So Randy Orton won the WWE Championship last October at No Mercy. He defeated Triple H in a last man standing to claim the gold. Personally, I thought it was a strong match and rated it ***3/4. I was against Orton being a World Champion at that point, but I couldn't argue that his reign started off on the right note.

Since then, his pay-per-view title defenses have gone as such:

Cyber Sunday: was disqualified against Shawn Michaels when he hit a low blow as HBK was attempting Sweet Chin Music.

Survivor Series: defeated Shawn Michaels.

Armageddon: retained against Chris Jericho due to a disqualification from an interferring JBL.

Royal Rumble: Defeated Jeff Hardy, after a heated rivalry which had fans clamoring for a Hardy title win. To me, this is the ultimate achievement Orton has had since winning the belt.

No Way Out: retained against his old enemy, John Cena, by disqualification yet again.

Wrestlemania 24: retained against John Cena and Triple H. After Triple H pedigreed Cena, Orton kicked HHH in the face as he was trying to get the pin. Orton then pinned Cena himself. I considered this to be a clever finish.


And now Orton heads into Backlash against Cena, Triple H, and JBL. He seems on his way to retaining yet again.


So, after several months I have been won over by Orton as WWE Champion because I have enjoyed his reign. His DQ "wins" have stirred up positive heel heat reactions from me and his win at Wrestlemania was a genuine surprise. So, how do the rest of you feel?

Please share and discuss!

As an Orton fan, I want the man to succeed, but I can not sit here and say that the Orton run has set the world on fire.

Even though he has gotten heel heat, every week he looks like a chump.

Can we forget how many time HBK super kicked him on the way to Survivor Series?

Or Jeff Hardy swanton off the titan tron.

I understand they were red herrings on the way to the Orton win, and booked to make the challenger have a chance, but the champions shouldn't be booked so poorly IMO.

It might be my natural disliking for Orton that makes it so I don't mind how often he's made to look like a chump. He pulls through when it counts, and he usually does so on his own accord (which was the problem with Jericho's reign, he'd often retain only because someone else, like Booker T or the nWo got involved). I also like the way Orton tries to rewrite his history as champion (for example, he always claims he beat Chris Jericho and John Cena, when it was actually due to disqualifications, and were actually losses). He's been a wonderful chicken-shit heel.

I'm with you, Rowe. As much as I haven't liked Orton in the past (Despite wanting to), his current reign is really winning me over. I honestly don't want him to drop the belt right now.

The only weakness at this point, and it's a big one, is that he doesn't have much to play against at the moment. Unless they bring someone over from another brand, he's already handled all the top babyfaces. They really need to work someone fresh, and/or move HHH or Micheals to Smackdown. Unless they want to give Val Venis a title shot.

You're absolutely right about Orton's challenger well drying up. I figure he probably has one more big match against Triple H before the feud is finished (which might even be the title change match) but Cena is tied up for the time being (I still think they could have steam for another big rematch down the road) and everyone else is a heel (Regal, JBL, Kennedy).

If Orton gets by Backlash with the belt, there'll probably be another draft, and maybe they'll bring over CM Punk or someone else to freshen things up.

But yeah, I'd be perfectly content to see Orton's reign be stretched out another few months.

Failed in every sense. He's not over. He only gets heat when it's playing off of the face or the face beating the shit out of him. He comes out to virtual silence for a WWE Champion more often than not. He's reign is going to be remembered as the reign where he should've lost the belt several times and the company has stubbornly stuck to him. The apathy towards him is astounding for how hard they push the guy.

Now, it wasn't all his fault. The stupid bullshit of losing it and winning it back from HHH all in one night was really a terrible way to start the reign

And they also refuse to book a heel champion well that isn't HHH.

The way I see it, the heel's job is not to get over. It's to get the babyface over. I think Orton has done that well with both Micheals and Hardy. Especially Hardy.

The biggest problem with this reign is that both Micheals and HHH are stale babyfaces. Every feud and match they have feels just like the ones before it, and it's hard to do anything with them as a result. Flair lasted as long as he did because he made everything feel special, even the stupidest bullshit he had to deal with. With HHH and Michaels, you know when they don't care or not. Maybe not directly, but you know. That's the flaw in them still being around

Triple H was not a well booked heel champion because all he did was put himself over and bury his opposition back to the midcard. He was extremely damaging to the Raw brand from about September 2002 until late 2003. If you're referring to 2000 Triple H, then yes, I'd agree with you on that. He was an awesome heel champion, though his twist there was that he was legitimately good and that angered the fans. That doesn't work all the time. He also had Foley and The Rock to work with.

As Swiggy pointed out, Orton has been great at getting his opponents over. Hardy was red hot during that feud, and he'd assumably still that over if he hadn't been suspended.

