Bulldog to a draw
King of the Ring 96- Shawn Michaels def British Bulldog
International Incident- Vader, Owen Hart, and British Bulldog def Shawn Michaels, Sid, and Ahmed Johnson
SummerSlam 96- Shawn Michaels def Vader
Mind Games- Shawn Michaels def Mankind
Survivor Series 96- Sid def Shawn Michaels

Sting in 1995
Clash Of the Champions- Sting def Avalanche
SuperBrawl- Sting and Randy Savage def Avalanche and Big Bubba
Uncensored- Big Bubba Rogers def Sting
Slamboree- Sting def Big Bubba Rogers
Great American Bash- Sting def Meng
Bash at the Beach- Sting def Meng
Clash of the Champions- Sting and Road Warrior Hawk def Meng and Kurasawa
Fall Brawl- Sting, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, and Lex Luger def Shark, Zodiac, Kamala, and Meng in War Games
Halloween Havoc- Sting and Ric Flair def Brian Pillman and Arn Anderson by DQ when Flair turned on Sting
World War 3- Sting def Ric Flair; Sting participated in World War III but was eliminted by The Giant
Starrcade- Sting defeated Kensuke Sasaki; Ric Flair defeated Lex Luger and Sting

Well, looking at this I think the "dead shits" argument for Michaels is really not true at all. The only piece of crap he really feuded throughout the whole two years was Mabel. Otherwise you have Hall and Nash at the top of their games, a very good feud with Jeff Jarrett, tangles with both Harts, Vader, and Foley, and an interesting program with Sid (which, while they aren't classics, are probably the best thing Sid ever did).

So I'd say it comes down to Bret or Sting as far as the who the crappier opponents are. Sting had ONE GOOD FEUD in the period we're talking about, and that's vs the Horsemen. Flair, Anderson, and Pillman were good. And he had a one shotter with Sasaki. Besides that, he didn't have shit. Meng? Decent in the late 80s/very early 90s, nothing after about 1992. Bubba? I loved him earlier, but he sucked in this period. And the Dungeon of Doom? Please. Bret certainly worked his share of stiffs, but I'd take Glen Jacobs and a broken down Jerry Lawler over the Dungeon of Doom anyday. Plus he had guys like Owen, Diesel, Bulldog, Shinzaki, and Backlaund, who all ranged from very carryable to awesome at this point in time. So I think it's pretty safe to say that Sting got fed absolute shit at a time when he still could have been pounding out classics.

That being said, I think Sting should be in the HoF. Since we don't have a very clear cut set of rules, I say he deserves to be in because he always seemed very entertaining to me even if he had no help in the ring (barring his last run in WCW). He had some very good and even great matches in his career, most notably with Flair, Muta, and Vader, and was a key ingredient in the initial nWo angle, which is one of the biggest in wrestling history. He was always extremely over and, save Flair, is who I will always think as the face of WCW, which was the second biggest company in the history of the business. I vote yes.

TehDoct0r rules... and he's a Yankee fan! (ahnds him $50)

I think he should be. Yeah he wasn't the best in the ring and he's definately a second tier guy as far as overness goes. But I would argue he belongs in the Hall of Fame for his 97 run alone. He was drawing huge amounts of money for just dropping out of the rafters and hitting people with a baseball bat. I doubt many people could pull that off. I place him under Hogan, Austin, Rock and above HBK and Hart on the scales.

But like I've said in other threads. Being a WWF/WCW/NWA/IWGP/Triple Crown Champion should mean you're heavily considered for the Hall of Fame.

I might be really biased yet again, but I always loved Sting's promos partially because of the cheese factor to them. I thought it was surprisingly effective when he kept it up after he started dressing like "the crow." It was like "here's a scary looking gothic dude who talks as if he's preparing to battle Chester McCheesington" in a Saturday afternoon matinee main event.

Better than Bret and Shawn? Any reason why?

I try :D

Sting's 97 and early 98 run made him a better draw than HBK or Hart and his following in Japan puts him on a level slightly above both. I would argue Hart's fairly even with him but HBK is nowhere near as close as far as drawing. I'd even go as far to say that HBK is a negative as far as drawing goes.

The only drawing Shawn knows how to do is what he did in Kindergarten.

Interesting points. So you think drawing ability is a big factor? Or do you just think Sting is better in the ring throughout his career than HBK?

I'm just wondering, because to me, HBK is a lock, too. You can say what you want about him personally, but I absolutely love several of his matches, from Rocker days all the way through to the present. His body of work smokes Sting's, IMO.

I'll say this about Sting; I loved when he started showing up for weeks on end in the Corw garb without saying a word. That was great stuff. The fans were eating that crap up. They really should have ran with that gimmick.

Like I said, both had their own styles, and the only thing they really had in common was no selling stuff, although Stings no selling is ignoring Flairs chops or just getting up from a slam. Shawns no selling is 15 minutes of back work that should cripple him.

I'll agree with all that. Of course, HBK is active so he won't be a candidate for a while, but yeah, loads more classic matches.

I think Sting/Vader in most forms blows almost anything HBK ever did in the ring out of the water. I'd also place several of the Sting/Muta encounters slightly above most of HBK's work.

HBK matches fall apart mostly because due to his no selling at key moments and the fact that the match revolves completely around HBK's high spots. Sting/Muta was revolutionary wrestling during their series in 89. Sting/Vader never disappointed.

Sting doesn't have the carry power that HBK does though. HBK got some good stuff out of useless slugs during the mid 90s.

I think it's a push more than anything on ringwork.

Fair enough. I think you may be right about Sting/Vader being better than anything HBK ever did. I personally enjoy some of HBKs work a little better, but Sting/Vader is 8 shades of awesome. Overall body of work though, I like Shawn.

On the no selling issue.

What HBK did was much worse. You'd have a match where the heel spent 20 minutes working over the back and knee of Shawn but when it was time for the HBK comeback it was all meaningless and he never sold it again. Look at Summerslam 02 for a perfect example. The whole match was builtup around him having a bad back and the kip up was an awful no sell.

Sting did the typical Hulking up no sell. This usually involved no selling chops in the corner after he had taken a beating and fight back. Now the key difference to this was that Sting usually gassed out of the Hulk up and went back to selling the damage. I believe in the rematch with Hogan his first Hulk up ends with him shoulderblocking Hogan and then going down. It's a much more believable no sell and he usually doesn't ruin the body of a match by doing it.

What Sting would do could be considered a more believable adrenaline rush.

My God, this is like the fucking thread of doom here people. I've read some stuff over the last few pages that I honestly couldn't believe people are saying.

Also, Doc....I was mainly talking about the stuff Shawn was doing on TV at the time and less about PPV stuff. I should have clarified that......

Also, Mad Dog....I honestly have a hard time believing that you think the Sting/Muta stuff is above almost anything Michaels has ever done? Let's be honest here as HBK in ring.....is better than Muta OR Sting. Look at the catalog of matches that they have and HBK is clearly above Sting and light years above Muta. Also, Sting was hardly a huge draw.....especially if the majority of your career with a company they only make profits one year. I don't care how they were spending either.......Sting was never a household name and he never was in anything "mainstream" outside of WCW. The only successful draws in pro wrestling (North America) over the last 10 years were the nWo gimmick/Hogan, Goldberg, The Rock, and Austin.....off the top of my head. Also I wouldn't be so quick to say that almost all of the Sting/Vader series is head and shoulders above Shawn's work either. I am a fan of the Sting/Vader series, but it's not head and shoulders above Shawn/Bret (Survivor Series 1992), Shawn/Mankind (Mind Games) just to name two. Also, if you wanna compare Shawn of today against Sting in his last few years, HBK still smokes him in match quality. Although I'll agree that HBK has had some bad stuff here and there for the last couple years, it's still better than anything Sting did with Vampiro or The Demon during his last few feuds.

It IS possible that not everyone sucks on Shawn Michaels preverbial teat and enjoys other wrestlers more.

I enjoy other wrestlers more. But the majority of them wouldn't be on this list because half the people here don't know who they are. It's for the sake of discussion, I'm not dickriding Michaels.....I'd be glad to talk over his flaws with you when ever your ready.

I agree totally with the last post. And that's not to take anything away from Sting (or Muta or Vader) but I really think Shawn is phenomenal.