Springing out of the hi-jacked concert thread and a discussion of Slayer and heavy metal.

According to Vh1 and journalists who were listening to Phil Collins in 1991, "hair metal" supposedly died overnight when Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" arrived in the fall of 1991. Douchebags like Sebastian Back of Skid Row claim that they were suddenly unable to get bookings or airplay and had to go into hibernation in September 1991. The Nirvana/grunge trend was definitely ONE of the reasons hair metal bands went away, but it wasn't the only one.

Before we go on, I think it's revelant to identify what I mean by "hair metal". Basically, the West Coast Metal sound. Radio friendly songs made popular by guys like Ratt, Motley Crue, Dokken, Def Leppard, Slaughter, Scorpions, White Lion, Warrant, Bon Jovi, etc. This differs from other metal sounds, such as the English stuff put out by Iron Maiden or Motorhead, or the US thrash/speed put out by Metallica or Anthrax. It's important to note that neither of those two genres received much radio or MTV airplay. Hair metal ruled the rock airwaves from about 1986 to 1991.

It's also important to note that hair metal survived until summer 1993. It didn't go away overnight. I'd tag Jackyl as the last hair band that "got over". They were released in the fall of 1992...a full year after the Nirvana boom and their album did well. But onward...

Reason #1 Hair Metal Died
In the end of the 80's, it got so bad that studios were cranking out dime-a-dozen hair bands. Stuff like Shotgun Messiah, Pretty Boy Floyd, Babylon AD or Danger Danger. Some of the worst music recorded in history. Over-produced bubble-gum pop with little substance and projecting the teased hair n' spandex image. The butt of several jokes and rightfully so. Bands that should have been swept to the curb with ODIN (the laughable band from "Decline of Western Civilization Pt. 2"). But this shit had received such wide-spread acceptance that it was safe to produce and market.

The downfall of the bubblegum crap actually started in the mid-80's with bands like Metallica, Exodus, Suicidal Tendencies, Overkill and others. They had a "harder" image, with less hairspray and closer connections to a garage band. Their music was more focussed on the instruments, with none of the chanting backing vocals (see: Bon Jovi's "You Give Love a Bad Name", which started the backing vocal trend. Def Leppard used it extensively the next year). You could only hear this stuff late at night and in some circles it was almost called "underground metal". The ugly metal. The stuff that really scares everyone away.

The seeds were planted and these bands had success (including a big breakout in 1987), but they didn't have the widespread acceptance of the hair bands. That all changed in August 1991 with a little track called "Enter: Sandman". Here was Metallica, THE prominent band of the "ugly metal" bands. Suddenly they were doing radio-friendly songs. Made Dokken and Bon Jovi look like even bigger wussies. People overwhelmingly flocked to the "ugly metal". Now it was accessible. Now it was everywhere. Even at Target's music section. As soon as the radio went nuts for Metallica, DJ's suddenly discovered it was okay to play their back catalog. Stuff like "Fade to Black", "Master of Puppets" and "One" was taking up airtime where "Up All Night", "Bad Medicine" and "Pour Some Sugar on Me" had been. While the big name hair bands survived, the Metallica surge left alot of the Shotgun Messiahs and Firehouses of the world looking for work.

There were also two more reasons... but I'll get to those in another post.

Reason #2 Hair Metal Died
The merger with "college rock" or what became known as "alternative" in the 90's. In late 1990, Jane's Addiction had a big breakthrough into the mainstream with "Stop". At first, it seemed like a heavy metal tune, but had a strange song structure and wasn't comparable to Ratt or Whitesnake. It had been played on college stations previously and when it jumped over, the band introduced alot of metal fans to new sounds. People would go to hunt down the album "Ritual de lo Habitual", then hear stuff they couldn't hear from their metal bands.

Red Hot Chili Peppers had a similar situation a year earlier, with 1989's "Higher Ground". Fishbone, Primus and Living Colour were three other bands that dabbled in both the "metal" and "college" radio frequencies. Again, established bands were pushing out the shitty bubble-gum hair bands. Even Rage Against the Machine went this route, albeit much later (late 1992 into 1993).

Reason #3 Hair Metal Died
Beavis & Butt-head. Don't knock it. This didn't happen until 1993, but it definitely put the nail in the coffin for hair metal. It was MTV's most popular show and it seemed to air constantly. It wasn't necessarily the cartoons, it was the voiceover commentaries on the videos they watched. They'd poke fun of hair bands ("uhh..is that a girl?"), while rocking out over videos they thought were "cool". White Zombie was, without a doubt, the greatest beneficiary of this. This affirmed, once and for all--and publicly-- that hair metal was lame.

Hair bands were still coming out at this time. Vince Neil's solo single "Sister of Pain" (with the guitarist from Billy Idol, no less) did okay when it came out in May 1993. Def Leppard had a big hit with the shitty "Two Steps Behind" in the summer of 1993. Original hair band KISS had a hit with their live update of "I Love It Loud"-- it even led off Monday Night Football one week in the '93 season. But in the fall, it was time for Round Two of the Grunge invasion, as Pearl Jam and Nirvana both released second albums.

A Final Minor Footnote
Some poeple say it helped the band's notoriety, but Guns n' Roses' self-destruction on their Fall '92 tour with Metallica might have contributted to the hair metal decline. It was basically the biggest hair metal band of the time and the biggest ugly metal band of the time. The ugly metal band won. I'm not 100% sold on this theory, but it does have some possibilities. Some folks maintain that GNR wasn't a "hair band"...but I'd say they were 66% hair band.

So, hair metal didn't die "overnight" and with Nirvana as VH1 would have you believe.

..and now ya' know.

I'll join in when I get some time to read this thoroughly. Looking good so far.

Reason #4 - Times a Changin!

Considering in the early 90's the US of A was going through major political changes itself, that tend to shift in degree as far as Rock music in general floats to. Look at Rock music's changes during the Vietnam era. In the early 90's we had the Gulf War, AIDS as a disease in the mainstream, etc. People were actually started to wake up a bit and get more politically aware. Thus, people didn't want to hear songs like the majority of the hair metal bands sung. Metallica's darker tones took over, grunge became the "Punk of the 90s" as a voice of many of the youth. Thus pushing glam fucking hairbands out of the frame. Kids didn't want to look that way, because even if they wanted to they couldn't afford to. The look became chic, and chic was OUT like a motherfucker.

I'll agree that this was a major reason. The 80's were a decade of overindulgence. The general idea was that we were a country that had no equal, and that we were practically invincible. We knew about exercise, and how to make money off the stock market. The culture of America was very similar to the culture of Hair Metal.
The 90's brought a new generation that was more annoyed at the decadence than enamored by it.

The one thing I'll add, the younger guys aren't gonna understand. Es may get this, maybe not.

I remember driving my Prelude to basketball practice my Junior year of high school. Tracy Jackson was riding shotgun and flipping around on the radio when he came across "I'm Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred. He was like "Have you heard this crap?", and we proceeded to sit in stunned silence through the entire song. Just after it was over, those first nasty chords of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" broke through, and then you hear Cobain just screaming through the radio. Once again, we kind of sat in stunned silence. I remember turning to Tracy and saying aloud, "Sh**'s about to change." I don't think he understood what I meant.

So, while i agree with all the earlier assessments, I will interject that all of those things were only symptoms of the problem. All the reasons that have been given are simply reasons for why a change was needed. The change did not come until Kurt Cobain screamed his unintelligable lyrics through the bandwaves of TOP 40 radio. Sure, there had always been "alternative" music, but before Nirvana it had been just that - alternative. The afore mentioned bands (Chili Peppers, Fishbone, etc) were marginally successful touring bands, but were still relegated to playing clubs, NOT leading a cultural phenomenon. Teen Spirit kicked down the wall of Pop radio, that was at the time held up by acts like Ru'Paul and Right Said Fred. It was only after Perry Farrell capitilized on the alternative movement with his Lollapalooza tour that bands like Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden became household names. (The tour actually started a year earlier than most people realize. The first year featured Living Colour and Fishbone and was only marginally successful as compared with 92's monsterous success.) I'll compare it to an interview I saw with Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys, who in the 60's was seen as a brilliant, ground-breaking producer. He said he was listening to the radio and heard a Phil Spector song, when he realized that he had become lame overnight. I like to think of all the boys sitting around with all the make-up and bandanas, and hairspray watching MTV. Upon seeing a guy in baggy jeans playing a Fender Mustang, jumping around a high school gym with his hair in his face, they all suddenly realize that they have become lame overnight.

