I was watching First Contact last night, and while it was an excellent film, I couldn't help but notice how so many bad things which have been levelled at the Trek franchise have come from it.

1) The Picard and Data show: Post First Contact, it's obvious that the other five TNG characters have been forced to the back seat of the series, so that Picard and Data get central billing. In addition, Insurrection had a lot of influence from Patrick Stewart, while Nemesis was co-written by Brent Spiner. I should think it's only his prominence as a director that has meant Frakes gets second billing in the cast!

2 The Borg: In TNG, the Borg only appeared in 4 stories (albeit 6 episodes). They worked well as this: the unstoppable menace who, despite their many TNG appearances, were only defeated once. Suddenly, with First Contact (and their subsequant Voyager features), they were reduced to aliens of the week.

3 The Individuality of the Borg: Prior to First Contact, the Borg were relentless and unstoppable, and one of the things that contributed to this was that there was no face to them; no-one to square off to in a 'final confrontation'. The Borg Queen changed that, and suddenly from then on the Borg always had a spokesperson or some single being who could be focussed on as a bad guy. While Locutus did this in TNG, they assimilated Picard for his knowledge, and to be honest he was nothing more than an elevated drone. Plus, the crew got him back at the end, so his potential as a recurring enemy was diminished. (I wonder, had Stewart decided to quit, if they would have considered Locutus getting away at the end of BOBW, so that there was the possibility of Locutus's return?)

The Queen, however, suddenly changes that and gives the impression that she's always been there, and suddenly with her appearance (and subsequent Voyager appearances) that they felt the need to personify the Borg?

I'm sure there are many more, but that'll do for the moment :)

As I've recounted on many an occasion now, I'm in the minority where First Contact is concerned, in that I don't rate it that highly. On a first viewing it's entertaining, but the repeat value just isn't there IMO. Don't know why, it has the right ingredients, including a great performance from James Cromwell. For me, I think it just spelled the end of the Borg. Certainly the Borg has we had known them upto that point. For a race that evolved through adaptation, it amazes me how they always failed to adapt to the Federation.

Logically, if (as in BOBW) one Borg Cube only slightly, narrowly failed to assimilate Earth and bring both the Federation and the AQ in general to it's knees, then surely the next step would be to send an Armada of cubes. It's hardly like Starfleet would have been able to put up much of a defence.

If you look at it realistically, the Borg were effectively dead from that point on. I BORG was an entertaining sidestory, DESCENT was another sidestory which did nothing for me, and really it was FIRST CONTACT then where the Borg story picked up. I was hopeful that it would finally herald the return of the Borg as an uber-badass nemesis as in the old days of TNG. Sadly it was little more than a precursor to their pitiful existence in Voyager :(

I agree with pretty much everything you guys have said. Whilst I like and still enjoy First Contact it still seems to me like a reasonable tv 2-parter. And I think that's the problem I have with just about all of the Trek movies (with one notable exception), in that the stories, characters and settings have always seemed better suited to the hour - or 42 minute - format. Stretching things out, and trying to make the scenarios more accessible to a wider audience, just doesn't work in the franchise's favour. It's just my opinion of course.

The notable exception, again in my opinion, is The Wrath of Khan. It's a marvellous film, still to this day. Not only does it deal with a lot of very human issues - and deal with them very well - but it actually features a performance from William Shatner where he actually acts. :lol:

What comes after it is syptomatic of what we're talking about here. On television the death of Spock would have been dealt with very quickly. In the movies they wasted two films getting back to the situation they were in to start off with. It just doesn't work.

First Contact was the high point of the Next Gen films. If anything, TNGs touchy-feely approach worked even less well on the big screen than Kirk and co. It's not a bad film by any means, but it doesn't do justice to a series to which I was completely addicted. :(

To be honest the only TNG era movie that I've thoroughly enjoyed has been the first one, Generations. First Contact is just another failed attempt by the Borg to assimilate Earth, and again they send one ship :rolleyes:

With regards to the TOS movies however, I think I'd agree that TWOK is pretty much the best reflection of the series on the larger screen, although I have a soft spot for TUC as well. Both of those worked IMO. TMP was just a "look what we can do when we have a real budget" movie, TSFS was simply a continuation and in my ways a ruinment of the second movie. Four would have been the perfect 2-parter for the series itself, and TFF was frankly awful and barely deserves to be associated with Star Trek :(

I often wonder why William Shatner wrote a story about searching for God when all he would have had to do (in his mind anyway) was look in the mirror! :lol:

That was why the line in TUC about Kirk kissing himself being his lifelong ambition was so funny :D

One of these days I'm going to have to actually get the TOS films on DVD (shouldn't be too hard - they're always in the sale :)) - been an age since I watched them!

Plus there's something that's really tempting me to watch Nemesis :)

Resistance is not futile! Don't do it! :D

Well, we'll see what I'm feeling like after these exams :D

I watched Nemisis last night - don't put yourself through all that, believe me it's not worth it!

It's a complete rip off of The Wrath of Khan. Which was a complete rip off of Moby Dick... :lol:

"Don't be so vain!!"

You still can't beat "He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares Maelstrom and round Perdition's Flames before I give him up!" Ricardo Montalban out hamming the King of Ham, Mr Shatner :lol:

You are quite correct!!

I resisted getting the bare bones TOS movie releases. I've cherry picked the SE releases so far, I've got TMP, TSFS, TVH and TUC. Yes yes I know, TWOK is an imminent purchase..... ;)

The weak will perish..... :fear:

:lol:

nothing wrong with NEMESIS apart from the fact they took an hour out of it!!!

It's hard to see that hour making that much difference to be honest Ken. One of the major criticisms levelled against the movie was the uneven and at times painfully slow pacing. Adding in another 60 minutes would only have compounded that and could conceivably have made it worse.

It's too derivative for it's own good. Some of the alternative scenes would have also worked better than the ones they ended up going with. Not my favourite TNG movie I'm afraid :(

I've got to say I don't have that big a problem with Nemesis, but the parallels between it and TWOK are just too big to ignore.

Tagged as the TNG gang's "final" adventure I have to say that I expected more. After all the anticipation to have such a derivative movie, I don't know if I was more bored or annoyed :(