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Title: 4x07 The Forge (1 Of 3)


Crichton Kicks - November 6, 2004 04:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Terrorists will reportedly cause havoc on Vulcan in a three-episode mini-arc on Star Trek: Enterprise next season.

Sources have told TrekWeb that in "The Forge", the first of the Vulcan installments, a "Federation embassy" on Vulcan is bombed, killing a character named "Ambassador Forrest" whom TrekWeb speculates may be Admiral Forrest in a new capacity or a relative of his. (The United Federation of Planets may not exist as such - executive producer Manny Coto said recently that this season will likely lead toward such an event.)

As a result of this assassination, Archer goes to Vulcan to investigate and is led into the Vulcan desert by T'Fon, a military-style Vulcan investigator working for the V'Shar - the Vulcan High Command's security wing. Evidence suggests the involvement of a religious cult, the Syrrans, whose leader is believed to have found the remains of Surak, the philosopher of Vulcan logic. A Kohlinar master, Arev, offers to guide Archer to the Syrrans.

Some details of this storyline parallel comments Coto has made about his plans for the Vulcans. As previously reported, Coto has wanted to use the differences between original series Vulcans and Vulcans as seen on Enterprise as a springboard to exploring Vulcan evolution. He had said, "We’re actually developing that story now and it’s turning into this great, really fascinating Lawrence of Arabia tale with T’Pol and Archer in the desert to go and find these Vulcans who are traitors."

ken1701e - November 21, 2004 02:55 PM (GMT)
A very very interesting opener to a new 3 part adventure for the crew of the ENTERPRISE. It offers a fascinating insight into the Vulcans of the time period and has various references to what we already know from previous series.

I thought the episode was very well acted, directed and written and thought it continued what so far has been a very excellent season (but then I know there are some people who think I am bias about it).

Definately the best hour of tv I have watched all week and cannot now wait until next week and its continuation.

Phillip Culley - December 12, 2004 11:14 PM (GMT)
This was on the whole quite disappointing - again it seems they're trying to shoe-end in as many continuity references as they can into this series (today, T'Pol had a pet Shelat, just like Spock! What are the chances...)

It seems to be an interesting attempt to tie in the Vulcans we all know with the Bulcans in Enterprise - and it'll be interesting to see if they pull it off.

However, it was nice to see a small Six Feet Under reunion :)

Crichton Kicks - December 12, 2004 11:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 12 2004, 11:14 PM)
(today, T'Pol had a pet Shelat, just like Spock! What are the chances...)

To be fair, if it's the Vulcan equivalent of a cat or dog, probably quite good ;)

Phillip Culley - December 12, 2004 11:56 PM (GMT)
Well, I assumed that much :)

However it would have felt better for her to have said something like 'a friend had one' so it didn't have that niggling feeling that it was 'just like Spock' :)

Crichton Kicks - December 12, 2004 11:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 12 2004, 11:56 PM)
Well, I assumed that much :)

However it would have felt better for her to have said something like 'a friend had one' so it didn't have that niggling feeling that it was 'just like Spock' :)

It could have been worse, had it turned out that her dear friend Spook had one.... :lol:

Phillip Culley - December 13, 2004 12:04 AM (GMT)
Don't give them ideas :D

Crichton Kicks - December 13, 2004 12:17 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 13 2004, 12:04 AM)
Don't give them ideas :D

One of the funniest parts of Leonard Nimoy's I AM SPOCK is the bit where he goes into detail about the alternative names that they came up with for Spock. The only things they were sure of were that it should be a 5 letter name, begin with S and end in K.

Que, Spack, Spook, Spunk and an assortment of other anagrams :rolleyes:

ken1701e - December 13, 2004 11:40 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 13 2004, 01:14 AM)
This was on the whole quite disappointing - again it seems they're trying to shoe-end in as many continuity references as they can into this series (today, T'Pol had a pet Shelat, just like Spock! What are the chances...)

It seems to be an interesting attempt to tie in the Vulcans we all know with the Bulcans in Enterprise - and it'll be interesting to see if they pull it off.

