I finally found a quality LFS here that has Demasoni (and that's virtually the only Malawi they have!) The fish are in nice condition and there are fry in the tank with them, so they spawned right there in the LFS.

I was thinking of getting 12-15 of them and letting them anchor a tank.

What minimum size tank do I need? Who else will they tolerate in with them?

you need at least a 29 gal - I see a lot of people go with smaller tanks like they do for saulosis. most of demasonis agression is focused on each other, so they do well with most other mbuna. Yellow labs seem to be a common choice because of the nice contrast of their yellow with the demasonis blue and black. I would probably do a 55 with 12 demasoni and 7 labs or red zebras would also look nice. Try to avoid blue striped tankmates.

I agree with yodahorn on the yellow labs and I also would go
with at least a 55 gal. because if you wanted to add more or if
you decided to keep the fry, you would have enough room to add them.

Have plenty of rock work and good luck.

Kim and Aura are demasoni keepers and they should be able to hekp
you much more than me.

Don: Did you or are you still getting that 180 gallon tank? Hmmmm

If you go as small as 29G, get 10 demasoni and rock it out well.

With a 55G, I would go with 15-20 demasoni, and 7-8 Yellow labs.

You can really keep almost anything that isn't blue and barred with them, Don. Their aggression is conspecific, so if you don't want to go with the classic Yellow lab/demasoni combo, just keep that in mind. I wouldn't put anymore dwarf mbuna in with them, because they tend to be easily intimidated by the demasoni.

Kim

Thanks for the input! I keep getting yellow lab spawns so I have a supply of those for balancing tanks!

Preacherboy, I am (finally) about to order my big tank -- after lots of research I think I'm getting a 150G (6 ft. long, 18" wide) rather than a 180G, which at 24" wide does not fit my space as well.

I was going to have it drilled for a sump, but kept getting advice that if I wanted a sump I should have acrylic, not glass, and everyone here warned me that acrylic and Mbuna rockwork equal scratches and frustration.

The built-in overflows in the glass tanks have much too large a footprint, and are located in bad places that interfere with setting the tank up in the best way.

So I'm going to get a 150G and put a couple of canisters on it, plus some extra aeration I have to think about.

Glad to hear it, Don!

Are you going to add any HOB's to the filtration as well?

I will soon be getting a 100 gallon, I hope for Christmas.

That's all the space I have; I need a five foot tank.

Good luck and post some pics as soon as you get it!

preacherboy, when you get the 100 are getting rid of something smaller?

Sorry Yodahorn, but this tank will be a new addition to
my MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrone) disease that I acquired last October!

I'm excited about getting it!

preacherboy is being a stingy butt... Bouncy

When you start doing away with your good furniture to make room for tanks, you know you've hit rock bottom. Then you need to join a 12 step program of some sort!

Kim

Kim, you're right!

I am a stingy butt when it comes to my tanks because
it takes me forever to convince my wife that I need another
one.

So when I am able to convince her, someone would have to come
and pry that tank out of my cold dead hands in order to get it!

In addition, being from Kentucky, I consider a nice tank an actual piece of high quality furniture!

Don't you?

In my defense, I did give away my 38 gal to my sister six years ago
when I took a break from the hobby.

Am I still a stingy butt now?

PB, we keep seeing more ways in which we agree on Principles of Cichlid Keeping! I gave the sofa in my home office to our son because it gave me room to get the 150G!

BTW, I now have 14 Demasoni hanging out temporarily in a rockpile inside a 12G Eclipse system. (These tank/hood/light/filter combos are usually $100-$110 but I can get them for $72 in San Francisco and I've now bought two.)

We finish our office move this weekend, and when I set up my 33L again I'm planning to put the 14 Demasoni in with a few Yellow Labs.

I have a single Estherae male I'd put in too if it were a 55G, but the 33L is 4 feet long by 12" wide and only 12" high, so there isn't good open water space for him to show off and chase away others. But that long low look oughta be great for Demasoni.

I also saw a YouTube video with Msobo and Demasoni together -- I guess that's OK because they're not vertically striped blue fish?

I know the advice above was that a 55G would be better, but for now my single 55G is spoken for. If these guys like the 33G I'll probably end up feeding my MTS!

I'll take some pics once I get it going!

Don, the only potential problem with the demasoni in that tank is an overabundance of males, but once they mature you'll be able to easily pick them out. You can remove a couple without replacing them since you have more than 10, or you can add back some of your own juvies (they'll spawn really early and you and I will have to talk turkey basters then) to balance things out.

It will be fine...I wish I could get my hands on a long low tank like that...I'd do shell dwellers! You rarely see those size tanks around here!

Kim

Boy, those little guys swim fast! I thought the other Mbuna were precision swimmers, but the Demasoni maneuver in and out of the rocks like magic!

Wait until you try to catch a holding female that looks identical to 13 other fish in your tank! Then we'll talk about how fast they are! Giggly

Pete and I invented alot of new words while trying to do that!

We'll be anxiously awaiting pics!

Kim

On the Floor Laughing I've used some choice language too. My little dog and cat who normally stay underfoot when I'm messing around with the tanks, know it's time to get out of the way when the net comes out at the demasoni tank. I'm going to be there a long time and it can get pretty ugly!

Congrats on finding some nice ones, Pseudo. You'll love them!

Kim, 33L tanks are easy to find here in Kentucky!

Feeder's Supply has many different sizes of tanks most of the time!

I have some juvie Venustus -- would I be crazy to keep them with the Demasoni for 3 months? They're 1.5"-3".

