I have one and perhaps two Acei females holding.

If I have two, can I isolate them together in a tank until they spit? Are they any more dangerous to each other's fry than to their own?

Thanks!

I let my fish hold to term in the breeding tank,only if the male gets ruff do I remove her,but that's almost never.
Now I have removed several female Ps.Flavis to a bucket to strip and those little darlings persuaded another female to take them in!
But never lost any.
In the wild I have observed polystigma fry being taken in for protection by Kwinge females! So if you're fish are brooding together and they release the fry I don't think the other would swallow them,,,,I mean how could she tell them apart,,,with her own in her mouth?

Cheers!!! Larry

Pseudo, I do just like Larry does - leave them in the main tank unless they are being harassed.

I don't think they would be a danger to each other's fry, but when I have had more than one holding mom separated out in a tank together, they seemed to be uncomfortable with the presence of the other. I've seen them showing aggression toward each other, chasing and acting unsettled.

To avoid this, I made a tank divider to separate them. That way they didn't bother each other and I didn't have to worry about the fry if one spit sooner than the other.

Of course, with mine they were in a small 10 gallon tank. It might not be a problem if you have a bigger tank where they have more room.

You might be okay with the more passive species like acei, Don. Once you drop them in together, you'll be able to tell. If they start fighting, you can use a divider or breeder net for one of them.

Odds are they will both hang on to their fry longer with another fish in the tank. Are you planning to strip them? That would give you a bit more control over the situation.

Kim

I'm with the above. I don't separate out until right before they spit. Then I put them in a breeders net in the ten gallon fry tanks...when they spit their babies, I scoop the moms out and put fry in the tank...voila! I keep lights turned off these tanks or at a minimum for the prevention of stress!

Update:

Mom 1 was isolated, spit about 24 fry and returned to the main tank about 4 days ago.

Mom 2 is beginning to look like she's ready to spit.

I was thinking of moving Mom 2 into the fry tank with the 24 fry so she could spit in there as well. I have not yet gotten the courage to strip fry, hence my isolate and then scoop out strategy for holding females.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Don

I'm not sure how the mom will react to the fry in the tank. She might totally ignore them, she might try to pick them up as well, or she might release her fry and eat the others!

I doubt that she would eat the others, but you have to take into consideration that she hasn't eaten in awhile, so it's a tough call to make. Logically, you would think that she wouldn't be able to tell the old fry from the new fry, but who knows???

I think it's time for you to do your first strip, Don! We can talk you through it!

Kim

I would put her in a breeder box/net in the fry tank or...

...like Kim said, strip her.

It is a little scary at first, but as long as you are firm while still being gentle, it will be all right.

I remember I was so afraid that I would injure her by squeezing too hard, or pry her mouth open too far, but that didn't happen.

I prefer to let them spit on their own, but sometimes you just need to strip.

I feel certain that you will be able to successfully strip her if you want to give it a try. Let us know so we can give you some helpful tips before you get started.

She looked ready to go tonight so I got her into a breeder net with a plastic plant.

If she's still holding this weekend I may make her my first try at stripping, though I wish I knew for sure when the spawn was so I don't get egg sacs.

Unlike her sister, she made me tear down the whole tank, net all the Acei (and a few Lab. Mbamba!) etc. just to finally get her. Hopefully she'll still be holding tomorrow AM after all that drama.

Oh, well, I got a 40% water change out of the deal.

Since I did a lot of chasing and netting, should I do a week with Pimafix as a preventative? Or add salt to the tank?

Thanks!

Don

I might add some aquarium salt, but in reality, they will probably be fine without you doing anything. You should have seen what Pete and I used to do to our demasoni everytime we were trying to remove holding females! We'd catch every one of them before we caught the right one!

If you decide to strip, check out the video library over at CF...Joea has a great video of stripping, with some pretty comical music to go along with it!

Kim

She's still in the breeding net waiting it out. Her buccal cavity has definitely expanded still further, though I'm keeping thelights out so it's harder to see exactly.

It's been a crazy week so I think I'm just going to let her spit in there. So far, so good!

Sounds like she's a little stubborn! Just like most females!

Be sure to keep us posted!

Kim

Hehehe I always love reading your threads! Good luck with the new fry!

Just back from a family weekend away -- lots of fun but didn't take my laptop.

Last Wednesday or Thursday "little sis'" spat about 15 babies in the breeding net. I got her out of there and back into the main tank. I'm giving them crushed flake, and after I get them eating it for a week or so and moving confidently in the breeding net I'll use the turkey baster as suggested and integrate them with their cousins who are a couple of weeks older. That will give me a group of 40 Ps. Acei to raise together.

Thanks again for all the great advice!

Don

Congrats, Don! This is the fun part of keeping mbuna!

Get ready! Those acei grow really fast, IME. And they will eat you out of house and home.

Do you find your adults to be huge pigs? Ours bring their entire heads up out of the water at feeding time. blinky

Kim

Congrats on those fry, Pseudo! I wish I could find some nice acei around here. I have only one and it needs some more of its own kind.

What is it that you are going to use the turkey baster for? If you are going to try to suck them up in it, that should be quite the challenge after a week of being in the net.

You are probably talking about doing what Larry wrote about in his post on stripping, right? To wash out the ones that don't pour out? If your breeding net is in the fry tank, you probably won't have to do that with this batch. You can just lower the net's rim below the water level and tip it over and they will usually swim right out.

I apologize if I'm way off base here. (I didn't get much sleep last night.) roll eyes I was just picturing trying to catch fry with a turkey baster and those little rascals can be really quick!