However, it was nice to see a small Six Feet Under reunion :)

I am sorry I dont see how you can be disapointed with this, I think on the whole this 3 episode mini arc has been some of the best trek since NEXT GEN finished.

Phillip Culley - December 13, 2004 01:24 PM (GMT)
I can be easily disappointed with this tripe.

I can't see how come people say each and every episode of Enterprise is excellent, when it's quite obvious they're not - and the ratings say so too!


ken1701e - December 13, 2004 07:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 13 2004, 03:24 PM)
I can be easily disappointed with this tripe.

I can't see how come people say each and every episode of Enterprise is excellent, when it's quite obvious they're not - and the ratings say so too!

ratings dont mean a diddly squat.

People have left startrek in droves - fact - and I doubt anything will bring them back, so even if it was 100% perfect tv the ratings are not going to get better overnight now are they.

After all EASTENDERS and CORRONATION STREET are the highest rating programmes in this country does that mean they are the best things made in this country?

I seriously think not!!!!

Phillip Culley - December 13, 2004 07:50 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ken1701e @ Dec 13 2004, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 13 2004, 03:24 PM)
I can be easily disappointed with this tripe.

I can't see how come people say each and every episode of Enterprise is excellent, when it's quite obvious they're not - and the ratings say so too!

ratings dont mean a diddly squat.

People have left startrek in droves - fact - and I doubt anything will bring them back, so even if it was 100% perfect tv the ratings are not going to get better overnight now are they.

After all EASTENDERS and CORRONATION STREET are the highest rating programmes in this country does that mean they are the best things made in this country?

I seriously think not!!!!

Ah, but the highest rated shows in the US include Lost and the CSI franchise - and these do represent the best of US TV :)

ken1701e - December 13, 2004 07:53 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 13 2004, 09:50 PM)
QUOTE (ken1701e @ Dec 13 2004, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE (Phillip Culley @ Dec 13 2004, 03:24 PM)
I can be easily disappointed with this tripe.

I can't see how come people say each and every episode of Enterprise is excellent, when it's quite obvious they're not - and the ratings say so too!

ratings dont mean a diddly squat.

People have left startrek in droves - fact - and I doubt anything will bring them back, so even if it was 100% perfect tv the ratings are not going to get better overnight now are they.

After all EASTENDERS and CORRONATION STREET are the highest rating programmes in this country does that mean they are the best things made in this country?

I seriously think not!!!!

Ah, but the highest rated shows in the US include Lost and the CSI franchise - and these do represent the best of US TV :)

cannot comment on that as I havent seen either of those shows.

I am told by various people that the CSI francise is good though.

Crichton Kicks - December 13, 2004 09:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ken1701e @ Dec 13 2004, 07:25 PM)
After all EASTENDERS and CORRONATION STREET are the highest rating programmes in this country does that mean they are the best things made in this country?

That's a flawed analogy. You can only compare on a like for like basis.

Comparing SF with Soap is never a good idea. Instead it's better to compare and contrast numbers for the same genres.

Take a look at Enterprise with it's numbers absolutely going through the floor, now contrast that with Galactica which set a new record for The Sci-Fi Channel back in December last year. Then you have both SG1 and SGA, the former setting a new Sci-Fi Channel record yet again, the latter smashing it the following week. Then there's The 4400 which destroyed The USA Network's previous record earlier this year.

People have this idea that SF's on the wane, hoping that in some way this will mask Enterprise's lacklustre performance. All the shows above are continuin got prove that the audience is still there, they're just waiting for quality to latch onto.

ken1701e - December 13, 2004 11:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Angel @ Dec 13 2004, 11:39 PM)
QUOTE (ken1701e @ Dec 13 2004, 07:25 PM)
After all EASTENDERS and CORRONATION STREET are the highest rating programmes in this country does that mean they are the best things made in this country?

That's a flawed analogy. You can only compare on a like for like basis.

Comparing SF with Soap is never a good idea. Instead it's better to compare and contrast numbers for the same genres.

Take a look at Enterprise with it's numbers absolutely going through the floor, now contrast that with Galactica which set a new record for The Sci-Fi Channel back in December last year. Then you have both SG1 and SGA, the former setting a new Sci-Fi Channel record yet again, the latter smashing it the following week. Then there's The 4400 which destroyed The USA Network's previous record earlier this year.

People have this idea that SF's on the wane, hoping that in some way this will mask Enterprise's lacklustre performance. All the shows above are continuin got prove that the audience is still there, they're just waiting for quality to latch onto.

No I was trying to point out that great ratings do not necessarily mean quality programming. A lot of the biggest shows in this country are some of the most poorly made, piles of poo that you are ever likely to see.

However, I take your point that you should compare ratings within genres and not mix and match as I might of suggested.

Crichton Kicks - December 13, 2004 11:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ken1701e @ Dec 13 2004, 11:28 PM)
QUOTE (Angel @ Dec 13 2004, 11:39 PM)
QUOTE (ken1701e @ Dec 13 2004, 07:25 PM)
After all EASTENDERS and CORRONATION STREET are the highest rating programmes in this country does that mean they are the best things made in this country?

That's a flawed analogy. You can only compare on a like for like basis.

Comparing SF with Soap is never a good idea. Instead it's better to compare and contrast numbers for the same genres.

Take a look at Enterprise with it's numbers absolutely going through the floor, now contrast that with Galactica which set a new record for The Sci-Fi Channel back in December last year. Then you have both SG1 and SGA, the former setting a new Sci-Fi Channel record yet again, the latter smashing it the following week. Then there's The 4400 which destroyed The USA Network's previous record earlier this year.

People have this idea that SF's on the wane, hoping that in some way this will mask Enterprise's lacklustre performance. All the shows above are continuin got prove that the audience is still there, they're just waiting for quality to latch onto.

No I was trying to point out that great ratings do not necessarily mean quality programming. A lot of the biggest shows in this country are some of the most poorly made, piles of poo that you are ever likely to see.

However, I take your point that you should compare ratings within genres and not mix and match as I might of suggested.

If you take the assumption that Ratings = Quality carte blanche then the best TV Show ever to see the light of day would be Baywatch, which might not be far from the truth, but still..... :lol:

Hovis - April 20, 2005 09:59 PM (GMT)
Well, another enjoyable episode. I'm fully taking on board Phillip's comments again, about the continuity. It is irritating, to a certain extent, although it's somewhat inevitable given the fact the show's future was in doubt. Surely, despite all the optimistic noises made by cast and crew about the show, it must have been obvious that cancellation was in the offing. Hence the need to get all the continuity 'fanwank' in (that word is growing on me Phillip... not sure whether thats good or bad :D ). Also, there are a lot of loose-ends that need tying. With those conflicting pressures, there's a lot going on. I'm sure that had Enterprise been guaranteed a further four seasons, and the show been allowed to progress at it's own pace, then the season four we would have had would have been radically different to the one we've been enjoying (or not.)

As I said, I enjoyed this one. This is a story that I wanted to see told... how did the Vulcans evolve from the paranoid folks we see into the Vulcans we know and love from the later timeline? It's clear that the sect that Archer and T'Pol are looking for get the upper hand in time, as the Vulcans we are familiar with have the same attitudes and outlook.

The demise of Forrest was a surprise, but it was a pleasure to see more of a focus on Serval as I'm beginning to like him more the more we see of him. And I assume the T'Pau that is mentioned is the same character we meet in TOS? The Vulcan political shenanigans is in no way as rivetting as I found the Bajorans on DS9, but is still interesting nonetheless.

An interesting start to this 3 parter, and I'm looking forward to next weeks episode.

Andrew (HM) :yahoo:

Number Six - April 21, 2005 12:04 PM (GMT)
Once again I enjoyed this episode. OK there are nods to earlier stuff but I'm not really bothered by that so much. I got the T'Pau bit but the pet connection I never would have got.

Bit of a shock to see Forrest get killed though.




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