I found this episode to be interesting in that it provided snippets of background information of several of the characters. The storyline itself was ok, except it did seem that they were trying to cram too much into one episode. The acting was 'wooden' in places in particular Commander Sinclair (didnt notice that in the pilot) and the new first officer Commander Ivanova. However I enjoyed the continuing conflict between the Narn and the Centauri and I suspect that Garibaldi is going to become one of my favourite characters in this series - he cannot be all bad he likes Daffy Duck!!!!

Not as good as the pilot, as a STAR TREK fan I would have been disapointed if it had been an episode of that series, 6 out of 10.

They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass.
Who? The Narn or the Centauri?
Yes.

One of my favourite conversations in the entire series. :lol:

*** leaves to actually watch episode ***

I'll be watching this one later myself. I've always found this to be a lot more interesting than the pilot, with G'kar and Londo, and in particular their adversarial relationship coming to the fore.

Couldn't agree more re Sinclair/O'Hare Ken, he takes wooden to whole new dimensions. Ivanova/Christian get's a whole lot better though, and Garibaldi, as you rightly point out, loves Daffy Duck so can't be a bad guy, can he ?? :lol:

More later when I've watched it.

Yes, one of the first Koshisms ;)

I've always liked "Midnight on the Firing Line". As an introduction to the series proper, it works superbly. Many big story lines are set up, and one of the truly great double acts in any TV series gets into stride. Vir debuts, Kosh's inscrutability is established, Ivanova (who rules :D) appears and runs the show from the start...it's all good.

It's also hard to say too much without adding spoilers. :lol: It'll be hard to restrain myself.

One thing before we go much further: I don't consider O'Hare/Sinclair "wooden". :P The character is simply a very self-contained person who treats his responsibilities very seriously and who - damn, that's a bit of a spoiler. Moving on... :D

I still really like this ep, all these years later. That can only be good. :)

THe best comparison you can make with O'Hare is with Avery Brooks. Whereas Brooks played the part of Sisko in a kind of understated way at times, that was undoubtedly down to choice. With O'Hare, he's been just as wooden in anything I've ever seen in him ;)

I'v grown to like O'Hare/Sinclair a lot more in retrospect, but he's still one of the poorer characters/actors on the show. IMO :)

Interesting. I feel the same way about Brooks. :D He's one of the many reasons I stopped watching DS9 - I just can't deal with the way he played Sisko at all.

But to each their own, ;)

Indeed :thumbsup:

Early episodes are designed to set scenes and introduce characters. An added bonus with B5 is the laying of those seeds we all know grow into redwoods.

As I said this is my second full rewatch and the first since I really became aware of how planned and meticulous the series was. I now find myself approaching each episode as if it was a "Restless" type deal and I do seem to be noticing more. Theres also more general hindsight - From The Gathering and this episode it seems as if G'Kar is being set up a nasty piece of work which is at odds a bit with the future but I guess that shows how big the coming events are.

I never thought of Sinclair as wooden - as others have said he was more "steady" to me and thats how he was designed in my view.

Ivanova was shown as the tough cookie we will come to love but the early establishment of her more human side was also welcome.

Like much of S1 I don't think this episode is outstanding though still watchable. More questions are raised in the "groundwork" mode the show finds itself in but the character stuff workd for me as well.

As a complete new comer to the show I guess I'd sum this up as not great but doing just enough to make you want to watch the next episode.

Taking a look at the characters I liked Garibaldi, Ivanova and the Narn ambassador. Sinclair seemed very wooden to me and a poor front man for the show. The Centauri (sp) ambassador seemed to be overdone but I got past that by reminding myself that this is frequently the case during the early episodes of a show.

The storyline was introduced fairly well and it was nice to see how it was built on as the season progresses (I cheated and watched ahead :) ).

There's a few things that really bug me. Firstly the silly synth music - having backround music that sounds like a five year old with a keyboard is not a good way of adding atmosphere to the show. The surprisingly dated set design was a bit of a disappointment as well - I know the show was done a few years ago but the overall feel was that it had been done in the late 70's or early 80's, not really what I was expecting.

You'd be surprised just how much this adds to the show in later seasons Dave. Christopher Franke adds a whole new dimension to B5 at times.

No Retreat, No Surrender Suite anyone ?? :lol:

My thoughts on eps tend to be rambling and somewhat random - get used to it, this is how it's going to be :P

OK so I have now actually watched this ep.

Lots of new arrivals to the cast including Ivanova, Vir and Talia Winters.

Ivanova and Vir are great characters, Talia I find somewhat dull.

And Delenn seems to look different <_<

Midnight on the Firing Line is a very strong opening for the series. I remember I video'd it when it was originally broadcast - I must have had some sixth sense that this was going to be a great show.

The Star Fury is one of the coolest ship designs of any series ever. NASA were so impressed with the design that they believe it would be a viable ship design for a highly manoeuvrable out of atmoshere vessel.

So, it would appear that the Narns are going to be the big bad bullies of the show.

I think I need to rewatch this already. I can't really remember what happened and I was getting ready to go out at the same time, so I don't think it got my full attention. <_<

I've just watched the 2 episodes in question myself, with notepad and pen in hand :P

Gimme half an hour for dinner and then I'll post my thoughts.

One of the benefits of Vic starting a college course is that because I have to take her I get a free couple of hours in the car waiting for her with nothing to do but watch a DVD or two :thumbsup:

So, I utilised tonight's class to catch up with the B5 rewatch and covered both Midnight on the Firing Line and Soul Hunter.

So, to it;

I'll just say, that whilst on the one level these early episodes may seem average at times, watching them in hindsight is a fascinating experience. Trust me when I say that there's so much more going on in this episode than you'll originally pick up upon.

As a series opener, I think this is pretty amazing. It's practically teeming with minutae that will later prove to be pivotal.

For me, one of the key aspects of B5 is the political lanscape and shennanighans. Here it's operating on a number of levels. Right off the bat you have the Earth Alliance elections, the Narn-Centauri situation, the role of the B5 Advisory Council and the politicking of individual characters. All of them are important to varying degrees. In this episode some elements are understated, others bought to the fore, perhaps trying to divert attention maybe ??

As a first look (or second I guess, after the pilot), the episode is at times completely at odds with certain characters and where they are a couple of years down the line. I can think of two at least ;) Beyond that, speaking as someone who's seen the whole series, it's always nice to go back to the beginning and see certain characters, then contrast them with where they finished the series at. Interesting on a number of levels. As Paul's mentioned above, the outcome of this episode seems quite clear; the Narn would appear to be instigators of chaos, whilst the Centauri are little more than a tragic fallen empire. This is true, but by no means the whole or finished story.

Another key aspect of the episode is the interplay between both Londo and G'kar and Londo and Garibaldi. Relationships are important, and these are two great dynamics to watch. Even at this early stage in the show's life they've all hit the ground running. Those particular dynamics only get better. I also loved the scene at the end with Garibaldi trying to find someone to share his 'second most favourite thing in the world' with and ending up with the most unobvious character :thumbsup: I think Garibaldi pretty much won me over at that point. A person that doesn't like Duck Dodgers I just don't understand :lol:

Throughout the majority of the episode something was niggling me, and it wasn't until the next episode that I figured out what it was, no Franklin. The sign of a good character, you notice when he's not there.

Then there's Kosh. For saying that they're ultra touchy about their security and privacy, doesn't anyone else think that Kosh took a bit of a risk when Sinclair went to visit him. If that glass hadn't been so frosty, or had Sinclair just peeked around the corner then Kosh would have revealed himself. Oh well, another story, for another episode, perhaps.

You also get the grounding of the Talia/Ivanova relationship, which seems frosty to say the least at this stage, unsurprisingly given the explanation at the end. At this point you'd have to say that Andrea Thompson gave a better performance than Pat Tallman in The Gathering.

Despite my opinion of Sinclair, I have to say I quite liked the character in this first episode. His handling of the situation was pleasing, and O'Hare seemed capable. I'll try to identify the point at which this changes as the show goes on.

Finally, the first appearance of ISN and Jane, the anchor. Keep an eye on her, there's a certain mindset in fandom that believes she reflects the major changes that occur throughout the series ;)

So, in conclusion, not a bad episode. Infinitely better in hindsight, but still a decent enough first episode either way, and IMO, better than the pilot.

Interestingly the comment about missing Franklin is the complete opposite for me - I didn't miss him at all!

The first thing to note is that G'Kar and Delenn's make-up have been severely revised, and look a lot better for it!

I've always enjoyed this episode - if anything as it manages to pull off a lot (introducing the new characters - within 2 scenes she's already set up as her wonderfully sarcastic self :))

The other thing is how the whole political situation is established so quickly - given most peoples expectation of sci-fi I'd have expected a more action-based story (especially for the premiere episode; although this episode was made as episode 103). What we in fact got was a lot of arguing round a table - I wonder just how many people tuned in expecting something else! :)

Of course, the other main thing about this story is how it sets up so much for the B5 arc, yet here the points all seem so insignificant...

Well, I rewatched this last night. And that's definitely the last time I watch it for a while. I feel as if I'm in a groundhog day moment, forced to watch the same episode over and over, cos I watched the first five mins once, then started from the beginning and watched the whole ep a week or two ago, and now I've watched it all again! :rolleyes: :lol:

Anyway, the first time I watched it all the way through (whilst wandering around getting ready to go out), I thought it was a kind of "meh" episode. But having listened to all the points about how it sets up a lot of of the story, I rewatched it closely with an open mind, and I enjoyed it a lot more. And found myself trying to guess which of the vague comments or conversations would be expanded on later in the series. So, still not the best ep ever, but it seems like it won't be, until I see it in hindsight.

Watching the eps with the benefit of hindsight is great - you can see how the tiniest throwaway line turned out to be not so throwaway after all.