And as a heel champion, I think he should be leaving the fans with a sense of "he should have lost the title."

No he hasn't.

He has been programmed with people that are perpetually over.

I dont thin that HBK Cena, and HHH need that desparate orton rub.

Hardy...maybe and thats stretching it.

Jericho more than likely and thats due to people not knowing who he was. but he was still over.

Chicken shit heels do not work in today's wrestling landscape. Think about the last chicken shit heel. Its like 10 years ago seriosuly. And the chicken shit heel WORLD CHAMPION doesnt work in the WWF. JBL tried the chicken shit heel world champ and it went off like a fart in chruch. He had to do the whole wrestling god shit to get over and that was after he lost the title.

Plus, how do you book Orton as a chicken shit heel when he doesn't act chicken shit when the match starts? He goes out there, fights, gets beat to a pulp and RKO out of nowhere. That's not a chicken shit heel.

Frankly he is booked very weird. He takes the face's finish every week up til the PPV, squeaks out the clean win at the PPV. That doesnt make him chicken shit. He isn't scared to get into the ring. He rarely shows weakness up until. He walks around with shiners and black eyes. Its pretty gutsy. He's a dickhead heel that wins.

Like an asshole Tom Brady.

Well, looks like I made this thread just in time. Triple H won the WWE Championship at Backlash.

And here I was about to write about this on my blog.

Thanks HHH, not only do you bore me as a performer, but now you ruin my blogging as well

Tell that to Edge. He's the best heel in wrestling and a chicken shit is his total gig.

I can't help but feel like Orton got the rug pulled out from under him tonight. What was the point of retaining at Wrestlemania if they were just going to end it at Backlash of all shows? The heat and momentum he got from that should've kept him going strong until the summer at least.

But I guess having Triple H with the belt gives the heel upper card guys a chance to challenge. JBL can get that singles match he'd seemingly be in line for and King Regal can step up.

What annoys me is it seems like the gaggle of heels on RAW have been brought together solely to provide HHH with opponents.

I know a lot of people are going to make arguments (not necessarily here) that Triple H winning the WWE title is a good move because he's a big star who hasn't had a real reign in three years, but I think this sucks. Triple H with a World title is completely boring and just feels out of place in the year 2008 when there are guys like Cena and Orton who have been doing a fine job carrying the ball. Giving the belt to HHH feels like a step backwards at this point.


At least Cena/HHH II at Wrestlemania 25 should be fun.

I disagree that Edge is a chicken shit heel.

You have seen his TLC matches. His matches with Foley, and then you call him a chicken shit heel?

Hey, I might've stumbled over the reason for tonights title change:

And of course they won't fire him because he's immune to it because he's an office pet project. How much shit has he literally gotten away with over the years? They've fired people for much less. Hell, they fucking fired Rhino for breaking a flower pot.

And HHH with the title sucks and there's no possible way to make him with the title acceptable on any level after the first 5 years of this decade.

It all depends on what belt he walks out with tonight.

Ugh, if Triple H suddenly becomes the internet's hero for getting rid of the Cena belt, I'm going to puke. It's the same thing when people get on Cena's nuts for starting that in the first place. What, do people think Cena actually created it himself and that it wasn't put onto him by someone in management/creative?

I don't think you properly understand chicken shit heel. As a heel, the character you portray is only worthwhile if you can hold your own in the ring. At a Main Event level, you can't be completely chicken shit in the ring or the fans will properly shit on you.

As a heel, you have to be competent and even dangerous. It's the foundation of being a good chicken shit. The fact that you could hold your own with the guy, yet you often resort to other tactics to win is what makes you good. Look at Raven in ECW for the best modern example. Could he go toe to toe with the Sandman and Tommy Dreamer? Yes. Did he always? No. That's what makes a chicken shit.

To add to what Swiggy said, Edge is the quintesential chickenshit heel.

Look at how he cashed in his money in the bank....twice. Total chickenshit.

Shacking up with the GM and getting some goons....total chickenshit.

Also Swiggy, the chickenshit foundation is this to me and I'll even use your line.

As a heel, you have to be competent and even dangerous. It's the foundation of being a good chickenshit heel. The fact that you could hold your own with the guy, yet you often resort to underhanded tactics because it's easier to win than what is the noble way of winning. Although lacking morals the heel is ALWAYS smarter than the face, until the ultimate payoff.

While I may not have wanted HHH to have the title, I certainly didn't want Randy Orton to have the title. There may be some here who disagree but I have never thought Orton had what it took to be even a good champion, let alone great.

Now that I've stepped in it, I wasn't fond of any of the choices for the WWE Championship. JBL has not been what he was before and I don't feel that he could pull of a decent championship run. While Cena is hated here and loved there, his movie making gets in the way of concentrating on any wrestling title.

That left HHH who seems to still be a major draw wherever he goes but you should also take into consideration how many injuries he has suffered (and Edge seems to be following right along with him). How long will HHH be able to hold the title before he's out again having surgery?

As for Edge, I think he makes a great heel. I liked him when he was partnered with Christian but he can pull of the single matches, too. My issue with Edge right now is the storylines he's been stuck with. If I never see Vickie Guerrero on the tube again, I'll be thrilled.

I don't know how many of you watch the weekly shows but I have been amazed at the length and quality of matches Undertaker has had since his title win.

Honestly, Orton deserved a long run when they first put it on him. The fact that he dropped it almost immediately to Trips killed him. He's been trying to make up ground since that day. Although I thought there were moments during his reign that were great, but overall I would have to classify it as mediocre. Orton HAD what it takes to be champion, they just need to quit underbooking him.

I don't feel JBL could pull it off either. He's honestly been pretty bad since his return and although it seems that he's picked up steam being in the M.E. picture, but that'll die once he's shifted again. Cena is the best choice, as the movie stuff should hurt that much because it's a WWE film. They'll work around his schedule. But if not him I would think that the title would be better off in the Batista/HBK stuff. But now the title is back on Triple H and we get to see him have a reign as a face. UGH.

EDIT - I'm reading some stuff this morning that's making me thing HHH's first opponent for the title might be Big Show....which is better than the ones I just named, but it's kind of meh.

Honestly, the main reason why it's bad to have HHH as champion is that before his reign has started, he has no good contenders. HHH/Cena already did their big feud. Nobody to my knowledge wants to see a HHH/Orton feud keep going. HHH/JBL would interest anyone, either would HHH/Y2J, or HHH/HBK. The only thing that would be remotely interesting is if they figured out a way to have HHH/Taker lock horns and that wouldn't make any sense.

Honestly I love Edge's current storyline. The fact that he's shacked up with Vickie makes him even more of a chickenshit scumbag.

Honestly, I go in spells with Taker....but when he's motivated/champion he's honestly pretty fucking awesome.

You and I will have to agree to disagree regarding Randy Orton. I don't see any major talent in Orton. He walked into easy street and that's the way he carries himself (and he doesn't have to say that -- it shows).

I am also of the opinion that WWE needs to have ONE WWE Championship belt, ONE WWE Tag Team Championship and if they must keep the Intercontinental and US Championships, then I can live with that. As far as I was concerned, WWE should have kept the cruiser weight and if they continue to bring in Big Shows and Khalis, they should have a belt for Super Huge or something along those lines.

There isn't any talent for the titles because they have too many championships going on.

Before you start yelling, remember I am old school...I'll never agree that three nights a week and scattering the talent between those three shows is the way to do any sports entertainment.

I think the biggest problem is that the older guys are piling up at the top of the card. It's a lot like WCW in the late 90's, as they were falling. What needs to happen is that some of these guys need to take some time off or move around or something.

That's my biggest problem. We're talking about HHH and Taker as our champions... in 2008! I mean really. People have been talking about Taker needing to take a backseat and not being a top of the card guy anymore back in 1999 when his hip problems started becoming apparent. And then there's HHH. The guy is on reign 12 as a World Champion, something never done in the WWE before, and no one really wanted him as champion to begin with.

But Orton has major talent, there's no doubt about it. It's just his squandering of it that's so annoying. I'm not saying he's a good guy or anything, as I think he's one of the biggest pricks on the entire roster. But talent and attitude are two different things IMO.

Sure they need to have one definative WORLD/WWE champion. Although they did need two when they were doing the brand exclusive PPV's, but that all seems to be dead in the water now.

I'm more old school than just about everyone I know. If it was up to me you'd hardly see the champions wrestling on TV and there would be the return of enhancement talent.

Honestly, I have zero issues with Taker being champion right now. He's clearly one of the most over people on the roster and he can draw at the top of the card just as good or better than anything else they have right now. Plus, he's never been one to constantly be in the title picture, so I'm cool with it.

I have no problem with HHH, Taker or Kane being the champs right now. The only thing I want is some good, fresh matches. I liked HHH vs. Hardy...I'm upset that it was squandered. Wouldn't mind seeing HBK moved to Smackdown to further his feud with Batista and then feud with Taker, but it looks like they're going to push a program with him and Jericho.

I agree with the fresh matches. I spend a lot of time complaining about the talent being spread across three "brands" on three nights. It may be WWE's way of keeping their No. 1 spot on three networks, but it certainly can make for boring wrestling.

I agree 100% about the fresh matchups. That's the main reason why I don't like Trips having the belt at all. There just isn't anything fresh right now for him whatsoever.