Some of the points I made in The Bar still stand. I prefer Sinclair's voiceover, and the new theme tune is awful. The first few bars do remind me of Final Fantasy music though. :lol:

After seeing Sheridan for the whole episode, I now quite like him. The cheesiness of his first scenes seem to pass. Still miss Sinclair though, however wooden he was. :lol: Taking the same route as the missing people from the pilot episode seemed to w**k quite well - "He was (as were the doctor and the telepath) suddenly transferred away from the station".

So a few more pieces of the puzzle of the minbari war. The minbari stopped the war because humans were taking their souls? :huh: Hmm, not sure what that's all about... :ermm: Assuming the darkness that Lennier was talking about at the end are the Shadows, including that Morden bloke.

All in all, not fantastic, but not a bad opener which sets the scene nicely for the coming season. But hurry up and wake from your coma, Garibaldi! And looking forward to seeing if anything else has changed for Delenn other than her hairstyle. :lol:

And the 2nd ep will have to wait til tomorrow, cos I'm about ready to collapse. :yawn:

Oh yeah, and finally, I kept meaning to mention even last season, that the animations seem to have got a lot better and more realistic (unless of course I've just got used to them :unsure:).

The computer effects did improve dramatically as the first season progressed (and by s3 are absolutely fantastic) you have to remember that B5 was the first show on tv to use CGI so to begin with they were learning what worked and what didn't.

Also meant to say, nice to see Robin Sachs, even though he did look rather odd as a Minbari. I noticed his name in the credits, and I thought "I'm sure that's Ethan Rayne", then I recognised his voice before I saw his face! :lol:

So what happened here - surely we should be getting more than one comment on this episode? :)

And I know I'm just as bad - although my excuse was that I had a load of new stuff sent to me to watch, and I didn't get the opportunity to squeeze B5 in :)

I got kind of sidetracked this last week. I'll be playing catchup over the weekend with all four episodes to bring myself back up to date.

Better add my comments before I forget and get too far ahead :)

I've tried to do this rewatch with as fresh a mind as possible even knowing what happens - sometimes the quality of the details you've forgotten can surprise you and thats the case here. Sheridan seemed a bit brash and you could see him putting peoples backs up not so much for what he was but for the shock at Sinclair's departure.

By the end of the episode though I thought he was well settled and the Sheridan I came to admire so much had started to emerg (silly dialogue included).

As I said about Legacies a general rule of thumb for me is any episode which delves into the Minbari (or indeed any of the other main men) usually spells quality to me and thats the case here. It still slightly rankles with me that a race so advanced can still put so much emphasis on religion but then again I don't think we ever get a clear definition of what deity they believe in and I have no problem with religion as just defined as a quest for the big Why? - its when it involves fairy stories and killing of non-believers that it goes too far.

Well, for those expecting the pace to let up a little following on from the backend of the Season 1 finale, guess again.

Right from the off this episode barely pauses for breath along the way. It wastes no time in introducing the new character of John Sheridan, superbly played by Bruce Boxleitner (Tron). The character comes in stark contrast to that of Sinclair as played by Michael O'Hare. Where O'Hare often played Sinclair as quite a sombre and solemn character, Boxleitner exudes enthusiasm and charisma into the character of Sheridan. The good luck speech highlights the difference, can you imagine MOH/Sinclair delivering that one as effectively as Sheridan ?? The characters themselves at first glance share some common ground. O'Hare has gone through the trauma of surviving the Battle of the Line, whereas Sheridan is still coming to terms with the loss of his wife. Whilst the weight of that burden often appeared to play on Sinclair's mind, here we have Sheridan who carries a similar burden better.

We get a lot of background on Sheridan here as well. WE find out firstly that he's the President's choice to run Babylon 5, before it's elaborated upon that he was the late President Santiago's first choice to replace Sinclair should the need arise. In light of that, does that mean that Clark supports his position ?? I guess considering that he could pretty much pick anyone he wanted he must do. We also learn that Sheridan played his part in the war against the Minbari as well, and whilst not on the Battle of the Line, scored Earth's only major victory in the war, taking down the Minbari flagship, a fact that no doubt will prove to be interesting in Sheridan's dealings with the Minbari on B5. Whereas Sinclair was specifically chosen by the Minbari, Sheridan's appointment was made without anykind of approval by the Minbari government. This again signals a shift in the relationship between Minbar and Earth. Sheridan discloses that the feeling back on Earth was that the Minbari held too much influence over an Earth installation. That worringly echoes anti-alien sentiments banded about for much of last season.

