Jack!!! The continuity is still screwy to me since I don't understand how the hell he got from the Hub to the Plass without passing Ianto, Tosh and Owen but at least the noise is explained with the "Doctor tracking" CPD. Jack's certainly less angsty than we saw him in Torchwood but he's still not the Jack we saw at the end of S1, and I think I'd be annoyed if they ignored the whole of Torchwood!Jack. Still flirting with everyone though, which brought a smile to my face because I could just hear the S1 exchange "Stop flirting", "I was just saying 'hello'", "For you that is flirting" osatl. And John Barrowman gets his name in the titles, did he have that for latter S1?
I found myself angry with the Doctor because of the way he treated Jack, he just didn't seem to care. It was obvious from the start that he knew about his invincibility but Jack was willing, and did, die for the Doctor and Rose on the Game Station. It's hardly his fault that he is how he is, and it turns out that the Doctor has known for a long time and that he knew that Rose did it. I know that 10 is darker, he's rude but not ginger, but just argh. I know they've had the talk while doing the saving the day thing but it'll be interesting to see how the 10/Jack dynamic goes.
The Rose references are back, but they are forgiven since it's needed considering the return of Jack. The flashbacks annoyed me but I understand that they are there for the casual viewer rather than those who have followed the show all along.
And the Master. I'd been spoiled that he would regenerate in this episode into the wonderful John Simm so I was expecting it. But yay. I really can't wait to see a Master/Doctor showdown in the finale.

Of course, the Doctor will have to get back to the 21st Century for that to happen :lol:

Why do I get the feeling he's going to have to repair Jack's "Space hopper"? :lmao:

I loved this episode, it was fabulous as just a "survival" story with the last humans in existance, but then, Derek Jacobi took it to another level altogether.

He was sweet. There had been rumours that he was actually a future doctor, but that was purely misdirection. I too had been spoiled about the regeneration, but I still cheered when it happened, not only because I love John Simm (Oooh, new voice! :rolleyes: Picking up bad habits from the Doctor I see :lol: ) but John Simm as the Master? :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Fabulous choice of casting, both for Jacobi and Simm. Jacobi did the personality switch perfectly, it was so subtle, yet so totally menacing, as he turned around to face Chadnoh (sp?) and the look of sheer unbridled contempt and evil in his eyes, left no doubt in anyones mind as to who he actually was.

Can't wait for next weeks episode.



Oh yeah, and Jack doing a half strip :lol: Gotta love it :naughty:

We thought that tonight would be the ideal time to catch up, so we watched everything from Daleks in Manhatten through to Utopia.

Although there have been widespread rumours and speculation of Simm/Saxon being The Master, I had no idea how Jacobi's character tonight factored into that, we managed to remain spoiler-free.

Fantastic episode, the next two should be something special :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: Squee, I was so excited when I realised that Derek Jacobi could potentially be the Master - couldn't have been anyone else, although for a brief minute I thought that maybe he would be the last Doctor. Derek Jacobi is a fabulous actor and he played it perfectly :thumbsup: shame that he regenerated so quickly, although I'm sure Simm will be fine.

Doesn't it make you wonder just what Jack actually did to make the Doctor so cold towards him ... I'm sure there is more than meets the eye.

From the way the Doctor was talking I thought that he ran away and abandoned Jack because he now couldn't die. iirc he said something like "you're wrong", but if it was actually something Jack had done then I'd be happier with the Doctor's behaviour towards him.

The thing is... The Doctor has a facade of being the "rebel" but when it comes to the fundamental laws of the universe, well, he's a good law abiding citizen.

Jack defies that. The Doctor has always said that "Everything has its time, and everything dies" Jack just turns that on its head and blows a big loud :p in its general direction.

I think the Doctor is more scared than anything else. Jack has turned all reckless now, that, for the most part, is never a good thing.