Congrats, Don! the Clap

I have 6 Acei in my tank and like Kim said, they
like to stick their head out of the water when you feed
them. Bouncy

One day last week, I had one jump out of one side of my tank
and land on top of the glass lid on the other side of the tank! fishy

If I remember correctly, this is instinctive because they live
in shallower water and like to eat insects around wood.

Wrong? idunno

Don, post a pic of some fry when you can! whoot whoot

Aura, you're not off base -- I appreciate the help! Good Job

The breeder net would not fit in the 6G fry tank, so I have it in my 12G grow-out. The albino Ps. Socolofi and Lab. Hongi fry there are definitely big enough to at least THINK they could eat these Acei fry so they can't be combined for a while. So I can't just dump them out of the net.

If the turkey baster only works with super-newborn don't-move-much fry I'll have to go back to my plan of putting a plastic specimen box under and around the net, then lifting it out of the 12G still submerged and then seeing if I can get the fry out of the net and into the specimen box. Then I could gradually mix water to acclimate and then pour them into the 6G.

Since the slightly older fry are already navigating well as they go after powdered flake I wanted to give the new kids a little practive before they faced competition for food.

Any suggestions as to better ways to proceed? Thanks!

You may need to "collapse" the breeder net and then turn the net wrong side out to release the fry. That is what we do when we leave a female in there too long and she spits.

I recently put some new Cobalt fry in with a group of older acei, thinking logically that the acei were passive enough that the new fry would be fine. Only 3 of the Cobalts survived my blunder!

You've got those plant things on the bottom, right? The more hiding places you have, the earlier you can add the new babies...And I would add them at "lights out" for the evening to let them settle in and find their spot.

HTH

Kim

Collapsing the net is what I would do too.

The only thing I've been able to use the turkey baster for was eggs or early stripped fry that are still mostly egg. It's also good when you have stripped into a bucket or other container that is too large to submerge into the tank. You'll find that when you go to gently dump the fry into the tank that there's always one or two that don't go out with the water and will stick to the sides. That's when the baster comes in handy. You just gently wash them down by squirting a little water with the baster.

I normally leave mine in the net/box for as long as needed. I have plenty of the breeder boxes so there's no rush to get them out. I like keeping them in there because they have good access to the food - I don't feed as much, but it's easier for them to find it. I did a little experiment and kept some in the box and let some out into tank and found that the boxed ones grew faster.

I put an airstone in the breeder box to make sure the water circulates well (learned that from cturner) and let them get some growth on them before they go in with the older fry. When that time comes, I throw in some extra decorations and just tip the breeder box over and out they go.

Thanks to you both! I'm going to leave them in there for a while instead of moving them. If Aura's theory is correct they may catch up with the size of the Acei already in the 6G.

Another case of Cichlid Haven advisors stopping me from making a mistake! the Clap

I realized I have two more "2 sisters holding" questions...

1. Is combining different sizes of fry safer if they're the same species?

2. If I'm understanding posts above, if you have a same-species tank you'll have a higher survival rate if a female spits in the tank. Do they actually recognize same-species fry or did I just misread a post?

Thanks again!

1. Hmmmm I don't think so, but I can't say that for sure.

2. Hmmmm I don't think so, but I can't say that for sure either. I didn't interpret any of the posts like that, but if it was something I said, I might have worded it in a confusing way. :blink: If it was about letting the fish hold to term in the breeding tank or main tank, what I meant was leaving them in the main tank until spitting or stripping day and not putting them into a separate holding tank a week or two before that day. This way they don't spend too much time away from their tank mates and won't have to establish themselves back into the group again.

You can leave them in the main tank until day 18 or 21 or whichever day you decide, strip the fry, and they go right back into the tank. Nobody ever notices that they were ever gone.

If the babies are spit into the tank with adults, I would think that a lot would be eaten no matter what species.

Thanks, Aura -- that all makes sense to me.

I have so much to learn that I like to keep asking questions, and sometimes the answers are counterintuitive.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Don

Pseudo, I'm still learning too, not just by asking questions, but by what others ask as well. Good Job

I like to read all of the varying responses because we all have different ways of doing things. What works in one tank might not work in another. It's nice to have some options and to also learn from mistakes others have made.

I combined the two sets of fry tonight, taking a large specimen box and placing it under the breeder net, then lifting the net out of the tank surrounded by its new mini-aquarium. As you suggested, I then collapsed the net off the frame and then gently turned the net so the fry swam out into the specimen tank. After acclimating the water in the specimen box with a slow mix from the new tank, I poured the fry into their new home.

I have the lights out, and the silk plants on the bottom provide hiding spots. But thus far it looks like everyone is getting along!

I did spend the last week giving the younger fry 3 meals a day and 1 or 2 meals to the older fry, to try to reduce the size difference before I mixed them.

Thanks again for the advice! I now have about 45-50 Acei fry all together!

That's great, Don! You'll find the acei fry grow faster than other mbuna, or at least mine have.

I've also recently discovered that due to my crazy male/ female ratio with my aceis (4 males and 1 female) my spawns are going to be few and far between, unless it's that the female just isn't mature enough to spawn normally.

Good luck with those fry! Have you decided what you're going to do with them? I suppose that's too many to keep...Do you plan to add to your existing group and then sell the rest?

Kim

Congrats on the fry transfer and good luck with the fry
growing up together! the Clap

I'm thinking that after I grow them out I'll keep a couple of females and swap the rest. If there were any way to swap with fellow CH'ers I'd love to do so!

My problem is that the nearest cichlid clubs are 60 and 90 miles away, so getting to meetings is harder, especially when one is Saturday night.