In summary, a change was bound to happen. There was just too much crap out there for someone not to point it out. However, it took Nirvana's brutal honest to expose to the rest of the world how crappy things had become.

I remember watching MTV at my grandma's house as a kid. There was a time when I watched and saw Paula Abdul, Whitney Houston and Bon Jovi. The next time I went it was Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam.

I remember being stunned, and thanking God that Rock and Roll was actually Rock and Roll

Dang straight.

I think you guys get it. Again, I'm not saying the Nirvana boom didn't have an influence. I just think there was more to the change than most people would believe.

It's important to note that the first time alot of people heard or saw Nirvana was on MTV. Myself included, which is why I never warmed up to them. Usually, MTV="un-cool". There had been no cult buzz about the band, they just popped up on Top 40 radio instantly.

It was also cool that there was suddenly no "rock n' roll" image. Nirvana and Metallica were wearing jeans and black t-shirts. No tiger-print spandex, headbands or poofy shirts. As kids, we could roll out of bed, put on our regular clothes and look like a band member. Well...I didn't have the LONG hair like James Hetfield, but I had a short mullet. Just made it easier to relate to the bands. What you wore to the concert, you could also wear to science class.

When I went to see Iron Maiden in Feb. 1987, I felt weird because everybody else had teased hair, leather or spandex. When I went to see Metallica in Feb. 1992, I felt normal since everybody was wearing the same shit as me--and I didn't dress up in any special "concert gear". Jeans, t-shirt and baseball hat. I was IN.

I was part of the punk rock rebirth in '87. My group of friends was wearing combat boots, baggy pants, and DIY-type band T-shirts while everyone else was wearing Dexter shoes, pleated Khaki shorts, braided leather belts, and Polo shirts. There were 5-10 of us who were just total outcasts. I was kinda pissed when grunge hit, and I was suddenly part of the in crowd.

Sure, it was about Hair Metal, but I thought this was an entertaining and worthwhile discussion. Good job, campers.

The music folder's been poppin lately. Where has LFV been?

Well..if he was here, I'm sure he'd find some way to relate this to AFI

Very good thread, and very good points, but I'm one of the rare few who is on the "heel" side of this whole discussion.

I LOVE Hair Metal. And not like, good Hair Metal. I love Warrant, and Skid Row, and fucking Alias, and Great White, and Whitesnake of course.

I've never been a big fan of Nirvana. I've felt my entire life, from when I was in middle school and that song hit, to this very day, that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is kind of an overrated peice of garbage. Is it a killer little rock-out jam? Fuck yes. Does it have a great identifiable riff? Fuck yes it does. But it isn't the messiah of fucking rock and roll.

I'm still pissed that Hair Metal died. It really was always the pro wrestling of the music scene, and maybe that has something to do with my ties to it. It was over the top, sappy, all made up, formulamatic, and dramatic. But I love(d) it.

One thing that really bothered me in this thread, but this snippet from ES:

See, to me, Rock and Roll is that image. Rock and Roll is unattainable, and thats why we're not all rock stars. It doesn't have to be spandex. It can be Elvis Presley fucking diamond studded leisure suit. It can be the beatles matching suits and raggy moptop hair. You can't be the same as them, or they aren't shit. All the horrible fucking music on the radio today, is all by guys that look exactly like douchebags that I work with. I feel like the music scene has been infiltrated by regular people, and they've just destroyed it. Rock stars should look like rock stars, not like you're sorry ass in your double lightning bolt Metallica t-shirt.

