Best finale to any series, anytime, anywhere.

Perfect in it's execution. I know some fans weren't happy with it, expecting instead an 'all guns blazing' finish. They should have known better. Given JMS' appreciation (and perhaps influence) by Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, this ending has a similar tone to that of Tolkien's saga, ending not with pitched battle, but instead the character moments.

I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. And in a manner of speaking, I guess the story does end with a bang afterall......:lol:

Much as I like this episode (and I really do like it, and believe it was absolutely necessary) I can't help shouting at the screen "Where's Bilbo?" :lol:

I seriously hope JMS paid royalties to Tolkein's estate :rolleyes: :lol:

Still, it's all very sad and there are some great character scenes within. For some reason it doesn't affect me as much as the previous episode(s) which were quite wonderful and had this incredible sense of old friends departing. In comparison I find this one just a tiny bit of a let down.

I think, as a finale, it works well, but not nearly as well for me as the conclusions to some of my other favourite series (possibly because I was more of a fan of them and had more invested in the characters). It didn't leave me with a huge lump in my throat in the way Sheridan and Delenn's departure from the station did. For me, the most poignant moments were in the prior episodes as the characters departed one by one (especially G'Kar's departure).

Not having seen all the movies (so I don't know if this was answered or not), or I may well be forgetting something, but it leaves me curious as to what happened to Lyta, whether she got what she wanted, whether she lifted Garibaldi's neural block and he in turn got his revenge on Bester (I take it from his general peace of mind in this episode that he did).

Still, a great conclusion to a wonderful series. :thumbsup:

Me too, I've never been struck with a "WOW" factor for the finale - it's always felt a bit anti-climactic.

I think Lyta's ultimate fate is mentioned in Crusade. The conclusion to the Lyta/Garibaldi/Bester story is written in the Psi-Corps trilogy of novels.

Ah, thanks James. Maybe you could fill me in on the outcome from the novels at some point please? :D

I'll be watching Crusade next :)

Which presumably means we could do with a Crusade rewatch board....

:whistling:

:rolleyes:

Walked right into that one :lol:

Steve, that means I'll have to read those novels first. So far I'm reliant on what Vic's told me, she HAS read them. From what I remember Garibaldi does eventually get his man, but I'm fairly sure it's not until after the events of Sleeping in Light.

Ah, that's very interesting...

considering how relaxed and, as I mentioned before, at peace with himself he seems to be in this episode. It must've taken longer than 2 years for Lyta to come back to him then, cos I would imagine that Garibaldi would've been straight after Bester as soon as the block was removed :ermm:


Thanks James :)

Surprised you haven't read those novels, though! :o ;)

Actually,

Thinking about it;

Crusade is set before Sleeping in Light, hence by the time of SiL Lyta is already dead. Given that, I'm not entirely sure how Garibaldi's block was removed. I assume, as you do, that once removed he'll be straight after Bester.

Of course, that doesn't mean he's going to catch him. Not for a while at any rate.

It's also fairly common knowledge that Bester is still alive during Crusade as well. He was due to appear in the next episode to have been filmed had the series not been cancelled :rolleyes:

Fairly sure that Lyta does remove the block before she dies, but it then takes Garibaldi years to finally track down Bester.

Had a listen to JMS's commentary yesterday. Pretty good, I thought, fairly interesting. I'll probably look at certain parts of the episode in a new light when I watch it again after listening to that :)

Also watched the s5 extras, with JMS confirming what you said about Bester, James. It seemed strange to me, following that as I did with The River of Souls, that they didn't use one of the movies to follow up the Bester/Garibaldi situation rather than the novels. I'm sure it would have made for far better viewing than either RoS or Thirdspace :ermm:

But that's a topic for another time (or board, in this case) :lol:

JMS held back the 'Telepath War'/'Garibaldi/Bester' stories in case he took B5 to the bigscreen. Since that's unlikely now it's often mooted as the basis for a potential mini series.

If you've already read the novels though it makes little difference, JMS has always stated that those particular novels are canon to the B5 storyline.

Now that I'd like to see. It's unlikely I'll ever read the novels, after all :)

one of the best finale i have ever seen

fantasticly written, a last meeting with friends (whatever happens to mollari's gift in the previous episode :ponder: )

the end of babylon 5 ( at the same time as sheridan last few days :( )

whatever happened to lyta/g kar

now is it worth it to get the films? :ponder:

(i will think of a top 10 sooner or later)

That's covered in the Centauri Prime trilogy of novels. Good luck with trying to find a copy of the third book though, they're exchanging hands for about £60 at the moment. :(

I think that's hinted at in the Psi Corps trilogy of novels, although I could be wrong. Lyta's fate is definitely referenced in Crusade, and G'Kar does turn up in Legend of the Rangers.

The movies are hit and miss, but worth getting. If you do get the R2 movies set, be warned, it doesn't include either The Gathering or In The Beginning, as both had been previously released. It also doesn't include Legend of the Rangers, but this was subsequently released on it's own. Then there's Crusade as well, which you should be able to pick up relatively cheap now.

:ermm: i bought the gathering DVD (to be watch anytime soon :lol: )

:ermm: the third book of the century prime is at £39.90 amazon :unsure:

The Gathering is the B5 pilot, it would ordinarily be best watched before the series itself, but you'll find it interesting anyway. It's not great, the writing's hit and miss, and the acting ranges from the adequate to the truly woeful in places, but it sets in motion many of the arcs that are prevalent throughout the show's run.

