Hi everyone,

ummm, I don't really know where to start, yes I do...

I've watched as I've grown up Star Trek, TNG and Voyager on BBC2 at 6pm on a Wednesday for a significant period of my life. Lately, it's been Sky One, which I love because something's been on all the time (usually).

Unfortunately, I never got into DS9 despite trying to watch it, it reminded me of a poor man's B5 (apologies all round for DS9 fans) and so it came a few years ago to Enterprise.

Now I am a heathen when it comes to this series, but I've found it completely inaccessible and the opening sequence is different, and different bad for me.

My question is to the knowledgeable fans (i.e. not me, but I would class you guys as such) like this programme?

I have tried twice to watch it, is it too late to try again, now that it's on it 3rd series on Sky (or is it 4th)?

Thanks :huh: :D

Shame on you for not watching DS9 Nick ;)

I'm sure everyone knows my view on B5 by now, but for the uninitiated, it's quite simply the best show created for television, Star Trek included, in any of it's guises.

Now, having said that, DS9 is still a wonderful show. Once you get past the fact that it's not B5, and isn't as good, the weight of expectation/comparison's lifted and you're left with a hell of a show. B5's my alltime favourite show; DS9 isn't far behind.

Enterprise, isn't a bad show. Neither is it a great show. It's average Trek, IMO, which makes it worse than TOS, TNG or DS9 but light years ahead of the godawful Voyager. Make of that what you will. If you're starting then ideally you should start from the beginning. Be warned, it's a slow start qualitywise, but it's still better than jumping right in at the deep end. Now, if you'd prefer to jump in where it starts picking up then I suggest you start with the season 2 finale, THE EXPANSE and work your way through season 3. It's better to start at the beginning, but you could more than likely get away with jumping in straight at that point. It's entirely up to you :)

Sky One have recently (May) concluded showing Season 3.

Do you know I absolutely love, love Voyager? eek, Sorry

Why did they change the opening credits of Enterprise? :)

I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can like Voyager, but I'll let that slide, we all have our weaknesses ;)

They originally went with the credits showing the show as ENTERPRISE because they wanted the show to stand on it's own two feet. With ratings going through the floor towards the backend of the second season, and with Berman/Braga having no way of countering bar the "gimmick" episodes, like the return of the Borg, they decided that perpaps people didn't know it was a Star Trek show afterall :rolleyes: Hence the show became STAR TREK ENTERPRISE. The theme tune also came in for a fair amount of criticism since debuting as well, as such they attempted to make this a little more contemporary and gave it a faster paced rock beat :rolleyes:

Now you know you are getting confused there - NEXT GENERATION is the best show ever created for tv!!! :thumbsup: :D

Tsk tsk tsk Ken. TNG isn't even the best Trek show around :P

I think you will find it is!!! :D :D :D :D :D

TNG is the Baywatch of the Star Trek franchise; popular beyond belief, but ultimately somewhat superficial ;)

and you say I speak sacralidge.....

Next Gen is the God of TV!!!!

I used to love TNG. It's the Beeb repeats that have done it. I've seen the damned show that many times over now, whenever I see it I can practically recite it from memory. With DS9, because there's a mix of arc and stand alone stories it's easier to enjoy upon repeat viewing.

There's an arc in DS9????

Very much so.

If you've not seen enough to know that Nick then you haven't seen as much as you need to mate ;)

DS9's arc is quite profoud over the latter seasons. Certain character arcs run through the pilot all the way through to the finale, but the primary story arc tentatively gets under way mid season 2 but kicks into full swing during the fourth/fifth seasons.

The arc is one of the major things that differs it from the other TREKS (that and the fact that it isnt a TREK at all - its stationary) and the one thing that lets it down becasue it is harder for a newcomer to join in the fun!!!

That's both a curse and a blessing though Ken. No doubt TPTB came to the conclusion that the people they wanted to watch DS9 probably already would do anyway, without having to go out there and grab them afresh. DS9 demanded attention, for which you, the viewer, was richly rewarded. The vast majority of the episodes you could watch without having to have a prior knowledge of the series. Yes it would help, but you could still enjoy the episode for what it was. Beyond that though, if you did have the background then you can add an extra layer of richness to the mix. DS9 worked on two levels, and worked pretty well.

Regarding it's static nature. All's I can say to this one is hurrah. This was the last time Trek was bold and actually tried something new. The plus point of making the show stationary was that there wouldn't be an "alien planet of the week" or any other number of cliches that had already been done on TOS and TNG. Instead the superb bank of writers were forced to write well. The characterisation on DS9 beats any of the other Treks hands down. There's an absolute myriad of characters and dynamics at work at any given time. I loved the TNG cast, I thought they were great, I really did, and still do to a large extent, but DS9 was just on a whole different level. Trek for me, at least in part, a large part, has always been about it's characters. DS9's strong character writing coupled with another favourite plot device of mine, the long-game story arc, made DS9 powerful television.

Whenever I argue Trek's strengths over the years, DS9 always features prominently in my argument.

But its a known fact that they introduced the defiant purely because of a way of relieving DS9 of its static nature and also to try and win back viewers.

(I read an article with one of the producers at the time who said it was for this reason)

Let me point out here that I am in no way against DS9 - I think its a great show it is STAR TREK after all I just dont think it is as good as the NEXT GEN thats all.

By the time the Defiant was introduced the characters were already established. The static nature wasn't all important at that point. They also knew it would be quite useful for the upcoming Dominion war. And if it had a positive effect on the ratings, so much the better :)

But you have to admit they did 2 things to boost the ratings

1 - the introduction of the defiant

2 - moving the character of WORF onto the spacestation

Both of these must have had a positive effect.

They cannot do anything like this with ENTERPRISE now can they? (although they are still supposed to be trying to find a way to bring KIRK into it???)

The introduction of the Defiant had a dual purpose. Firstly as previously mentioned to alleviate the static nature, secondly ratings would obviously have been in mind.

The introduction of Worf, was pure ratings. There wasn't really too much need for his character to move to DS9.

Both worked well, and served the story, but the introduction of the Defiant was the more important of the two.

Kirk won't appear in Enterprise. Negotiations broke down as soon as they started talking $. Apparently what they could offer and what he actually wanted was a long way apart.