And ES, for pumping out tons of awesome stuff in this thread, it really saddens me to see that you're are a "its on MTV, it can't be cool" kind of guy. Thats exactly the kind of "non-conformist" attitude that I can't stand. Who cares what channel it is on? Just listen to it, see if you enjoy it, make your decisions, and move on.

Grunge and Nirvana and alternative and all that just allowed nerdy little non-accepted kids to finally live out their dreams of being someone. They see this ragged little skinny nerd in Kurt Cobain, and they thing they could be just like him, cause they have clothes just like him. In short, they were IN.

Well, that's an interesting perspective. Outside of the personal digs at es, I think you bring a valid arguement. To me, it's just a matter of how authentic the act comes across. I love Elvis, P-funk, Lenny Kravitz, and loads of other "over-the-top" gaudy dressed musicians. However, those always came across as authentic. I could totally imagine Elvis in a sequined jump suit walking through Wal-Mart. Some of the hair emtal bands just seemed way to manufactured. Sort of like Backstreet Boys, honeslty. Insert 4 boys, add make-up, hairspray, and spandex and BOOM - insant hair band. Don't get me wrong, some weren't too bad - G-nR, etc, but for the most part, the whole scene was overdone and had to be killed. Sort of like the Grunge scene, once Creed and Nickleback and that gang of imposters came around.

Also want to point out that I'm not, nor have I ever been, a Nirvana fan. Frankly, they were a terrible band. However, their ability to relate what was happening on the underground to the Top 40/ MTV audience was crucial to the music revival of the early 90's.

I said usually to qualify it. There was alot of crap that I was introduced to on MTV. I didn't get into KISS until I was 18 and saw a Headbanger's Ball episode in August 1992 with Gene Simmons and their old "I Love it Loud" video.

But just being on MTV and being in their regular rotation were two different animals. That meant you were overplayed. Nirvana went into MTV's regular rotation in November 1991 and seeing/hearing it every 20 minutes started to get old. Wasn't into Nirvana, but at times I'd think: "maybe I should get that album", but counter with: "why? It's not that good and it's on every frickin' 20 minutes".

There was some regular rotation that I used to dig. Whitesnake for example-- loved those guys. When they came back in 1989 with "Fool for Your Lovin" I simply thought their new stuff sucked and I dropped them. Soundgarden and Pearl Jam were both in regular rotation in early 1992 and I really dug those two bands (still like Soundgarden, gave up on Pearl Jam in 1995). It was an uphill battle for those two bands to win me over.

The dress code thing (jeans n' t-shirts vs. spandex n' hair) was relevant. Really, the "unattainable image" bothered me. I never wanted to have teased-up long hair (aside from my mullet) or walk around in leather chaps. As much as I loved "Eat 'em n' Smile", it bothered me when I'd see David Lee Roth riding inflatable microphones and wearing stuff robbed from a Vegas showgirl's closet (BTW, Shawn Michaels is a total rip-off of DLR...but that's another thread). I was embarassed to hang up pictures of my favorite metal bands in my locker. Which is probably why I loved Maiden so much-- I could hang up their endless pictures of Eddie the 'Ed. But when grunge and Metallica got into the mainstream, I wasn't embarassed. I'd see Axl Rose in bandanas and kilts and think "I'd never wear that". Then I'd see the dorks from Pearl Jam in t-shirts and think "looks like me".

Of course, I'm debating with a dude who digs Hootie & the Blowfish :)

Haha, you got me on the Hootie. And not really debating, and those weren't "personal digs" at ES, as much as they were just impressions on an entire genre of music fans, which I grouped him into based on his comments.

As for WMD's bit about it feeling very un-authentic and all that. I'm a very vocal music kind of guy. Nothing does it for me like badass vocals, and thats one thing Hair Metal has over maybe any other kind of popular music genres. The vocalists were fucking UNREAL. I would say it was all studio, but I've heard Sebastian Bach, Janie Lane, and Bret Michaels sing live (and even years later) and the motherfuckers all have unbelievable voices. Thats what original drew me to the genre.

