A sort of "split personality" episode, this.

I like the Ivanova elements. We learn a bit more about her as a person, about her family, about her beliefs, about what's shaped her into the person she is. Ivanova is revealed as a real person with a genuine, credible past - a past she may prefer to escape from, but which has nonetheless made her who she is. This part of the episode was good stuff. I like Theodore Bikel in anything, and his appearance here was a joy.

The other bits? Meh. Pretty standard fare, done well enough but nothing worth writing home about.

A decent stand alone episode, with things to enjoy and things to just gloss over while waiting for the next installment. ;)

I think that's the first time I've ever seen the word 'decent' linked to TKO :)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I am sorry if this upsets any of you but I found this episode to be completly boring!!!! Yes it was slightly interesting to know that religion and sport both still exist in the time of B5 but to be honest I didnt care what happened to Smith and I found Commander Ivanova's story just as dull.

Maybe the episode needed some imput from G'Kar or Londo I dont know but I think if I had tuned into this when it was first broadcast it would have been the first and last episode of B5 I would have ever watched.

When you compare it to the episode that went before, I am sorry but even NEXT GEN season 2 was better than this. (and anyone who knows me knows what I thought to that season).

I only hope the next episode is better!!!!

Hey, just going for the polite approach. :lol:

The Ivanova bits are all that keep my attention where "TKO" is concerned. ;) Otherwise... :sleeping:

A frustrating episode this one;

On the one hand, it has a rather decent B story with Ivanova eventually sitting Shiva for her departed Father. Stark contrast here with normal Trek continuity where a departed colleague/relative is usually forgotten about two episodes later.

Working against it though is one of the worst A stories of the series. Who sat there and thought this would be a good idea; say let's do Bloodsport/Kickboxer on B5 !! It's a bad idea in concept and it's poor onscreen to boot.

After Believers this has been the only other completely standalone episode so far, where there's not even a hint at the larger encompassing arc.

On the positive side, you could praise the guest stars, Theodore Bikel and the late Greg McKinney Another stricken down by the B5 curse). Bikel's was another wasted performance, where McKinney at least turned in a decent performance in a wretched role. He bounced of Garibaldi and vice versa quite well. Other than that there was some decent backstory on Ivanova; not only did she lose her Mother, but Brother in the Minbari war as well. She also gets a few decent scenes with MoH/Sinclair as well. I found the Shiva scenes the most interesting of the episode not surprisingly, and the final scene where she comes to terms with her loss were deserving of a much better episode. Which just makes the A story that much worse.

So, a complete mismatch of plots, with a superior B story paying the price for a A story that never has any real tension, the viewer knowing exactly how it's going to end, and in truth, it's more like a Trek plot; the Aliens begrudging at first but eventually won over by the brave earthling :rolleyes:

Dull.

It's also worth noting that this one was originally not aired by C4 in the early evening timeslot. It eventually aired in a late night slot.

A final piece of trivia, when Ivanova's in her quarters reading her book laughing to herself at the beginning, you might want to take a look at the front of the book. Apparently written by one Harlan Ellison :lol:

Not that bad imo - simplistic and a bit dull but nothing terrible. I could repeat my comments about eps without the ambassadors being less interesting of course :)

The fact that I watched this at the same time as flicking around reading and posting on message boards tells much about what I thought about it on the whole. It wasn't terribly bad, but just not worthy of full attention. Again, the Ivanova plot far more interesting than the fighting plot, which was rather predictable to say the least. :)

The one thing I've come to love about B5 is that for every bad episode, there's almost always something to redeem it. It can be as minor as Sinclair's speech about loving space in 'Infection', or something as substantial as Ivanova's sitting shiva in this episode.

As has been mentioned before, it's nice to see the death of someone having an actial effect on someone, and at the same time it's nice to see other religions getting a sympathetic treatment on screen.

Oh, and there was some crap about wrestling, and an attempt at an anti-racism message that didn't work that well, but that's irrelevant :)

Pretty much with everyone else here. The Ivanova story was good and at least people grieve over death in B5. Theodore Bikel is always watchable (wasn'r he Worf's adopted father?) though at time I thought he was about to let a few "Oy Vay"s slip out.

The main plot was pretty poor and I was depressed that in 2258 they're still having to put with Kung Fu fighting.

I'm going to admit... I haven't actually rewatched this episode. I'd completely forgotten how dull that A story was. And I'm afraid I want to get straight onto the next one, as I think I'll have a bit to say on that one.

Phillip is spot on. As is everyone else. (A shame Ken didn't enjoy it too, but maybe I'm thinking about it with the hindsight of seeing to the end of season 4?) But this is the episode where I really began to fall in love with Ivanova as a character. She has such an intriguing back story. I very much enjoyed watching Theodore Bikel as Nikolai Rozhenko on ST:TNG, and his appearances as Ivanova sr were too few. I found this episode quite moving. As James says, it was a pity this thread didn't have something more substantial to bounce off as an A story.

Take care,

Andrew (HM) :upside:

Well, (as Phillip's probably guessed :) ) this episode's one which everyone classes as "one of the worst eps of the series", yet I watch and think "Really? Didn't seem THAT bad to me...". Though that may be because B5 does such a great job that it's worst episodes even look alright. :)

The B-story was the redeeming bit - and I will say that it's nice to religion still has it's place (as was already shown in a past episode with the "long line of Earth's religions", though this time goes a bit deeper). Makes an interesting change to Trek's style of "there is no religion", which does irritate me at times.

Pretty much everything else is already said. Except that I found the B-story barely passable rather than bad. :P I was also holding myself back from jumping onto the computer in the middle of the episode... :D

A-story, surely? :P

Darn, bugger and blast!

Yeah, I meant A-Story. My bad. :unsure:

All the Mutai stuff is watchable but dull.

Outshone by the Ivanova thread, even that isn't that great but it does expand on Ivanova's character, and that can only be a good thing :)

Not a lot to say about this one, it's all been said already. It did have me nodding off a bit, first time that's really happened during this rewatch :lol:

Channel 4 bumped this into a late Saturday night slot when it first aired, didn't they? Just shows how times have changed cos it all seems a bit tame by today's standards, and there's not a lot here that you wouldn't see in an average episode of Buffy or Angel.

I noticed over on the Lurker's Guide that Walker Smith was Sugar Ray Robinson's real name, and that Greg McKinney passed away on April 12th 1998, while Sugar Ray Robinson died on April 12th 1989. Not sure if that's true, but if it is it's a bit freaky :fear:

The bit where Ivanova starts giggling whilst reading a Harlan Ellison book did make me laugh. There's nothing like a bit of self-promotion :lol: