For those of you who have got SKY and have not seen this yet (shame on you) STAR TREK NEMESIS premiers of SKY MOVIES 1 tonight at 8pm.

Foget what you have heard IT IS a great movie and well worth watching!!!

Sorry Ken, but it does actually blow.

The first Trek film I got bored with whilst watching....

I'm with Phillip, Nemesis is poor Trek. You'd be better off watching TWOK instead, practically the same story but ten times better ;)

I know you love it Ken, but like Phillip, it bored me at times.

Just want them to release the definitive edition on dvd where they restore it to the length it was meant to be!!!!!

Sorry I disagree completly with the pair of you, every time I watch it time just zooms by and I cannot believe I have watched a full length movie. Dosent bore me in the slightest.

Right up there with II and VI as a STAR TREK CLASSIC!!!!

Rewatched this again this morning, as I missed it last night through going to the pictures.

Still think it is an excellent movie, Data's sacrafice still brings a tear to my eye and still cannot see what Philip and Angel and others complain about it.

Dosent bore me at all, on the contary I think it is a well paced movie, with the required slow tempo bits for story building but with enough action sequences that are well directed to satisfy anyone.

Maybe it has 'borrowed' bits from WOK but it is still a good film in its own right and if, unfortuantely, it is the last appearance by the NEXT GEN crew then it is a worthy last appearance. (It shouldnt be they should make more)

Excellent movie - now bring out a complete edition!!!!

There are two general complaints I believe;

The first is that the pacing throughout is awful. There's a good half an hour in the middle where nothing of consequence happens. The thing to bear in mind is that this is the shortened version, with the additional material included as well it'll just be worse, as the pace will be slowed yet further. This is bad enough, but the fact that the entire third act is lifted straight from TWOK is even worse. It's a carbon copy all the way to having a noble sacrifice at the end (and they even emulated the get out of jail card as well).

It's no small wonder that Nemesis tanked at the box office. The one thing that it clearly highlights is that Berman and Braga have simply run out of ideas. John Logan may well have come up with the script for Nemesis, but Berman and Braga are the ones who signed off on it. They should never have let this reach the screen. With Trek's reputation at an alltime low, this pretty much killed any chances of a further TNG movie and went some way to nearly finishing off the franchise completely.

It's nowhere near as bad as TFF, but beyond that, it's probably the next worst movie, with the possible exception of TSFS. It's definitely the weakest TNG installment ;)

I disagree (as you know I would) that the pacing is awful - half an hour - must have missed that - I honestly havent got a clue where this 1/2 hour that nothing happens is. There is a sequence in the middle that is slightly slower but it is essential to the story line.

As for the end sequence I thought that was exciting and well filmed and yes there are obvious comparrisons with TWOK but I dont think Nemesis suffers for it.

I think the problem with Nemesis is that it came out at the wrong time where a lot of TREK fans were already disilusioned thanks in part to Voyager and in the main to B&B and even if it had been the definitive STAR TREK film people would still have complained about it and found reasons to hate it.

Instead they should see it for what it is a quality STAR TREK film and in my opinion the best of the Next Gen ones and possibly the third or second best overall.

I'm kind of going to sit on the fence on this one.

Nemesis, was IMO a watered down version of TWOK, but it was still a reasonable movie in its own right. Angel and I have agreed that the Romulans deserve more screen time than they have, to date, had. The inclusion of the Remans added a new twist to this race, of which we still know relatively little. In the right hands this could have been an incredible addition to the Trek canon, instead it is left in the ranks of mediocrity, neither good nor bad.

I think with regards to the air of ambivalence towards the Trek franchise since the airing of Voyager, it's quite apparent that interest in the franchise is waning. This has obviously affected Enterprise, but as far as Nemesis goes, I honestly believe that this contributed towards the ambivalence rather than being a symptom of it.

As Jamie says the Romulans deserve a larger role in the TNG movies, they were afterall a formidable foe in the series itself, instead they provide little more than a cameo instead serving to bring forward the Remans who I must admit did very little for me at all.

At the time Trek needed something special to bring the people back into the fold, instead what we got was a reheated rehash of a story that was always going to suffer. Did they honestly expect to top TWOK with that ending ?? Did they even think people would notice ?? Probably not, it's B&B afterall.

It's just too derivative, and not in a good way. There's nothing wrong with emulation if you're going to improve on the original, but Nemesis really didn't. For saying that this was TNG's swansong, it's mediocrity is criminal.

I guess Nemesis is just one thing we are NEVER EVER going to agree on in any way whatsoever. - never mind you cannot be right all the time :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nemesis just get's added to the list, alongside The Final Frontier and B5 ;)

:D :P :rolleyes:

True!

Hello everybody! :thumbsup:


This is my first poast since joining, so I'll just take this quick oppertunity to say hello to all the firmilir faces (You know who you are :P ) and also to say hello and thanks to Rob & Angel for the welcome :D

Now on to bussiness....
Star Trek: Nemesis is a lot better than a lot of people think. Yeah sure there are elements of TWOK in it but not enough like it to be an exact copy. It is a good film and deservse a bit more praise than it got. None of this praise should go to either the director or the writer. Sure they tried something driffrent here and there but they seemed to have lost the heart of Trek along the way, and thats where the film faulters. There is alot in the movie which was cut out which should have stayed in: Troi in the turbolift and the new 1st officer scenes for a start. I would have to agree with Ken and say that it is too short and even though it does fly by it could have done with cut scenes added. Although after just watching ST:I and loving it more now I think ST:N will grow on me as well and get better with age. Or perhaps knowing that the next movie wont be a TNG cast movie Im just seeing both in a better light? Anyway overall better than 3,4 & 5!!!

Welcome again Dr Noah :)

We can agree on a few points there at least. It's definitely better than TFF, the alternative ending was a lot better than the ending they eventually went with, and the movie did indeed lose a lot of the tone that makes Trek, Trek. To me the whole movie just felt cold. Of course by the time we got to see it over here news had already started filtering through that this was likely to be the final TNG movie as well. This undoubtedly doubled the weight of expectation. For me, personally, I found it unsatisfying in this regard. The TNG cast were brilliant at times and I wanted a fitting send off for them. It also guts me slightly that Q wasn't there at the end, given what an integral part of TNG he turned out to be.

Linking this in slightly with the NF thread as well, and the rumours that the next movie will have a new cast entirely, you have to wonder if that's to intentionally negate the ability of us fans to draw comparison with other adventures for the same cast; ie. us sitting here saying "that's a poor TNG story".

I know I'll never get it, but I still want a DS9 movie :cry:

I dont think there is a chance of their being a DS9 film unless they do a film about the Titan and include members from DS9 in that.

The idea that is circulating about doing a movie about stafleet academy with a young kirk etc is the most stupid idea B&B have ever come up with.

Nemesis is not a poor TNG movie, it is not even a poor Star Trek movie, it just that everyones expecation was too high.

I for one loved it and continue to do so each and every time I watch it!!!

I agree, there's no chance of a purely DS9 movie. It's common knowledge that both Berman and Braga see the superior non B&B produced incarnation with envy. They called Ira in last year to ask his opinion on where Trek was going wrong, he gave them his opinions and they completely disregarded them. As such Ira's gone on to produce The 4400 to massive numbers over the summer whilst Trek has continued to flounder under the stewardship of the Chuckle Brothers. :rolleyes:

Re Nemesis, I judge it against the other TNG movies, and it pales in comparison, even to Insurrection. Just my opinion Ken ;)