I was convinced he was going to be another Doctor - I seem to have avoided spoilage for once. :blink: :lol:

Thought Derek Jacobi was excellent as always - loved his comments in the Dr Who Confidential bit about how he always wanted to be in Dr Who, oslt. :thumbsup:

The last 15 mins of the ep were really edge of the seat stuff for me. :fear:

Yay ! Jack`s back ! :yahoo:

Ditto to Laura`s comments - I was expecting the Tardis to materialise in the Torchwood Hub, and was a bit surprised when the hand turned up - didn`t connect it with the rucksack at first, although I suppose he wouldn`t have taken sandwiches along with him. :ponder:

oookkkayyyy i am gonna be list goofs :snooty: :rolleyes:

1 the tardis landing outside torchwood when the noise make it sound like it was inside torchwood HQ

2 jack seem to arrive via the main entrance (unless they moved the secret exit :unsure: )

3 jack brought the doctor's hand (i am pretty sure it was still in the HQ during the last scene :unsure: )

:unsure: i am not big on doctor who villains history but is the master a (evil) time lord? :blink: :ponder: (fogwatch, regeneration,...) , if he is, shouldn't he have a tardis?

what's up with then doctor losing the tardis? :rolleyes: did it happen before or after he met the weeping angels? because if it's before, opsie!, if after, the doctor might have a security system to have the tardis back to him :ponder:

-------------------

jack is back :thumbsup: , :lol: to the way he travelled, doctor lack of interest kinda explain but :lmao: look bored while everyone worry about jack being dead, the discussion about jack not able to died kinda explain (so nothing can be done :ermm: )

martha annoyed about rose discussion (even cynic: oh she is a blond!) :rolleyes:

face of bo: you are not alone = yana (was he trying to warn the doctor, couldn't he give a clearer clue? :ermm: )

so they brought the all utopia story and we won't get to see it (or do we have to wait until next week)

well that's kinda explain how saxon knew about the doctor but if he knew he left the doctor at the end of the universe, why spying on him or is he worry that the doctor was gonna find a way back :unsure: and it seem martha will give a clue because she kinda recognize saxon voice

the doctor solving year of technical problem in 5 seconds (and after saying he didn't have a clue what the professor was talking about :rolleyes: )

:lmao: the doctor: we are at the end of the universe, we should go ................. let go out

quite a good episode, lots to tension, action, great cliffanger :thumbsup:

Excellent episode, especially as people have said the last 15 minutes, although it would have been interesting to find out exactly what 'Utopia' was although again it could be just another one of those things which is just left to the viewers imagination, it could be heaven for instance.

Yes, infact I had been spoiled also to Jacobi being the Master however I was interested in how it would be done, and the character being so nice as the professor and not sneering behind the Doctor's back I was wondering if at all Jacobi was infact The Master at all. But when the watch came out I thought it was genius. Of course The Master being the coward and selfish man that he is would rather hide than die for the Time Lords in the Time War. Continuity wise with the Paul McGann TV movie this doesn't seem to explain how The Master survived using all his regenerations and being supposedly killed at the end of the TV movie, although this may be answered later I doubt so due to the unexplained events surrounding the eighths doctor's regeneration.

Captain Jacks reappearance was also dealt with well although not matching up with Torchwood end scene, I suppose could be explained with hub set maybe in storage when they went to shoot the scenes for Doctor Who. Also filming outside The Millenium Centre is always happily encouraged by the Welsh Tourism Department :lol: . However the explaination for Jack being left behind does make sense to me. Something is wrong with Jack, the TARDIS tried to get away from him for instance. A man who cannot die also is a problem. Jack is a human, and the Doctor although he is always commenting on the species ability to survive and their wonder, he also comments on their ability for evil and murder as seen in numerous episodes such as when the Sycorak (Sp??) is blown up by the PM in The Christmas Invasion. I agree with Jamie here.....Jack although he may be 'a goodie' The Doctor may be afraid of Jack for him being human and in his current condition and also being something he cannot understand. And we always fear what we cannot understand......

I do get that but it was hardly Jack's fault that it happened to him, and he wasn't particularly comfortable with it in Torchwood (though it did come in very handy at times and will no doubt come in useful in the next couple of episodes as well :lol:), and the Doctor even said that he knows that Rose did it. It just doesn't seem particularly fair :(.

1. They seem to be putting that down to the hand, iirc Jack called it a Doctor detector or something.
2. That I also don't get either.
3. It wasn't. see the clip here.

In answer to Claire, yes, the Master is an old school Dr Who villain par excellence.

John Simm is officially the 6th person to play the character, so he is "Master No. Six" a neat little anagram of "Mister Saxon" :lol:

Oh, and Dan...

I'm sure the Master found a way to survive, he always did, and I'm sure he always will.

Maybe he was actually able to steal the body of another Timelord and hence gain all of that poor guy's regenerations. Then he had to go on the run during the Time War, and hence the use of the Chameleon Arch.

Cracking episode :thumbsup: Captain Jack, Derek Jacobi, John Simm, The Master great stuff. :thumbsup:

Loved all the banter between Jack & The Doctor :lol: but loved even more the more heartfelt scene between them in the radiation room ( DT & JB were great in this episode ). :thumbsup: I had assumed that The Doctor just didn’t know that Jack had been brought back to life and that is why he was left behind, bit surprised to find out he did know and while I can see the logic of his argument ( and I guess The Doctor is all about the logic ) I still don’t believe that he would of abandoned him like that.

The reveal of who the Professor really was was very well done in particular with the link back to the previous episodes with the watch and everything. I had read a rumour that Derek Jacobi was going to The Master but when I read that John Simm had been cast I thought it was just a rumour. John Simm looked like he was having a lot of fun at the end there and from what we’ve seen of him he looks like he’s going to an entertaining villain. :)

Regards the continuity between Torchwood and Doctor Who not matching up maybe we’re wrong to assume that the Tardis arriving in the Torchwood finale and the Tardis arriving in Cardiff in this episode are the same event, remember in last week's episode when the Doctor didn’t meet the hero until after the events of Blink had happened to her but before they had happened to him. I’m starting to confuse myself tbh :rolleyes: but maybe they’re different events, maybe the Jack in Doctor Who hasn’t yet started to work at Torchwood and it’s only after the events of this current Doctor Who adventure that he starts there. :ponder:

Just a theory and I have to admit that my argument is kinda flawed because I really can’t remember much of Torchwood, for instance in Torchwood did Jack know why he couldn’t die ? because he only found that out in this episode. I know he often alluded to The Doctor in Torchwood but I can’t really remember what he actually said about him. :shrug:

There was reference to the rift being opened though, which happened in the Torchwood finale, and there was also mention of Boom Town and the timeline of that seemed to tie in as well :shrug:

Well, there was a lot of rift activity in Torchwood season 1, and I'm assuming there will be in season 2 (and 3, and 4 etc) so the Tardis sensors could have been picking anything up.

WOW fantasic episode!

I do have one question keep mind I'm new to doctor who so don't laugh at me but who or what is The Marster? :stoopid:

I am right in thinking he hid his identity in a watch (just as the Doctor had done) and waited at the end universe and waited for the Doctor?

Thumbs up from me!

I really loved seeing Jack Harkness again, and as has been said in previous posts I loved the banter between him and the Doctor, it was almost like the Doctor was jealous of him. I didn't see the episdes with Chris Eccleston in so I wasn't sure how Rose had kept Jack from dying, I just knew she had from reading something on here. It was quite a nice scene between the Doctor and Jack on exactly how he was still alive. I do seem to recall in Torchwood him mentioning to Gwen that he can't die but he didn't know why.

Moving on to the Master. I really wasn't expecting that and when he produced the watch I had alsorts of theries in my head as to why he had it, all of them being wrong. I would never have worked out Mr Saxon had anything to do with master no.6, mainly as I had never heard of this Master character before, I have only been watching Dr Who properly since David Tennant took over, I did watch a few before him but there is only the Dalek episode I can remember.