Thanks!

I don't know how big your demasoni are, Don, but keep in mind that venustus are very predatory, and have some pretty big mouths on them...If the demasoni will fit in the mouth of the venustus, I say no...A 3 inch venustus would have a good sized mouth! Bigger than mine, maybe! Giggly

Kim

OK, I'm going to get everyone into the 33L this weekend now that I have its temp etc. stable in my new office. At 576 square inches of surface water I can get 72 inches of fish in there if my math is right.

I have a couple of questions -- I have:

Lots of rocks

14 Demasoni, size range from 1.25" to 3", M/F ratio unknown

About 5 yellow labs, average length 2".

My questions:

1. I have one smaller yellow lab, who is just getting to be about 1". Too small to put into this mix or OK?

2. If I put my single male Met. Estherae in with these guys for a while am I asking for trouble? He's about 3.5" and bossy. (Trying to separate him from the Msobo in my 55G so they'll breed -- he's the same orange as the females and I think he's mixing everyone up.)

3. Would my albino Ps. Socolofi be a good match? They're not as good at competing for food, which makes me wonder about housing them with the meister-swimmer Demasoni.

4. A good excuse to buy some of Cturner's Polits and include them?

5. Other good species to hunt for to add to this tank?

Thanks!

Don, I think you'll be fully stocked in that size tank with the demasoni and the Yellow labs. I wouldn't push it with anything else. I think the smaller yellow lab will be fine.

It may be that you just need to get rid of the estherae, period. You don't want him in with the Yellow labs (especially as a "solo" male estherae) anymore than you need him with the Msobos. He'll crossbreed with both.

The demasoni are going to breed like crazy at a very young age...I had holding females at one inch. Males will usually be fertile at 2 inches. Since the tank is at work and you likely won't remove holding females, you'll have alot of survivors in the tank. So, what you put in isn't necessarily going to be your "stock list" in concrete.

As far as the polits go, the only way you will have success mixing dwarf mbuna (colour wise to get the look you want) is to do a couple of groups like cturner has in a large tank. The polits in a small group would likely be very intimidated by the demasoni, and I don't think you'd be happy, even if you did have the room.

I wouldn't keep socolofi in anything less than a 55G.

HTH

Kim

Pseudo, I'm just curious where this number came from? Hmmmm

I've heard the number of inches of fish per gallon (which doesn't really work with most cichlids), but not per square inch.

Well good luck on your new little demasoni! I'm really loving mine now! They look gorgeous in a 6 foot tank and even spawned with 14 little buggers for the first spit...not so bad for a wee 1.5" fart! They always show such gorgeous colours and I love their personalities!

Aura, I'll have to track it down. I picked this up somewhere early on in phase 2 of my Malawi cichlid keeping (phase 1 was 1975-1981, phase 2 is, er, 2007).

I read that properly loading a Malawi tank called for taking the surface area, dividing by 8, and shooting for about that many inches of fish. Species behavior could alter this, but it was a rule of thumb.

The caveat the article added was that good filtration and water changes were vital to the success of this formula.

Old wives' tale? Have I been doing it wrong?

I don't know - I haven't heard that formula before. It would probably vary depending on the adult size and temperament of the fish, but it's interesting.

Now I'm going to have to go see how many inches of fish I have to see how it compares. fishy

Demasoni are a great fish. I keep my breeding group of 12 or so in a 33 also. The only difference is, mine is a bare tank. I give one clay pot for the dominant male to call home and thats about it. Sometimes put another small pot on the opposite side of the tank. I kept one breeding group around 5 years that way. They produced over 2000 fry in that time...

That's very interesting, Finman!

Everyone always says with demasoni that you need a heavily rocked
tank in order to avoid too much aggression.

And here you have a bare tank with only a clay pot in place.

It just goes to show you there are many ways to keep fish
in our hobby and not everybody is right because it is their own way!

I have to agree with you, Patrick.

When our demasoni were tiny, we had alot of rocks in the tank and rarely saw the fish. As they got a little older, we started removing rocks. When we moved them up to the 55G, we made 3 small rock piles evenly spaced throughout the length of the tank. At this time, we wound up with 3 males sharing dominancy, one claiming each pile and rarely straying far from that pile. I bet there weren't a full ten rocks in the whole tank.

Kim

I figured if they did not have any areas to lay claim to that they would get along better. Seems to work for me but I have had other fish that it has not worked for. I also know other people that it did not work for. What works for one person does not ness. work for someone else....lol

Patrick, I've found that removing rocks and potential territories in many of my tanks helps with aggression. Others do just the opposite and add rocks when they have overly aggressive fish! So you're exactly right...What works in one case won't work in others!

Kim

I've been doing 80-hour weeks and traveling a lot, but today I finally got my Demasoni and Yellow Labs into the 40G.

I have the back half at the bottom rocked for about 40% of the tank height. I'll see how that works. If they stay away too much I'll try the two stacks method and see where that takes me.

Thanks for all the great advice!

BTW, I'll be in Toronto briefly mid-January. Dunno who here is close enough to make grabbing a drink and saying hello realistic, but I figured I'd mention it.

Don

Don, we're only about an hour and a half away from TO, but I will be in Kentucky the 2nd - 15th!

If it's after that, we'll try to set up a meeting place!

You will only be about 30-45 minutes from Larry and his store and fish, and very close to Klaus!!!

Kim

Kim, I knew something was going better here in Kentucky
and now I know why!

You are here!

Enjoy your stay and it is too bad we couldn't get together some
place.

Did you fly or drive?