It's been a fair while since I've watched any of the original series (or should that be The Original Series? :lol: ) but I find myself returning to it now with a degree of relish and excitement. I made an abortive entry into the reg 1 dvds a few years back - two episodes per disc, extortionate prices etc - but gave it up as a bad idea long before the end of the first season. So it's good to be here now, with this extremely odd box sitting proudly on the shelf, wearing the gold of command (I notice season 3 is going to be red - 'nuff said :rolleyes: ).

Anyway, the first thing to say about Where No Man Has Gone Before is, for me at least, that - love him or hate him - William Shatner is so damn likeable in this iconic role. He immediately imbues Kirk with a sense of dashing heroism, down to Earth good naturedness and yet still with that steely glint of command that makes him, in this incarnation at least, my favourite Trek captain. And all that whilst having to deal with silly length trousers. For my money, his promotion to admiral in the subsequent films, along with Shatner's ever increasing girth and progressively sillier wigs, plus the passing of time in which the series has become seen among the cliches that it, itself, created, has devalued the character greatly. Which is a shame.

The other thing that always strikes me when watching this episode is how different the series may have been had certain characters either survived the script or the transition to full-blown series. Paul Carr's Lee Kelso is a case in point. Even though he is dead before the final act he comes across as a very engaging character and it is shame to see him go.

Of course the other two characters that this applies to don't make it through the episode either. I always used to find Sally Kellerman really irritating, no matter what she was in, but I have grown to like Dr Dehner over the years, especially after she helps Kirk at the end. And Gary Lockwood, an actor who seemed to perennially play likeable rogues in various shows during the 60s, has a great time turning that particular stereotype on its head, and doing it with a great deal of menace, too. There are some genuinely chilling moments here, not least of which is the moment when Kirk is watching Mitchell read in sickbay, only for Mitchell to turn knowingly towards the camera and stare back at the captain. Or the first sight of those silver eyes, which famously fade to black long after the rest of the image has done so.

It is a terrific episode, one - possibly - that has rarely been bettered. It makes you think, which is what the best storytelling should always do. It is certainly now a well-worn cliche: the friend or crew member who is affected by some external force and becomes god-like. But here it has a freshness and attention to detail (such as the way Mitchell's temples grey increasingly during the episode, or the wonderful shot of the lithium cracking station on the planet surface) that belies its age.

A great start.

I'd thought about those R1 DVDs a while back as well Steve, instead though I decided on going for the reissued VHS tapes, the vast majority of which I still haven't watched, and probably now won't (hmm, eBay time for those methinks). Unsurprisingly, the quality of the DVDs is some way ahead of the VHS versions, and whilst not perfect, are good enough, for me anyway ;)

Someone on the Beeb board mentioned this a few days ago and I have to completely agree. I've never been a massive fan of the original series. Yes I've seen it, yes I liked it, but as good as D$9 ?? I don't think so, and still don't, but it's still one hell of a series (here at least). If you go back and look at TNG's first couple of years you have to say that TOS, at this point, hasn't dated that badly. The freshness of the show, in it's infancy is compelling. Especially for us, here, now, beholden to a show heaped in it's own history and continuity. TOS, at this point has none of those binding ties, in fact it's many of them. To see there creation is a marvel to behold. As I was watching these first few episodes, what a joy just to sit there, relax and take it all in, rather than having the weight of expectation and continuity sitting on you.

To the episode itself then. I've heard that WNMHGB was filmed a good 12 months before it actually aired, the second pilot. Now, as far as the pilots go, I have to say I loved them both. It's a shame that the executives at the time didn't go for The Cage. Having said that though, if they had then we'd likely to have missed out on a large part of what made TOS great. Shatner for one. Take the p*ss out of him if you will, and we do, myself included, but when you see him in episodes like this you realise that his iconic status was well earned. Jeff Hunter was ok in The Cage, but nothing special. Shatner by the same token is outstanding here. I'm sure we all remember movie-era Kirk and hardly being able to believe that this aging, overweight and folically challenged character had gotten into such hijinks so long ago. Well here they are, and both Shatner and by extension Kirk are at their best.