Now as I haven't watched this episode via the tv (I had to aquire it) I wasn't given the trail to next week, does it look good? How is the Doctor and co going to get the Tardis back? And not forgetting they are now stuck in a room with the teeth guys about to break through.

Edit: Oh and something I forgot, poor Martha. Is the ghost of Rose Tyler ever going to leave? Just when things are going good, Rose's name gets brought back up again.

The Master is a Time Lord (like the Doctor) and is one of the big villains of the show. I don't know if he was waiting for the Doctor, him being stuck as Yana for that long didn't seem to have been his plan from his rant after the watch was opened.

I almost created a new topic for this and was going to call it "Master Class" but I thought better of it.


The history of the Master.....

The character known as The Master first appeared in the 1971 story "Terror of the Autons" played with gusto by the late great Roger Delgado.

A renegade Timelord, The Master wanted nothing more than to rule the Galaxy, but he was willing to start small, by just taking over our small corner of it. Needless to say, the Doctor found this aim to be totally objectionable, and foiled each and every plot that the Master's evil mind could concoct.

His last appearance with John Pertwees Doctor (and as portrayed by Roger Delgado) was in the 1972 story "Frontier in Space" in which the Master tried to play the Doctor and the Daleks against each other. A big mistake.


His next appearance after that was in the 1976 story "The Deadly Assasin" but by that time he had used up all of his regenerations, and was on the very brink of a final death. He looked it too.

Again, his plan was defeated by his now arch nemesis The Doctor. Everyone thought they had seen the last of him until his withered form was seen sneaking into his Tardis in the last scene.

He was next to be seen in the 1981 story "The Keeper of Traken" in which, his withered form was almost destroyed again, but he found a way of avoiding death, by stealing the body of a native to Traken, the scientist Tremas.

Once installed in Tremas' body, The Master began again, plotting plots, hatching planss and he was played by the actor Anthony Ainley, who played the role with as much relish as Roger Delgado did. He now looked like this.

He managed to maintain this form until the end of the classic series in 1989, and the character (and actor) made his final appearance in the story "Survival"

Then, the show was revived as a failed pilot for a BBC/FoxUS co-produced series, most fans will tell you it was always intended to be a TV movie, but it was a Pilot, and it crashed and burned stateside, so the series was never picked up. In this story we saw the Master being executed by the Daleks. But as we all know, you can't keep a good villain down, so his evil essence once again hijacked a body, this time of a paramedic played by Eric Roberts.

At the end of this story, the Master was thrown into the Eye of Harmony and was destroyed for the "final" time.

During the time between this American "Tv movie" and now the Master has been seen and heard in an animated adventure on the BBC website, in this adventure called "Scream of the Shalka" an android simulcrum of the Master was voiced by......... Wait for it...... Derek Jacobi

And so here we are, bang up to date and John Simm is The Master

Oh, and if you want to show your support, just go HERE
Watch the video, see how many of the hints you spotted.

Then cast your vote......

:lol: thank jamie

so he must have a "tardis", i mean to tranfer his identity in the fogwatch, he had to

but the professor say they found him naked and with just the fogwatch

would the master have a follower watching over him but hiding somewhere :ermm: :unsure: :ponder:

Unless that is just the memory that his Tardis gave him?

Remember, when the Doctor became Mr Smith, he vehemently believed that he had parents, and could "remember" bits about his childhood.

:ermm: :unsure:

just wonder what was the drumming about? was it the fogwatch or something else? (master related? :unsure: )

I really think it was the memories of the Master desperately trying to be heard, and force themselves into the fore.

The Fob Watch was simply a container for the Master's Timelord self, just as it was for the Doctor when he became Mr Smith. Its perception filter worked as effectively on the Master/Professor Yana, as it did on the Doctor as well, so I don't really think it could have any influence unless it was opened.

guess the professor didn't go visit the survivors because one of them could have end up hearing the master voice (like tim) ........ :unsure: :ponder:

Oh I'm sure of that too, The Master always finds a way but I would have rather have heard a line along the lines...