Combine those amazing vocals with catchy riffs and great melodies, and I can defend Hair Metal until I die.

Again, great motherfuckin discussion.

Well, aside from the image, Hair Metal seemed to have a very predictable music formula.

1- Verse, Chorus
2- Verse, Chorus
3- guitar solo. maybe a bridge before of after.
4- Verse, Chorus. Maybe a little freestylin' at the end (like say "oh baby, yeahhh" instead of just "oh baby")

Alot of rock songs have that same basic formula, but it was very noticeable in Hair Metal.

So what's the most obscure Hair Metal band in your collection, jamie? I'm not looking to ridicule, just curious. If it's Firehouse, Trixter or Shotgun Messiah-- sorry, but I will laugh at you. Hard.

Oh yeah, I also foget to cite Poison in my "late hair metal successes". They had a minor hit with "Stand" in the summer of 1993.

I think the official "death" of hair metal was around March 1994 when the "new" Motley Crue flopped. At that time, Soundgarden, Nine Inch Nails and Pantera had just come out with very successful albums and nobody cared about Crue. Beavis & Butt-head put the nail in the coffin, but Crue's flop might've been the groundskeeper filling in the hole with dirt.

Hair Metal was pretty much a joke after that, until the late 90's/early 00's when it came back as a novelty via VH1 (or more accurately, all the kids that liked it in the 80's were now grown up, had real jobs and more influence). But I don't think we'll ever see a "new" Hair Metal band in our lifetimes.

You make a good point about vocalists jamie. I wouldn't call the genre as a whole good for vocals, but certainly the guys you named were great, and the songs left a lot of room for a vocalist to show his range. I would argue that Chris Cornell was as good as any of those guys, though. In fact, I think "Say Hello to Heaven" from the Temple of the Dog album is probably the best rock vocal ever. So the 90's movement wasn't without it's great vocalists, though I'll admit Cornell was more the exception than the rule.

As for obscure Hair metal : Firehouse was a local band so I had to check them out. Plus the 9th and 10th grade girls would lose all inhibition while listening to "Love of a Lifetime". Another Hair band from my hometown that hit it big were Animal Bag. Had two MTV hits at the tail end of the hair period with "City Song" and "Hey Cosmo". If you haven't heard them, or more likely just don't remember hearing them, you should check them out.

My own closet hair favorite is by a Christian Hair band called Bride. Album is Snakes in the Playground. I demand each of you to get on Amazon, find the disc for a penny and buy it. Sure, their is some unintentional comedy going on their, but there's also some irresistable music going down. One way or another, it'll be one of the most entertaining discs you've ever bought.

Yeah, I remember (but had forgotten about) Animal Bag. Were they hair metal? I want to say that they came out in early 1993 and seemed like a RHCP rip-off, especially on that "City Song" (or as most folks called it, "Everybody").

They seemed to present that hippie image, though. I think they had a chubby bass player and the singer had dreadlocks.

But either way, they were thrown on the radio with the Hair Metal acts.

New question, but do you guys remember the "91x" brand of radio outlets that popped up in 1995? It was either "92X, 93x, etc". Their format was "new rock" and they would constantly air spots that slammed hair metal, while promoting the "coolness" of bands like Silverchair, Filter, Catherine Wheel, etc.

To address your point about the predictability of the genre:

I'm very aware of it, and as I mentioned, its part of what I love about it.

I really don't think I can answer what the most obscure hair metal band in my "collection" is, cause I don't really have a collection to speak of. Alot of what I have from more obscure bands are just single tracks I've downloaded. If I had to just pick one out of nowhere that I don't think everyone knows about, I'll say "Alias". ("More than Words Can Say", and no, not the Extreme song.) I really dig that song, and their total sappiness.

So yeah, its pretty much the same as saying Firehouse :)

Yeah, and I don't think we'll ever see a "real" Hair Metal band again. The best I can continue to hope for is awesome cover bands that keep it alive. The Darkness was sort of an attempt, but other than their pretty good single, the CD kind of sucked ass.

Ahh, someone who remembers Animal Bag! While Luke did have dread locks, they were pretty far from RHCP. The music was somewhere between hair metal and progressive rock. City Song was n't really indicative of their sound.

I was a HUGE Bride fan. I was also a fan of Whitecross for about 6 months, until I discovered heavier metal like sixfeetdeep, Living Sacrifice & ZAO

We opened for Bride at a club outside of Pittsburgh a couple of years ago. I had heard of them forever, but had never listened to them, so I decided to try to catch up before we played. They had some decent stuff, even the post-hair stuff when they've tried to be grunge, modern-rock, rap-rock, etc. Still, Snakes in the PLayground was the pinnacle of their career. Never being a metal fan, I never really got into the bands you talk about, leaning more towards the early Tooth-n-Nail sound.

What club?

I live in Pittsburgh, I'm just curious.

It's been 6-7 years, so the memory is failing me. I can look back through the calendar when I get home. (Dorky me has kept a record of every show I've played.) It was just outside of Pittsburgh in a town called Brookville - Greenville or something. I remember it was an OLD theatre, converted to a live show venue. Apparently, the theatre was historic in some way, but once again, I can't remember. The club was non-alcoholic, and would have some Christian bands come through, but we played there one other time with a "secular" Pittsburgh ska band called the Tonics. (Which is why we got the call to play with Bride.) The show was scary. We were a punky-funky-reggea-jazz-rock band, and there were several hundred older biker types there to hear some heavy metal. I've never seen so many mullets in one place, and I also didn't realize Bride had such a cult following. It looked like it was gonna get ugly through the first couple of songs, as their was some pounding on the stage and "Bride" chants. Also got a "Do you do any Metallica?" "No." "Well get the Hell off the stage." Through sheer will and determination, we taught the old mullet-heads to lighten up and have a good time before the end off the set. Walking backstage after the set, proud of my accomplishment, I bump into notoriously grumpy lead-singer for Bride, Dale Thompson. He stops me, gives me the most intense point in the face, and says "Dude, you're an incredible bassist." I said thanks as calmly as possible, before running off to brag to my bandmates. But yeah, a really fun experience, and I also got to go to the Pittsburgh zoo which was pretty cool. I'll try to find the club name tonight, I'm curious if they are still running shows.

Ahhh, memories.

I myself prefer early Tooth and Nail, and early Solid State. One of my favorite CD's in High School was my "Songs from the Penalty Box" Samplers. Once I found Solid State, though, I was in heaven. Not so much anymore, though.

Yeah, I've moved on from that stuff too, but it certainly was a revelation when I found it.

DK - I still can't remember the name of the theatre, but I do remember that at least when the Christian groups were playing, it was called The Scarlet Chord.

Did that tune have a long drawn-out chorus of "I neeed you nowwwwwww... more than words can say, I need you noowwww (whoa-oh-oh)..I've got to find a way". Think it was used in a Subway ad about two years ago.

I know it's nitpicky, but bands like that aren't really "hair metal". I'd lump 'em with groups like Bad English, Air Supply, Loverboy, Nelson and Journey (or even late 38 Special, around 1989). While these bands did have guitars, drummers and long hair, they weren't "metal". It was more like generic "rock"-- sorta' like what Jem & The Holograms or the Misfits would've put out, had they been real.

(And yes, I mean the cartoon Misfits... not Jerry Only and Pals)

Yes, thats the song.

And I agree with your point, 100%.

Music is one of the hardest things to classify in the world. I don't group them together -- I just like em all.

<---Loses 10 Cool Points for correctly identifying that song.

"corporate rock"

I just call it "early 90's hairband". I choose not to put the Rock in there, because I like to include acts like Nelson, Alias, Bad English, etc. that were undoubtedly nothing but pop music.

Awesome pop music. :)