And what of Sinclair ?? We learn that he's been pulled back to Earth before being reassigned to the Minbari homeworld as Earth's first official Ambassador there. Again, requested specifically by the Minbari. It would seem that they still want to keep a close eye on him, which makes you wonder why given that they've now spilled the beans on why they surrendered at the Line. Perhaps Kalann's statement that the Grey Council never tell anyone the whole truth figues there.

With this story, and the revelation about the motivation behind the Minbari surrender at the Line, comes the first big payoff to one of the show's overriding mysteries throughout the first season, or is it ?? Sheridan seems not to completely buy it, and neither we are told does President Clark. From Lennier's comments towards the end of the episode (to the still cocooned Delenn) the Minbari are still holding back. The Minbari, as inferred in Season 1's Signs & Portents would appear to be aware of the Shadows to some degree, the extent of that knowledge however is yet to be determined.

An important clue, at this point, is to keep an eye on dates given in the show from now on, especially, the "1000 years ago" comments that will pop up from time to time. A lot of events just happen to tie in with that timeframe.

Beyond that the episode has the traditional humour, what with Ivanova's impromptu welcome aboard to Sheridan etc. We also get the first look at a new character, that of Warren Keffer. A character introduced under Warner Brothers' final directive to Joe regarding the show. After that he was basically allowed to do whatever he wanted. Here though, the Network felt that they needed a flyboy on the show. Enter Warren Keffer to give us a front line perspective. We also see Earheart's for the first time in the series. Corwin appears to be still aboard on the command deck and seems to get a few more lines, finally ousting the woman of shall we say questionable acting ability who frequented the command deck throughout the first season.

A couple of final notes; the opening narration makes reference to a great war, ok, sounds ominous to say the least. And, I notice that they f*cked up the opening credits to PoD. Originally when the show aired on PTEN they had the original photo of Delenn from season 1 on the credits so as to not give the game away, yet here, on the DVDs, she's there with a full head of hair. Way to spoil that surprise :rolleyes:

So, a cracking season premiere, one mystery seemingly answered, but maybe not completely, a new character added to the mix, and plenty of plot points bubbling along.

A good, if unspectacular, start. John Sheridan arrives after the mysterious (and somewhat swift) departure of Jeffery Sinclair. Did Joe deliberately give both commanders the same initials as himself? And Sheridan is not universally popular, being known as 'Starkiller@ to the Minbari. A possible future source of friction there.

I've always preferred MoH to BB since Sheridan is just that bit too much the all -American Hero. A bit too white of teeth, a bit too square of jaw, for me and it shows here. (I'd forgotten how young he looked)

The B story was OK if not great and it's resolution was somewhat obvious, I thought.

Still, what of Delenn, and of Garibaldi. Onto the next episode.

It's Boxleitner's enthusiasm that wins it for me. O'Hare too often just comes across as a miserable git. Part of that was down to the way the character was written, but I've seen MOH in roles outside of B5, and I'm not convinced he has any other style other than sombre.

That would explain it. Miserable old gittery is what I do best :lol:

It's boundless enthusiasm that wears me out

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think BB creates a character that (like a good wine) needs time to mature and develop. With only one major boo boo in the future, he turns out to be pretty damn good.

And no, I won't tell you what the boo boo is, If you want to know, you'll need to find a spoiler thread to ask me in :D

What'chu talkin' bout, Willis?



Taken straight from my DVD :)

Mine's the Region 1 copy, I presume yours is Region 2 ??

I kid you not, the opening credits to PoD on mine have Delenn post-Chrysalis :rolleyes:

That's what you get for being impatient :p

However, I find it very odd that the R1 set and the R2 set aren't identical - surely it would cost them more to make a new master? (PAL/NTSC issues aside).

Of course, what other little differences are there? I can remember the C4 broadcasts of Season 2 having a different title font used (they used the font used in S1, while the videos had the revised font on S2). Then there's the change on rank for one character (as far as I remember not changed on the R2 DVDs), as well as The Coming of Shadows having a different theme on the closing credits (which was on the DVDS)...

It bugged me, so here's the scan off my set;



Bloody Region 1 !!! :lol:

Upon closer inspection the booklet to my season 2 set also includes a Minbari cruiser that's upside down. It's on the front page for Christ's sake !! How can they miss that ?? :rolleyes:

So's mine :) Plus I got a French-language booklet in my set (thankfully MVC gave me a UK one as well :thumbsup: )

And this is terribly anal, but one thing I did notice was that on the R1 screengrab, the text looked darker as well. How interesting...