Doctor: 'but your supposed to be dead?'

The Master : 'Ah but not when you can steal regenerations'

I know thats poor, but I still hope a mention to the fact that The Doctor should infact believe that The Master is dead, or a word to show that he did believe otherwise.

When I heard The Face of Boe say he is not alone, I wonder whether infact it is a double bluff, as The Master was human. Therefore suggesting that Romana is also still alive in e-space, maybe after Martha has finished her adventures with The Doctor, he can find Romana. A long shot but I wouldn't mind to see her character again.

Who on earth is Romana? :blink:

Maybe Jamie can give a better description but she was a female time 'lady' who was The Doctor's companion between 1978-1971, she could regenerate and did so once between these years. She is one of my favourite companions with only Sarah Jane and maybe Rose ahead of her.

I'm hoping that they may bring her back (in a regenerated form) as a companion at some point. Although I doubt it will happen.

For more info check out here.

Maybe Romana is Martha's mother, and she used the chameleon arch too.


I've just realised, that could be used as a way of bringing the entire species back, they all used an arch as a means of escaping the Time War (or at least, the very end of it)

Of course, it wont happen, well, maybe once more, for the Rani :lol: If ever they feel the need for a villain to provide some T&A shots in the show :lol:

Jack Barrowman AND John Simm? Be still my beating heart!! :wub:

I had not seen ANY spoilers and I never read the opening credits so Jacobi and Simm were both suprises to me - and excellent ones at that! In fact, so excited I was to see John Simm that I screamed "oh my god its john simm" so loud that my finace and daughter both jumped a mile in the air (that'll teach me to have a few beers on a Sat afternoon - heh heh!!!) but, as usualy, I digress!!!

Excellent episodes, one of the best of the series. I am so excited about the last few episodes - although sad that the season is coming to an end again. the BBC should just cancel Eastenders for good and throw the whole budget into a 22 episode seasn, IMO!!

LOVED:
the banter with Jack and the Doctor
Martha getting pissed of with Rose "shes blonde? Typical" (oslt)
John Simm playing with his new voice as the master :lol:

Re the conituity bit - you dont know that Jack chasing down the Doctor was actually from the end of torchwood, as someone else has already mentioned. My impression atthe end of Torchwood was that the Doctor had heard Jack calling and come for him - oh well, maybe we will find out by the finale! I cant see them allowing such a flaw in the continuity myself.

The whole episode was great - wonder if we will see Utopia?


Was the blue alien played by Martha too or am I going mad?

:lol: no, we saw the actress without make up in the doctor who confidential :unsure:

imdb

Oi!

JB, JS AND Derek Jacobi I think you mean. :yahoo:

They have time for the whole who the Master is and how he's still around stuff next week imo :shrug:

And the week after for that matter :lol:

Ah but there will be far too much running around saving the world in ep13 for that much exposition ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if that was deliberately the point - in fact I don't remember any dialogue in Utopia referring back to Torchwood at all!

Which, to be honest, is exactly as it should be - it was said from the start Torchwood isn't for the family audience Doctor Who is aimed at, and thus any mention of Torchwood in Doctor Who would suggest that one is missing something by not seeing Torchwood (which the younger audience aren't supposed to see)....

Well obviously I was excited about DJ, but I dont fancy him and would not let him in my bed, never mind allow him to stay there when he is eating crisps!! :lmao:

You wouldn't have any choice.

For he is the Master, and you must obey!

Well, a Knight of the Realm at any rate, and bound to be too well bred to leave crumbs :shrug:

jack just said that he was staying in cardiff because of the riff , he was just waiting for the correct time related doctor ( :ermm: how did he know it was the right time? the hand was part of the doctor but would it have reacted to the doctor in general or to the body the doctor was in :unsure: )

I think it may have been more the fact that the Tardis had materialised to recharge that gave it away :unsure: