There was a lot of confusion last time around. This is not a HOF chat. This is do you consider him to be a good worker or not. Would you push them, were they pushed enough career wise. Now you can approach them from a HOF stand point if you'd like but just state your argument as such.

I figure Raven will cause some fighting. Most people here like him but I think his ring work will cause some disagreement.

I honestly think he's been underutilized in his career. His character was well used in ECW, and I think that's been the only place to truly use him to his potential. He had his moments in WWF/WWE, but I don't think they truly got where his character could go.

I voted Yay for Raven.

The best ECW champion there ever was. He was more than utilized during his career although I thought that he was never where he should have been when in the WWE/WWF.

When I say underutilized, I mean outside of ECW. Although, you could argue that Johnny Polo was a good utilization of his talents before he became Raven

I heard the reason why Raven got treated poorly when he returned to WWF in 2000 was because Vince was pissed off because Shane got into trouble with him back when Raven worked there in the early 90's. Of course there is no way to prove any of this (that I'm aware of) but it's fun speculation.

Nay since 1998. The guy was a product of a system, much like a great Running Back in a good offense. He was the centerpeice for Paul Heyman, who was at his personal best as far as booking method, style, and execution, and Raven reaped the benefits.

Also, his ringwork for the past few years has been so ridiculously bad that I can't possibly go Yay.

His ringwork has gone down in the past few years due to a drug-related thyroid issue. I still think that if he were booked properly, he could be a great character who could torment upper mid-card workers.

I thought WCW used him really well up until he left. That was probably the highest you could push him in a world wide promotion.

Ringwork I'd say he's a B- in most regards. Stick him in there with a Benoit and get a great match. Throw him in there with a weaker worker and get a weak match. There's nothing wrong with that. He's gone way downhill now but he still has glimpses of the old Raven. That match from last May against Jarrett on Impact was a great match.

I don't know if I could agree with that since Raven was one of the more "creative" wrestlers on the ECW roster. It has been documented that Raven pretty much booked himself with Paul approving what Raven wanted to do. Raven has a great mind for wrestling, and fit in perfectly with the whole ECW mentality.

The first post so far to refer to his days in WCW. I was a huge mark for The Flock. That's when I first became a mark for Stevie Richards and Kanyon, and Raven, obviously.

From what I've heard, Raven was quite the backstage guy. Heyman's creative influence is there, but Raven did a fair share with booking guys as well. From what I've read, he's the one who came up with The Dudley Boyz gimmick. (Which is, of course, also based on the Hanson brothers from "Slap Shot".)

It's no secret that I can't stand the guy. As his so-called "creative" ideas are really just stolen...errrr, liberated from somewhere else. Be it movies, music or even comic books. Quoting Public Enemy's 1989 "Welcome to the Terrordome" in a 2005 promo is just wrong.

The main problem I have is that he presents himself as being so damn serious... when his gimmick is really quite stupid. His never-ending feud with Tommy Dreamer was okay, but the story behind it was awful: a summercamp dispute? Watching the old ECW stuff, it's funny how big of a part Stevie Richards had in getting Raven over.

It was always hard for me to stomach a guy in his late 30's trying to portray himself as a disillusioned slacker in his early 20's. Since this poll is about RAVEN, I have to stick to that. Johnny Polo was entertaining, but Raven is not.

Raven constantly recycles his angles.. How many times has he had a group of followers whom he has "enlightened to pain" or whatever the fuck he calls it. All the cronies in ECW, then the same shit in WCW, then the same shit in TNA in 2005 (Serotonin and Cassidy Reilly). How many times has he used the retarded "break your fingers" thing? The same fucking thing, everytime.

For a guy who seems to constantly be booked as a leader of freaks and, thus, given a relatively big push wherever he goes...he never seems to produce and has all the charisma of a sweat sock. So I give WWF credit for keeping him at the midcard level in 2000 (WCW would book him at the upper midcard level in 1998. Like featuring Raven and his dorks as the main focus of "Thunder").

Plus his rambling promos. "Oh, he's so smart and clever". No, he's a boring dork who mispronounces and mis-uses words and believes he's "cerebral" because nobody can pick up his miscues. They think he's "smart" because he doesn't give the typical "I'm gonna' rip your head off" promo. He gives crap about "the efffects of our society have heretofore been unexplored within the realms of pain to which I have seen". *fart* In a way, he's like the Ultimate Warrior without the shouting.

Raven just got pwned.

And I agree.

...plus I forgot a Cardinal Sin: he named his finisher after a fuckin' Pearl Jam song.

He's one of the guys I truly HATE (the other being some egotistical homoerotic turd who ripped off David Lee Roth) and I roll my eyes whenever he comes on my TV. "Oh no..not this turd, again"

Michaels or Jannetty?


And I vote "yay" mainly for his promos, even if he rips off songs from decades earlier. His mic' work out-weighs his questionable wrestling ability.

Really...if you're doing a pre-match promo about seeing your face reflected on a moutainside, then an avalanche occuring and how it defined your life...before your big match against CICLOPE on Thunder, that's not cutting a promo to me.

Hate Jannetty, too...but Michaels drives me up a wall. I liked him better when he was David Lee Roth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbXPHiyE7uE