The whole tone of the show changed in that second season though didn't it. The screen grab you posted is a fair indication, fairly bright with some vibrant colour. In the second season, with the 'coming of shadows', they kind of toned everything down and things were generally just darker. It's an interesting point though, which it seems is encapsulated in those two screen grabs alone.

That's odd I just watched this and Delenn was shown as looking like she always has in the opening credits. EDIT as I see has been discussed further down the thread :D

Oh and "everythings gone straight to hell" ;)

I think we should a sweepstake from here on in and see who can get to the closest 10 how many times the word hell will come up in conversation.

Bonus points whenever it's Sheridan saying it :lol:

So I finally got around to starting to watch season 2 and this is a cracking episode to start the season with.

But first a couple of negatives, I dont like the new arrangement of the theme tune and I am not keen on either the opening titles or the new voiceover.

Small points however when it comes to watching the episode itself. Sheridan is introduced very well and seems to be played brillently by Bruce Boxleitner (apart from TRON I dont really know him). The comparrisons between his character and that of Sinclair (who I think was not got rid of in the most convincing of fashions) are numerous and Angel amongst others have already mentioned them.

In this and in episode 2 we are reminded of much of what went on towards the end of the last season and I have to say it looks like this one (season) could be a good one!!!

The thing to bear in mind with the different seasons is that the umbrella titles are usually quite indicative of where the season will go. Season 1 for example 'Signs & Portents' - was quite apt, as there was plenty of foreboding and foreshadowing. Season 2 is 'The Coming of Shadows', so take from that what you will ;)

For me, Season 2's the beginning of where B5 get's to be very special :thumbsup:

Am I the only preson areound here who prefers the S2 theme to the S1 version? :)

Of course, it's not as good as the S3/S4 versions :)

With the voiceover, hold off on any opnions just yet - when Boxleitner did them originally the CGI hadn't been completed so he was reading them blind - I believe it's 2x04 (A Distant Star) where they start to use a revised version.

I must admit that I don't like the s2 opening voiceover. O'Hare's version (no doubt due to his perennial sombreness :lol: ) carries a hefty dramatic weight, imo, and there's something about the way he says "The year is 2258, the name of the place is Babylon 5" at the end of it, with the accompanying crescendo in the music, that makes me crank the sound up every time :thumbsup: Boxleitner's voiceover just doesn't have that, it's a bit weak. I don't mind the new arrangement of the music, though :)

Much like Neil said earlier in the thread, I didn't really notice before the way Sheridan puts people's backs up during this episode but, because I watched it so soon after Chrysalis I found it very noticeable this time around, and quite liked that aspect of it. After watching s1 this time around I find myself more disappointed by O'Hare's departure, and so - like the crew - I was a bit rankled at Boxleitner's arrival. Too many teeth, it's not right :lol:

Still, he settles in pretty quickly, after the obligatory use of the word "hell" and a few cheesy grins he's off and running. I like the way Sheridan's arrival causes upset with the Minbari. Wasn't Luke Skywalker originally supposed to be Starkiller? :unsure: Anyway, I really enjoyed the action as both sides launched fighters, the escalation of tension was very good (practice for later in the series perhaps? :lol: ), and the way Sheridan figures it out is nicely handled. I also love the Minbari's words at the conclusion to the Trigati situation:

"Perhaps to you this was a tactical problem to be solved. For us, this has been a great sorrow. The crew of the Trigati were heroes to many of our people. Their death will be mourned, and your name will be remembered."

:fear:

I also like that it gives Sheridan moment to question the reasons for him being assigned to Babylon 5, or even if he should be there at all, after what Hedron (sp?) says to him:

"If there is a doom on this station, it is because you brought it here."

I think the scene where Lennier reveals to Sheridan why the Minbari stopped the war is a little heavy-handed but unavoidable, in that the Sinclair plotlines had to be moved to one side to make way for Sheridan. It would have been nice to see how that was originally supposed to play out, over several episodes.

The visual quality of the series is ramped up dramatically from the off. It's a lot darker and yet there is a lot more colour in the picture. I love the new views of the garden from Sheridan's office etc :thumbsup:

All in all, I think this is a cracking episode, a great start to the season that is refreshingly not bogged down with exposition restating the series' themes :thumbsup:

iirc the recording of Boxleitner's voice over used in the early eps of the season was quite rushed and done before he'd really got into the swing of things and was replaced by a much meatier version for later eps