Was having big fun watching oodles of seroes 5 with a first-timer friend at the weekend. A physicist to boot, who has always had a lot of time for young Fred. Interestingly, his first impression of Illyria was that it had to happen, as Fred herself was going nowhere fast, and they'd run out of ideas for her way before the end.

Any takers?

I'm sure that's why it happened, however I would have liked the Wes/Fred thing to go for a few more episodes. I think Wes at the very least deserved that

they still had time to develop fred/wesley story

at least twice winifred show a dark/strong side (knocking out connor in season four and then planning the death of the science guy in season four), they could had write something on it too

:ponder:

I think that they had to do something different with Fred's character at that stage, maybe sooner, but i would've liked to see a little more Wes/Fred, but Joss would never want characters to be happy for too long and he knows what's best.

Ems :)

knox said that the release of illyria from the deep well was planned a few millenia ago and that he choose fred because she was worth it but what if jasmine had taken over the world (the angel co still under her influence), no wolfran and hart, knox probably still around but not anywhere fred. would illyria have come back or would have she been stuck in her stone box :lol: (the customs being happy would have probably let it enter the country without too much trouble) or would she have find a way to take over someone else?

and then what? jamisne and the rest of the world versus illyria :ponder: (two immortals)

Well, the derenged little twerp was hardly likely to say 'she rejected me and I saw an outside chance to make (someone who could look like) her VERY grateful to me..... ' I mean, suppose Fred had really fancied him and they'd got together- I think the second coming of Illyria might have had to wait a few milennia more.

knox met fred because angel took over wolfran and hart so he might have find someone else to use but would he have worship illyria as much if jasmine was around (but then demons and souless people were not under jasmine control so maybe they would have found an other way) :shrug: