I've been doing more thinking lately about the wrestlers now and if they'll become future Hall of Famers, and what everyone else thinks. We've now seen everyone from Nikolai Volkoff to the Iron Sheik to Hulk Hogan to Tony Atlas to Bobby Heenan to Pete Rose being inudcted into the Hall of Fame. Who is wrestling now will become part of the Hall of Fame, according to the WWE. And because this is WWE, politics could come into play and any other backstage elements.

So, if this works out alright, I was thinking of may be doing a couple more polls just to see what everyone else thinks. I might also try a couple of people aren't HoFer yet, who might be considered HoFers, such as Randy Savage, Andy Kaufman, thse sort of people.

First one up:

John Cena - Will John Cena become a Hall of Famer?

Yes. If guys like HHH, Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels are considered HOF calibur then it'll be a breeze for him to get in. As I said in another thread he gets heat like few have done in this decade.

Hell yes. Years from now when we look back at the 2000's, John Cena is definitly going to be one of the highlights of this decade.

You really need five years of longevity to be a HOF'er. Brock Lesnar seemed to be on the right track, but he faded away in less than two years (right? Help me out on this one... facts aren't clear to me).

I don't really put much stock in the WWE's "Hall of Fame", anyways. Nikolai Volkov? Sure he was a memorable character, but that's like putting Darren Drozdov on the Broncos' Ring of Fame.

Lesnar debuted the night after Wrestlemania 18 and his final night was Wrestlemania 20. He was around for more or less just two years.

But in those two years he won three WWE Championships and main evented most of the pay-per-views he appeared on. That in itself is quite the feat. But I agree, a two year WWE career should not really be HOF worthy.

I was actually talking more the Observer HOF when I made my statements about Cena.

I think by the standards of both the WO and WWE HOF's, Cena is a lock for both of them.

You're crazy if you think Cena is getting anywhere near the WO HOF.

They put fucking Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels and HHH in and they have actively been negative draws during their big runs while Cena has not been. The WON HOF has so lowered the bar that due to internal consistency they have to let him in down the road.

Angle is in moreso because he has a legit background.

HHH is in because he's won the title more times than anyone for the most part (outside of Flair), was in one of the biggest drawing stables of all time (DX), has been wrestling for at least the last 12 years and has won the IC, Tag, etc etc.

HBK is in because he was one of if not the best worker in the WWF during his major time there. Plus, he took how many years off, returned to win the world title again, and has had successful feuds with PLENTY of people.

All three of them deserve to be there way before Cena ever does.....

Cena has not been a draw whatsoever for them. He showed strides, but nothing major.

Cena has not been a consistant main eventer for longer than a year.

He's had ZERO classic matches (only one of them I would even consider in this range and it was his match with JBL LAST Judgement Day PPV.) and even less classic feuds.

He's had horrible reigns with every title he's held and the Saturday Night's Main Event that was basically CENTERED around him, was one of if not the worst rated SNME of all time.

Um, DK?

Last I checked, that last SNME was mostly centered around HBK and the McMahons. The other big draw was supposed to be a match that Cena participated in, but it also featured Kurt Angle, Triple H, Rey Mysterio, and Randy Orton.

In my humble opinion, Cena has had two classic matches: against JBL at Judgment Day 2005, and against Triple H at Wrestlemania 22. I haven't watched all of Backlash yet, but I've heard many opinions say the triple threat main event was also outstanding.

What do you mean he hasn't been a consistent main eventer for over a year? He won the WWE Championship for the first time at Wrestlemania 21 back in April of last year, in Smackdown's main event. Even before winning the championship, he was basically the center point of Smackdown with his U.S. title runs getting considerable top spot time along with JBL's World title run.

I've already argued that Cena is a ratings draw, based on how his departure impacted Smackdown's ratings and the fact that once he found his unexpectededly awesome feud with Edge, Raw's ratings have been consistently higher than they were before Cena arrived.

If we were talking about Cena being inducted into a HOF now, I'd say you were crazy, but there is no reason to believe he won't continue performing at this level for years to come. When his career is over, or at least after he's been performing for as long as a Shawn Michaels or a Triple H, there is no reason to believe he won't be inducted.

Um Rowe?

The main match of the show was the hadicapped match that was centered AROUND Cena. That's why it was the opening match, it's generally considered the main event when it goes on first on a SNME.

The JBL match I would agree with. I'll be damned if the HHH/Cena match from Wrestlemania is a classic or anything above ***1/4.

His US title run was a joke. He lost it to Carlito and one it back for no reason. He didn't consistantly main event during that time anyway, as his feud with Christian/Jericho pushed that down the card and even now he's not really headlining RAW, DX and the McMahon's are.

Cena is NOT a ratings draw. He was showing signs of that during his initial run as everyone wanted him to get the title, and after he won it, he was declinining in popularity. More of the ratings shit had to do with Edge and the crash TV shit they were doing at the time. Plus, none of the Cena headlined PPV's have done exceedingly well.


[quote]If we were talking about Cena being inducted into a HOF now, I'd say you were crazy, but there is no reason to believe he won't continue performing at this level for years to come. When his career is over, or at least after he's been performing for as long as a Shawn Michaels or a Triple H, there is no reason to believe he won't be inducted.[quote]

There's no reason to believe he won't continue performing at what level? He is neither booed or cheered? That basically means he's a fucking lame duck. Guys won't consistantly stick around the business in a HOF capacity if they can't get out of LAME DUCK mode, which I don't know if Cena can. He's been hotter more recently because of his involvement with the ECW stuff.............which is dying down. Let's see how it keeps up over YEARS. Also, people tend to forget that Cena's not the new kid on the block. He's been around for about 7 years or so. So therefore, with his 7 year career would you consider him seriously for the HOF? Because I would sure take Angle's first 7 years compared to Cena's anyday........

Yes, I know that traditionally, the main event to SNME is the first match on the card. But it doesn't change the fact that the Shane/HBK street fight got considerably more hype for SNME than the handicap match did. Furthermore, like I said before, it's rediculous to blame Cena on the low ratings for that show when his match had FOUR other guys in it! Besides, since when do handicap matches draw? If the show had done a wonderful rating, everyone's attitude would be that Triple H and Kurt Angle were the ratings draws!

The Wrestlemania 22 main event was ****, IMHO. I say this because the match got the audience to come alive more than any other match in recent recollection. The audience was completely split between Triple H and Cena and they worked that crowd into a frenzy. When Cena makes Triple H submit at the end of the audience, the looks on some of the fans in the arena are so priceless: they cannot believe that Cena retained. To me, this is professional wrestling at it's very best, when a sport that's widely known to be staged can generate that kind of passionate reaction in 2006.

His U.S. title matches were frequent tv main events during that era. Even before he won the U.S. title, he was featured as a top guy on Smackdown, even if it was losing (very good) matches to Kurt Angle and The Undertaker.

The two Wrestlemania's that Cena main evented did better than expected buyrates. Cena's Judgment Day main event drew a significantly better buyrate than the previous year's event. Seriously, the only pay-per-view that Cena headlined that did poorly was last year's Unforgiven, and his opponent was the guy that everyone seems to think can draw without even trying: Kurt Angle.

Have you even been watching Raw in the past year? His first months on Raw he was getting monster ovations. Then, I'll admit, from about September until January he was getting mostly shitty reactions. Then something magical happened: he lost the title to Edge, and ever since he's been getting very LOUD mixed reactions from most crowds. It's impossible to say that no one is cheering for him when whenever the camera pans the crowd, there are pro Cena signs and fans wearing Cena merchandise. It's also impossible to ignore the boos, but I've come to notice that the majority of Cena's haters are against him for the same reason why others cheer for him. So either way, Cena is working the crowd and getting main event-level reactions. He belongs in his spot and I enjoy watching him every week because he (along with Edge) has been the true star of Raw for the past six months.

The HBK/McMahon's may have gotten more hype, but the handicap match was billed as the main event from the get go. I'm also not just blaming Cena, but it was HIS program that was the main focal point. They didn't do much cross breeding of brands so during the time they had Orton/Mysterio/Angle doing a three way feud on SD and they were doing the Cena/Trips stuff on RAW. Cena and Trips was the bigger program so the match focused more on what Cena/Trips were doing. Also, I wouldn't consider Kurt Angle/Triple H the draws there either so that's a moot point.

Okay, we have a difference of opinion on their match then. I'm not going to argue about someone's OPINION. But the reaction had a lot to do with who he was fighting. Now, I'm not one to stand up for Trips, but you know as well as I do that he was the one that was getting the crowd to step up like that moreso than Cena. Look at some of the reactions that Cena was getting at the time. He could only get heat against guys like Edge because crowds actually buy Edge's "scumbag" act. Which it is a good act though and it works. Then once they move Cena away from guys that can actually pull heat (Trips because of the "I'm a dickhead heel mentality, plus the fact that people hate him. Edge, because of the scumbag deal, and also RVD because of his alliance with ECW) he just floats in mediocrity. It's getting the crowds going for all the wrong reasons.

He was put in the position to be the "hip guy" on SD. He wasn't positioned over the main eventers and even though he may have main evented TV here and there, so have guys like Mark Henry and Matt Hardy. So it doesn't say too much.

Ahem. Cena didn't main event two Wrestlemania's. He main evented ONE. When he wrestled JBL it wasn't the main event. Also, I wouldn't say that Cena was the focal point of a lot of those shows.

Yes, he's been getting loud MIXED reactions. You just proved my point Rowe. I'm saying is that mixed reactions don't equal $$$. They pull out way more PPV now then they did years ago and that's for a reason. Because people used to order more PPV's. Now they just double up on the PPV's and get people to buy MORE of them. That way they can double dip the hardcore fans. So therefore, guys today aren't drawing half of what they seem to. JBL says that he was the WWE champion at the biggest drawing WM of all time (then WM20). Was he lying? No. But the thing is with all of the revenue from PPV and everywhere else is a lot higher than what they actually would have pulled at WM III (the real biggest drawing WM of all time) because of the differences in monetary value in the country. So therefore, inflation makes things look nice, but there IS a difference.

DK, I think in the case of John Cena, his mixed reactions do equal $$$. I honestly feel that (many of) the people who boo Cena at the arenas hate him for equally mark-ish reasons that the people do cheer for him have. I think last year, the boos were mainly because he was being given a copy and paste Austin-ish rip-off feud against Eric Bischoff and Kurt Angle, which hurt him more than anything else.

Plus, I think people's sentiments about Triple H at Wrestlemania 22 was "we used to hate you, but right now we're into you again." By not holding any championships, taking a smaller role in the shows, and wrestling like he used to, Triple H has regained favor from the smark, (and mark, thanks to DX) community. By Wrestlemania 22, I'd say both Cena and Triple H were tweeners, and it made for a very entertaining match up.

On a side note, DK, I've enjoyed our little debate. We should do this again sometime :)

I mentioned Volkoff because he's in the WWE HoF. Just to give a comparison about who is in it: everyone from Hogan to Volkoff, because of whatever reasons the WWE has decided.

Dude, mixed reactions don't equal money. PERIOD. There is only one tweener that ever drew and it was Stone Cold during the Attitude era in which everyone was a tweener at some point. Other than that name one guy EVER that got mixed reactions and drew money. There aren't any.

Hell fucking no. I'd argue why, but I missed the entire topic anyway, and my points have been made. He can't draw for shit, he's hated by everyone with a dick (including me, wise guy jokers), can't wrestle, and his two signature moves are named after a masturbation reference and telling someone fuck you. Wow, what a great wrestler, draw, and character.