Characterwise there are a few more notes here; firstly, the lack of Bones is quite noticable. The Doc in this episode is akin to Dr Kyle in B5's pilot, solid enough, but hardly likely to become popular. The character is one-dimensional, and whilst you could argue that this was based on only one episode, both Kirk and Spock had no problem in proving to be interesting characters. Both Shatner and Nimoy conveyed charisma. It's not difficult to see why De Kelley was bought in, and for the better it has to be said. The other note here, is Gary Lockwood's Gary Mitchell. Look at this character, the Godly powers aside, and tell me his character wasn't the template for Wil Riker :lol: It's all there, the wit, the charm with the ladies, the glint in the eye, the parallels there between Lockwood and Frakes are remarkable. As one of my favourite TNG characters, this only compounded my liking of Lockwood's character, which then made the rest of the story more poignant. As guest slots go, you don't often see this calibre, and I was saddened by the fact that we wouldn't be seeing more of what had been an outstanding character. Incidentally, anyone who reads the Trek novels may want to check out the TOS era trilogy entitled My Brother's Keeper, covering the novels Republic, Constitution and Enterprise. This trilogy provides the background to Kirk and Mitchell's friendship, and I have to say, of all the Trek novels I've read, these are the best. They certainly add an extra dimension to WNMHGB.

Just picking up on one of your points there Steve, I have to agree re Kelso. He'd become a more interesting character in this one than say Scotty.

I'd pretty much agree with you in conclusion Steve, it's a truly wonderful start, and in many ways provides a platform that The Cage wouldn't have. There's nothing really about this one that I didn't particularly like. Watching this just whets the appetite even more for the rest of the season. Initially I'd intended only getting the season 1 set, as that would contain the vast majority of the better episodes, but at this point I'm certainly getting season 2, and even season 3's not out of the question.

It's interesting, I must admit. I'm not about to claim that it hasn't been bettered by subsequent series but I do think, for me at least, that there will always be an element of fondness and loyalty borne from having grown up with this original incarnation. I have so many fond memories of watching the series in my pre-teen years in the 70s, back when the BBC regarded it worthy of a peak viewing time slot on its premier channel - that's how long ago it was: BBC2, 6:45, what's that? At the time there was nothing else like it. And I remember how the monster that Pike strangles, and the green woman whose picture was shown at the end of each episode, used to scare me :lol:

The first video I ever bought was a Star Trek one. It cost my £30 back in 1982 and it had two episodes on it: Space Seed and The Changeling, both chosen because of their relevance to the two movies released up to that point. There was a trailer for TWOK on there, too, which I later added to the collection for the princely sum of £60. Needless to say this was before someone had the idea for sell-thru video. :rolleyes:

And then, of course, the BBC decided to rerun the entire series to coincide with the release of TSFS and, with the handy video recorder at the ready, I taped them all and watched them to death - the one thing I hadn't been able to do when I was 6 or 7 years old.

And now I really can't remember what the point of this post was, apart from to say that I have enjoyed all of the Trek series to one degree or another, but here is where the love of cult tv started for me.

It's obviously an age thing :lol:

Thing is, it probably is. Fondness often stems from the formative years.

For me, my first dealings with Trek were also with TOS, and I remember distinctly upon renting (or having Mum/Dad rent it for me) Encounter at Farpoint, the TNG premiere thinking that under no circumstances would I like this show, how could they better Kirk and Co ?? At best this would be a cheap knockoff, a pale imitation of a great legend. Looking back now, I only vaguely remember ever watching TOS prior to that point. Certainly I'd seen the first couple of movies, probably the third as well come to think about it, not sure about TVH though. I have very vague recollections of actually seeing the series though. I don't doubt that I did, but when I look back and try to remember TOS, it's always the movies that spring to mind.

To this end, TNG was really where I came to love the franchise. Whilst I liked TOS, I'd always preferred Star Wars myself. It wasn't until the advent of Sky One that it became absolutely compulsory viewing. Yes I'd seen the first three years on BBC2, and yes it was ok, but after The Best of Both Worlds, the Beeb showings ground to a halt for a few years. In this time Sky One then started showing the series from the beginning and actually went into season 4 !! I was in sixth form at the time, suddenly this was a show I couldn't miss. I recorded them all from Sky, and then started faithfully snapping up the VHS releases whereever possible. This was in the days of new releases (with 2 episodes) every couple of weeks. I remember the first one I ever bought was the casette with I Borg/The Next Phase on it. Great stuff !!

Since then I've gone on to follow each incarnation of the franchise with differing degrees of fondness. Babylon 5 Mark II I find difficult to fault. Voyager, I really really wanted to like. Despite everything being there, it was all squandered. Enterprise, well the jury's still out on that one.

So when I think of Trek, and what got me into it, I'd have to say TNG, but TOS was where it all started, and with it being for all intents and purposes the odd show out (with it's age), it's easy to overlook. This is the series that gave us The City on the Edge of Forever, and Devil in the Dark for Christ's sake. How can anyone overlook that ?? :rolleyes:

I did exactly the same thing. I remember how rabid I was when season 3 started coming out on VHS because it was at that point that the video releases overtook the BBC broadcasts (didn't have Sky at the time). When I saw Yesterday's Enterprise for the first time I remember phoning all my friends (well, two of them anyway) to tell them they just had to buy that tape because it was so amazing. And then how rabid I got when season 4 started being released. :rolleyes:

I did the same thing with TOS when it was released on video in the 80s. And Babylon 5 Mark II up to the end of season 3, plus a couple of Voyager ones. In the end they all had to go because I had no room for all the dvds. :lol:

Horrifically enough I even went as far as to buy the original releases of TNG season 1, which were costing £60 a piece. I look back at things like that now and think... well, actually I'd probably do exactly the same thing. :lol:

Jeez, I have spent a horrendous amount of money on the various Star Treks over the years. And now I'm contemplating the D$9 dvds as well :fear: :lol:

The way I figure it, Paramount owe me big time! :ph43r:

I started getting the VHS releases of TNG during the fifth season releases. After that I systematically completed my collection of the series over the next couple of years. Game had them on offer I remember for £5.99 per tape. I remember blowing a stash of cash on them.

D$9 I started collecting from the beginning, collecting the first three years completely, and tailing off halfway through season four. After that I got sporadic releases. Again, since then I've completed the VHS collection.

Voyager, I bought the first season and then checked out again. Since then I've gone back, just to satisfy my completist urges :lol: I've got about 3/4 of the releases. Never bothered with the TOS releases, think I had two, The Cage, and the one with City on the Edge of Forever and Errand of Mercy on it. Since then I've gotten about half of the three episode per tape re-releases from a few years ago.

I'm not tempted to upgrade TNG, although D$9 is a matter of time. Won't be upgrading Voyager either. Not sure about Enterprise just yet. Depends what else is around at the time.

I still remember getting both D$9's Emissary and Voyager's Caretaker on the release dates :)

It's funny how sentimental your posts have made me feel. I don't recall be over-enthusiastic about TOS despite being a sci-fi reader and seeing many of the episodes during their original broadcasts. Even today, I don't regard myself as a fanatic of the show. But...God!...how memorable the show has been!

IMO, TOS's characters make the show and works best with stories play them off each other. By sci-fi standards, the stories were generally naive (Harlan Ellison producing the exception to this). By philosophical standards--which was paramount in Roddenberry's purpose--it was simplistic. If these stories are taken in the context of the times, when scifi as entertainment was rare, then they can be appreciated--much as good fairy tales are still appreciated.

These posts, James and friends, have been excellent and enlightening and it has inspired me to go rent some of the TOS DVDs.

I'm glad our contributions have proven fruitful John :)

I'm pretty much of the same opinion, I wasn't really going to get the Season 1 set at all, but for a whim in the moment of seeing it. Yes I've seen them before, yes I enjoyed them, but never as much as some of the later series. What I'm finding as I go through is that I may have underestimated my fondness for the series.

I think you're right about the characters. Roddenberry's chief aims as I understand was to provide social commentary on certain issues whilst simultaneously having these issues interwoven within a sci-fi plot or concept. It works, but primarily due to the characters. You often hear of the great characterisation and dynamics of the later series, in particular TNG and D$9, and you then hear about it all stemming from TOS, with the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triumvirate. Part of you dismisses this (or part of me did anyway), yes it was good, but this good ?? Going back over these early episodes you have to reply, yes that good.

The thing to bear in mind with regards to sci-fi at the time was that Lost in Space pretty much was TV's take on science fiction at the time :rolleyes: Trek moved the whole televisual genre onto a different level, just as TNG did many years later for a short time.

Now John, get your shoes on, and go get them thar DVDs and join in the analysis :thumbsup:

Here here. Come on John, the more the merrier :thumbsup:

Guess that goes for everyone else as well. C'mon guys, get with the fun :)

I haven't really got much to add to what I've already said in this thread but, after watching it again last night I had to post something :lol:

Considering this is the (second) pilot episode I think it's a tremendous piece of work, right up there with the very best Trek episodes, rarely bettered. It's interesting that this, for me at least, is one of the most chilling stories that was told in any of Trek's incarnations. There's genuine menace in Mitchell's transformation and its effects are brilliantly played by all, especially Lockwood and Shatner. Kirk's desire to cling to their friendship in the face of all evidence to the contrary is beautifully handled.

I wonder if, later down the line, Spock would have encouraged Kirk to kill Mitchell in the way that he does here :ponder:

Marvellous :thumbsup: