I'm loving my new series 3 box set- so much better than I remembered for such a long way in- I THOUGHT I got the first uneasy feeling that the storyline was loosing it when Everyone reacted so grossly out-of-character to Wesley's rescuing the baby (note: rescuing).

Now I think my problem's with Holtz- when he is re-introduced as York-based, but with a down-south accent to accompany the German name. I think that's my personal credibility-gap right there- anyone else share the same niggle? :tear:

yeah cordie took angel side without checking wesley side of the story when the both were friends for more than 2 years.

i don't think they should have bring back groo ... good character but he was kinda annoying.

Nothing wrong with Holtz :D

Holtz the revenger :thumbsup:

Holtz the Yorkshireman makes me :mad:

Why couldn't he have been form Heidelburg instead- it's my roots that are being desecrated here- bad, bad characterisation.

holtz was ok .... he had his reason but then he kinda lost the line between good and bad .......... he was after angelus .... then he choose to hurt angel and then decide that his friend were in the wrong team so there was no bad in attacking them.

Not quibbling about what he did- in all its extremity- good juicy ghastliness... but in an otherwise well-cast and written Buffyverse, a very bad acting choice to characterise him as from York- then fail to deliver. Poor America, can't conceive of an England north of Watford (or possibly accents other than posh or cockney)- they blew it for me on accent grounds- I expected better than fakery from such a production team.

bad feeling around forgiving (the price/double or nothing)

Totally agree there Mehitabel.

Withthe resources available to the production team, surely they could have found a true Yorkshire and to carry out the part. Just looka t Emmerdale.... No seriously, Americans always pigeonhole Brits as stated as either posh or Cockney. That simply isn't the case.

There's an England north of Watford??? :blink: :blink: :huh:

(bum- where's the emoticon for steam coming from ears? YESSSSSSSSS!)

Just thinking, there are some quality Yorkshire actors with LA cred- Patrick Stewart (Huddersfield) and Sean Bean (Sheffield) come to mind... imagine either of them as a Holtz?

OK, I'll get there eventually and compare notes.

Maybe that's how Yorkshiremen sounded in the 19th century. ;)

Though, did they ever say he was an actual Yorkshireman? Maybe he was a Southerner, the son of a German immigrant, who had moved north recently. :) ;)

Hey Bill- see you're here too- any thoughts?

Hey there, way too many. ;)

Ok I was just about to mention things that had happened at the end of s4 and s5 which I just about realised would have been a big no no. :blush:

Ah- synchronicity-

Can you imagine a character introduced as Glasgow-based and not being performed Scots? Remembering that Angelus has a big down on tough Yorkshiremen makes e think ne's meant (despite the name) to be a local- don't think my forebears would have been electing Krauts (sorry- fellow-Europeans) as their Captains.- Mind you, he's also a Catholic- VERY improbable background for him- any they usually tried so hard with their flashbacks... niggle, niggle... I take this one personally, you see.

Though it doesn't bother me I can see what you're getting at. It's the little things that can raise a show from the crowd and usually don't take much to get right, a little forethought, or at least you would think so.

There are little things that annoy me, admittedly things that no one else seems to mind though.

Such as? (Catch your reply later, as heading off to the laundrette now)..

While my view is probably very unpopular I think the rot began to set in early in season 2. As much as I enjoyed the first season I just didn't gel with the second season and one of the biggest niggles which continued throughout the rest of Angel was Lorn. I hate him with a passion.

Changing Spike's sire from Angel to Dru.

That Angel didn't in fact mope about for a 100 years eating rats like they implied.

Buffy and the potentials positioning to fight the Turok Han.

I'll stop at three or people might start wondering why I ever watched it. ;)

Did you always hate him or was it when he started to become more of a regular?

I think I could have lived with him appearing once or twice but when Angel started going to him regularly I began to hate him.

Fair enough. I thought he was ok in s2 as a returning character but didn't like him that much when he became a regular, didn't think there was enough to him to warrant it.

I remember being so happy when they chopped his head off during the awful Pylea arc and then so gutted when he was alive.

:lol: Yeah, it's one of those charcter traits you just wish the person who thought it up, hadn't.

Exactly.

:yahoo: for Lorne! Big Host supporter here: he was wasted (and not on sea-breezes) in s. 4, and that particular rot (of underusing such an off-the-wall good-guy demon) really happened when he dwindled in a babysitter.

Agree that Groo was a total waste from beginning to end, and should not have been hauled back in to make up already excessive numbers.

I also hated the return of Groo in season 3, but luckily he wasn't in too many episodes, and of the ones he was in he didn't have too much screentime, so it didn't get to me that much.

And to Groo the off-screen blame for the ghastliness of the blonde Cordelia look- bad bad, very bad...

yeah lorne was great when he just appearing as semi regular and then he became baby sitter after the third destruction of his club and he kinda lost his interest or the reason he was there for (reading people ... see season five :whistling: )

One day I SHALL see season 5- be nice if channel 5 oblige anytime soon... as soon as I've started the new job it'll be box set series 4 for me, then I'll see how my memories of hearty dislike match up to joy of revisiting. (Do they do cheap box sets of s. 4, with discount for Jasminelessnessness...? Or, I'd pay DOUBLE for Connorlessness, honest guv.

I suppose things started to go off the rails a bit at the start of S3. Making Darla pregnant was probably not a good idea. The remarkable deus ex machina in S4 did not really make much sense as a workaround serving only to test ones credulity. sk

The return of Groo was a total cpd to prepare the viewers for Angel/Cordy.

definitly a :shit: look

it made her look a bit chubby

wrong face shape for that bouffant

I think the blonde hairstyle was chosen to give Cordelia an angelic look when she was taken up to heaven.

I know that Gentlemen prefer blondes, but God????
(Glad I got my highlights redunked last week, then.)

If there is any women on the planet who should remain long and dark then it has to be Charisma. Whichever 'stylist' persuaded her to try the blonde elfin look should be thrown into the Persian Gulf wearing concrete boots. sk

Totally :thumbsup:

I hate bleached hair :x

:fear: even Spike's?

Spike should have bleached his hair with sulphuric acid. ;)

You mean he didn't? Simple peroxide couldn't have done that all on its ownsome, surely?