I was astonished in my rewatch at just how much of the episode is vitally important in the coming seasons. As Phillip rightly points out, it all seems so trivial at this point, but there are many arcs both grand and personal that are kickstarted here. In hindsight I've always rather liked this one, but if anything it's better than I remember. In the grand scheme of things no, not the best episode ever done, but it's still very important.

ASnd so it begins... :D

Like everyone else I was just amazed at how this episode is the start of so much and how I didn't notice it at the time. This is not like DS9 where you have a couple of seasons and then the arc kicks in. This story starts right from ep 1 with the opening conflict between Narn and Centauri.

As openers go, I thought it was one of the best, easily outstripping most of Trek's though obviously many of the characters have got to find their feet. (or, in Garibaldi's case, lose their hair). I actually quite like Michael O'Hare and prefer him to his successor.

Are you saying that just to show that you can still surprise me from time to time Tony ?? :lol:

I thought both Boxleitner and Furlan were two of the show's greatest assets, especially in later years.

I hope I haven't grown so old that I can't sling in the odd surprise or two, James :lol:

What I really meant was that I preferred MOH's style of command to BB's. BB was just that bit two much of an all american hero, prone to barking 'asap' at the drop of a hat. Certainly I can't see Sinclair replacing Sheridan in the Furlenn story.

God. It's bloody hard not giving anything away :wacko:

:lol:

I nearly did just then but luckily remembered where I was. Don't forget you've got the spoiler thread as well Tony ;)

I found it difficult to look past MOH's shortcomings, my appreciation of the character probably suffered consequently.

And who's Sheridan ?? :whistling:

Bugger! :mad: :mad: :mad:

First time I've done this. I'll get the hang of it :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's just so easily done Tony, don't worry about it. I'm surprised I haven't slipped yet :rolleyes:

Finally got around to watching this again and enjoyed it. When it was first shown I remember going to work the following day and suggesting that the series should be renamed "Bolloxon 4". In retrospect it's hard to see why, even if the actors are having trouble getting their heads around JMS's awkward dialogue.

Londo and Garibaldi were always my favourite characters and this is a good episode for both of them. I love the scene where Londo introduces Vir, and Garibaldi's second favourite thing. Without giving anything away, there seems to be a nice juxtapositon of certain characters going on here, too, which I liked.

I thought O'Hare came across really well in this episode, too. The scene where he confronts G'Kar is possibly the highlight of the week for me.

Intentionally so of course. Using juxtapose here gives more emphasis to certain change in attitudes that are to come.

You're kidding?!!!!! :o :P :lol:

As if I'd lie to you Steve :P

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hello all... to those wondeing, I'm Phillip Culley's brother. He asked if I wanted to join in with the B5 thing (i.e. roped me into it in some manipulative manner :) ), so here I am, eventually. As a bit of background, I already "blazed" through B5 over the summer/end of the year in 2003 when Phillip got me to properly sit down and watch it, so I've been in need of a refresher anyway.

When watching this episode, I tried to keep myself in a state of mind of "imagine this is the first time I'd seen B5", and tried to draw some conclusions thereof.
- I have to agree with NJS - G'Kar does come across as something of the "resident baddie", although Londo does have this "sordid past" impression that I'm sure will be looked into as we progress. Also it seemed a bit odd having the Minbari about when people were saying about the "great war between Earth and the Minbari"... how chummy were the Allies and the Axis during the 1950's? :)
- If it wasn't for the "Security Chief" bit in the opening credits, I might have guessed that Garibaldi played a more military-like role than a policing one... in fact, by the end I felt that B5's command team looked that much more military-like than, say, Trek's command system.
- I spent most of the episode thinking that perhaps Ivanova and Winters had a "past relationship" that Ivanova was trying to avoid entirely. :) Also Garibaldi's comment to Winters when she left the lift suggested to me that he was the "always on the pull with minimal success" type. :)
- Although she doesn't seem to be a joke charcter at all, Ivanova does seem to be given some of the best lines!
- In one of those "B5 vs DS9" contest points, I think that having the fleet of fighter ships like B5 seem to do is a much more logical system than having just a few on-base weapons and maybe a few shuttles, like the Trek universe does. That and B5's fighters look sweet, especially when you see them doing their quick-turn-and-fire maneuver (sp?) against the Radiers.

Overall, the episode would certainly have been enough to intrigue me into watching more. Which I suppose is a positive result. :)

Anyhoo, time to get on with Soulhunter... a bit of catching up to do...

A big welcome to Mr Culley Jr (or is it Sr ??) :thumbsup:

Junior - I'm still in charge :)

Plus he keeps on pinching the various DVD sets I've bought :)

Should have flogged him your VHS copies like I did with mine :lol:

I think B5's the only think he's not borrowing since I did the same with my VHS's :)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

No one gets to borrow my B5 DVDs. B)

Yes, you bastard. :) How did the conversation go... wasn't it something like "I'm getting B5 on DVD, so you're buying my VHS's from me for £20 a season."

I'll also point out that this was more of a demand than an offer. :)

I don't remember seeing you complaining :)

If it's any consolation, the conversation with my brother went exactly the same way. Only that was £15 per season :lol:

Younger brothers are there to be manipulated ;)