Re: The Centauri Prime Book III, you won't find it much cheaper than that, unless you're extremely fortunate. I think it was a (very) limited run. The rest are easy to pick up, but for some reason there aren't many copies of the final novel about.

The other trilogies; the Psi Corps one, and the Technomage one, are a lot easier to pick up, and are all considered canon to the B5 story. They're definitely worth checking out if you can get hold of them.

i knew i saw the pilot before but couldn't understand why it was not the season one episode one (explaining lyta connection to the vorlon ......... when she come back to babylon five)

From memory, the pilot was shot and aired about 12 months, if not longer, before the series actually began. By that point there'd been a major overhaul with the cast. Takashima was replaced with Ivanova, Dr Kyle was replaced by Franklin, Sakai later replaced Carolyn, All of the alien ambassadors remained but they were all assigned 'assistants'; Na'Toth, Vir and Lennier. Even Delenn went through a physical change of sorts, with the character played as quite androgenous in the pilot, but distinctly female in season one.

It was a strange decision not to include the pilot movie as part of the season one set. I know that stylistically, and narratively it doesn't really sit with season one, but they obviously weren't saving it to include in the R2 movies boxset so why not as an extra on the season one set? :shrug:

:ermm: and why use some shots from the pilot (confusing anyone who doesn't know about it) in one episode ( when lyta come back to B5 at the end of season two)

Possibly because at that stage The Gathering (along with In the Beginning) had already been released on DVD as standalone discs, and they were concerned about the possible backlash if they released this material (which a fair portion of fans had already purchased) as a freebie with Season 1?

It would explain why the Movie set was missing those episodes as well :)

Still - it's probably cheaper to get the R1 set anyway - not only is it encoded so the discs can be played on R2 players, but you get commentaries and things missing from the standalone releases :)

via wikipedia :shrug:

^^ I'm not entirely sure which version it is for the UK release, but I've got the original Region 1 double disc edition as mentioned above. It's actually a little better than the originally-aired version, but it's still not a fantastic movie.

Phillip, I suspect you're right on the reasoning behind not including the movie on the season 1 set, and I really should have got the R1 movies set, but I bought the region 2 edition on impulse. To be fair, I've still not watched them all.

Who does the commentaries on The Gathering and In the Beginning?

i don't think there is any commentary in the gathering DVD :ermm:

Not on the standalone release no, but for the Region 1 Movies boxset both In The Beginning and The Gathering were included (unlike the Region 2 release where they were omitted). Pretty sure there's commentary tracks on the R1 boxset versions isn't there Phillip?

According to the booklet, The Gathering has JMS and Production Designer John Iacovelli, while In the Beginning has JMS and Director Mike Vejar.

One of these days I'll actually listen to the things :)

Well, since 33% of the boxset involves River of Souls, I don't blame you :)

Hard to believe that they managed to get Martin Sheen to appear and then completely wasted him! :(

The B5 commentaries, especially on the cast ones are brilliant. I haven't listened to any of the movie commentaries yet, really should get around to it, might be interesting hearing them trying to defend RoS! :lol:

the gathering (i forgot quite a few things) : delenn make up :ermm: , g kar is nealy the same as in the serie (love sinclair "poisoning him" :lol: ) , mollari :rolleyes: , takashima was good but nowhere ivanova, i like doctor kyle but franklin would have been better while trying to stop "lyta" killing kosh :lol:

quiet a good pilot, the plot to introduce every race (their difference, their relation, ......) and to make us wonder about the vorlon (still according lyta "vision", sinclair and kosh shaked hands ..... i don't recall vorlon showing their hands :ponder: )

It's easy to see why some of the parts were recast inbetween the pilot and the series though. Tamlyn Tomita (Takashima) was just awful in The Gathering. People often accuse Michael O'Hare of being slightly wooden at times, but Tomita's performance in the pilot was about as bad as I ever saw it on B5.

The other thing about Takashima, had the character stayed, she would have been the character who betrayed Garibaldi and shot him at the end of season one. It would also have been revealed that she was responsible for shutting down the transport tube with Sinclair in it at the time of the attack on Kosh. That all went out of the window though when they recast the part and bought in Claudia Christian as Ivanova. Certain parts of Takashima's original story were then passed to Jack, Garibaldi's aide in Security.

The other thing that slightly narks me about the pilot is the fact that they re-dubbed a line uttered by Kosh when he first sees Sinclair, practically giving away one of the show's biggest secrets! :rolleyes:

That point aside, the special edition of The Gathering is actually better than the originally aired version.

:o and i thought she seemed trustworthy :lol: :ponder:

in the beginning

a very very very short scene with ivanova (but give a hint of her attitude), franklin :shrug: , sinclair (at the end), sheridan (we finally see how he win a battle against a minbari ship), well not much to add as the most of the scenes have been in the serie apart that mollari/g kar "helping" earth, the vorlon working behind the scene (nothing really knew there :rolleyes: )

mollari telling the tale :)

just we kinda know about the grey order of the minbari, the monarchy for century, but i don't think there was much scene/story about the quarry for the narns