I have a fairly new 55g mbuna tank and I was just looking for any tips or suggestions anyone might have.

These are the fish I have:
Pseudotropheus crabro x3
Pseudotropheus lombardo x2
Melanochromis johannii x3
Metriaclima estherae x3
Labidochromis caeruleus x1
Tiger Barbs x5

I did have two of the yellow labs but one died from what I can only assume was bullying. I haven't had any other problems and I'm trying to keep it that way. All of them are juveniles, but I'm unsure of the sexes right now. I would certainly be appreciative of any information :D

Welcome, PGA!

How large are the Mbuna in your tank -- are they juvioes or adults?

We just had a thread a few days ago about Ps. crabro! The link is http://cichlidhaven.net/index.php?showtopic=470

You have some rough customers in there, though the Estherae is the only one with which I have personal experience.

What kind of rockwork do you have?

What kind of filter are you running? Do you know the gallons per hour it's pumping?

How long has the tank been up? Has it completed its ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle?

What are you feeding them?

Fill us in and we'll all do our best to provide some input! We're delighted to have you here as a member of Cichlid Haven!

Welcome to CH!

Pseudospecialops has asked some very good questions!

My main concerns in the tank would be the Ps. crabro and lombardoi...Both are best kept in larger tanks, I would say 75G minimum for best long term results.

The Yellow labs won't do well kept in smaller numbers...I've never had success in keeping only one or two of them in an aggressive tank. The lone yellow lab may also crossbreed with the estherae. (I would consider trading either the crabro or lombardoi in for more Yellow labs if at all possible - this would ease up on your potential aggression level and give you more of a chance for success with this set up. The crabro will get alot bigger than the lombardoi, but IME, the lombardoi can be more trouble in a tank that size!)

With your trios, you will ultimately want 2 females and 1 male. If by chance you have two males of a species in a tank that size, it won't work out long term. But, it should be fairly evident and something you can fix before things get too bad.

Is this your first cichlid experience?

HTH

Kim

Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm glad I was able to get such a quick response.

Now, to answer your questions...
They are all juveniles. I have rockwork up about 1/3 of the tank right now and I plan on getting some more to get it up to about 1/2. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places but I'm not getting the rocks I want so I'm hesitant to get a whole lot of it all at once. Maybe I'm just not looking enough though. The fishies don't seem unhappy with it right now.
I have an Aquaclear 500 and an Emperor 280 and I was planning on replacing one with a good size canister filter in the next month or two.
The tank has been up for a little over 3mos. and I cycled the tank using BioSpira which worked pretty well for me. I haven't seen any problems with the ammonia cycle since then. The tiger barbs went in and then the cichlids went in a month after that.
Right now I feed them Tetra Cichlid Crisps and Hikari Cichlid Staple. And this is my first cichlid experience, actually my first aquarium experience.

Is the reason a larger tank is suggested for the lombardoi and crabro because of their aggresiveness or size? Should I replace both or do you think I'd be ok just trading the lombardoi for a few more labs? Do you have any suggestions regarding food?
Do you know at what point I will be able to tell the sexes apart? I'm pretty sure one of the estheraes is a male but unsure about the other two. I think I have one if not two male crabros. I have at least one male johannii...I did get the information about keeping more females than males, but I wanted to start with them all at juveniles and it's hard to tell. I figured they would all grow up as friends. I guess this will not be the case, huh?

I DO believe that fish that grow up together can be more forgiving of our mistakes than those we just throw in together as adults! But some species are just naturally more aggressive than others, and the aggression level will increase as they sexually mature, no matter what you do.

The crabro and lombardoi are your biggest obstacles, although a maniacal red zebra male can teach you a thing or two as well.

If you do have two males of a species, that will be where you notice your aggression first, between them. Their first instinct will be to "fight on the playground" before they even realize they want to mate.

With mbuna, it's all about the footprint of the tank, or the floor dimensions. They don't care much for the upper part of the tank, unless we're talking aceis, so the males will squabble and fight over the floor space, once they start to mature. Sometimes you can alleviate some of it by removing rocks, or adding rocks, or just mixing things up on them in general by rearranging the tank.

If you have two male crabros, you will need to get rid of one of them at some point. Your subdominant male may not colour up like a male, so it may be harder to identify. But if you're observant, you should be able to tell what is what by just watching the action between the two possible males. The behaviour directed towards the female will be more chasing than anything, but it will be a bit more vicious among males.

IME, a male kenyi needs more females than most species, which would be dedicating your tank to them, and with the potential to blow up on you in less than a 75G anyway, it wouldn't be a chance I would want to take. That is why I suggested exchanging them for more Yellow labs.

Yellow labs are great in larger groups, you'll see more "cichlid like" behaviour from them, and if you can get a nice group of them, they reproduce like rabbits, and are always in demand.

You want to research a bit on your fish to determine their dietary needs. Your food choices are fine, but before you start feeding anything extra you need to determine whether it is suitable for them or not. Malawi cichlids are prone to bloat, and it is usually diet or stress related. I prefer finding one food that I am comfortable with using and sticking to it rather than feeding a variety of foods. That way if I have any problems, I know what to blame it on.

HTH

Kim

Awesome! Thanks for all the tips. I will see what I can do about moving the lombardoi out. I wanted to get another tank soonish but from what you're saying it will definitely not be big enough for them. It's a shame, cause they look so nice.
I have already seen that the red zebra that is definitely male is certainly one of the more aggressive fish in the tank at the moment. I'll have to keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't become murderous.
Hopefully the sexes will pan out because the fish selection in the immediate area seems rather poor, so it may be some trouble trying to get it corrected. I had a store here order the fish I have now, but that was more of an ordeal than I'd hoped for.

Any idea on an approximate time for them to reach adult size? I've read that it'd be a good bit but I was just curious what kind of experience you've had.

If it's any consolation I also have an Estherae whom I have to move out because he will get too big and nasty, and I don't want to use the space to buy him a harem.

I concur with Kim that a group of Yellow Labs makes a great personality and color match for a tank because they're so mellow and so yellow. I really enjoy watching my group.

I keep hearing 12-18 months for growing out, though I should defer to the more experienced Malawi keepers here.

I got my juvies at about 1.5" 6 months ago. The biggest of the group -- the aforementioned Red Zebra himself -- is now about 3", so he's quadrupled his mass and doubled his length in that time.

I definitely see increasing signs of sexual maturity and more strident competition than when they were smaller -- this started as multiple males started to pass about the 2" mark. Lots more egg spots on the males, more sparring over food, females, caves etc. So I know I have a time bomb there as these guys continue to grow.

My dwarf cichlids like the Lab. Mbamba have obviously not gotten as large, but all the other issues of maturation are the same.

The good part of the sexual maturation is that I've had 4 spawns in that tank, two of which I got the mothers out for so I have fry.

The biggest of my fry that were born 4 months ago is now about 1.5".

I imagine professional breeders produce a faster rate of growth through more intense feeding.

I have successfully ordered fish from an online breeder, though it sounds like I have more quality LFS's within a couple of hours drive than you may have access to.

Hope this helps! Great to have you here at Cichlid Haven!

Don

PS: Six months from now you'll be the one helping others set up their Mbuna tanks here at Cichlid Haven! I predict it!

I think the growth rates really vary with the species we keep.

The dwarf mbuna seem to start off growing faster, but slow down after they reach about an inch.

The regular sized mbuna tend to start off slower, and start growing better after they reach about 2 inches!

Frequent feedings and water changes tend to help the grow out time with younger fish, and we usually start off pretty good with our diligence for the first month or so, then when we slack off a bit, they slow down on their growth!

Kim

Glad to see that you have entered the world of cichlids
and CH! B)

In regards to your filtration needs, IMO, I would replace
the Emperor 280 with either a Rena XP2 or Rena XP3.

Eheim canisters are probably more superior, but for the
money, you can't go wrong with the XP series.

The XP2 would suffice in the 55 gallon, but I would
pony up the extra 10-15 dollars and get much more
GPH and media baskets. This way, you get more bacterial
surface for your beneficial bacteria to colonize!

Good luck and happy cichlid keeping! Cheers!!!

all I can say is listen to those guys they know what they are talking about trust me :)... and WELCOME... Cheers!!!

Greetings and Salutations PGA, welcome to CH! Being a mbuna neophyte, I dont have anything to add other than you seem to have every thing in order. These guys around here a great with just about any fish you want to keep. Its nice to have ya aboard, and I sure would like to see a pic of that tank.

Re filters, most of the ones I use are Fluval 405's, which I standarized on to save money on media and to allow me to see new tanks with media from old ones. I've been pleased with them.

So now you've been given thumbs up on 4 different brands of filters! :D

First off, I'm sorry I found this thread so late or I would have thrown my experiences out there already. I must add some information on the Lombardoi, all from my breeding experiences.

I had a 55 gallon tank with an assortment of Mbuna and 2 of those happened to be 1 male and 1 female Lombardoi (Kenyi). As they grew they started to spawn. I had never had a problem with my male before just some short chases but no real territory disputes. When I upgraded my 55 gallon with a 90 gallon that's when all he** broke loose! The male beat the snot out of an albino greshakei that I had (pics below) and killed an male estherea overnight. So I switched the tank around in hopes that would settle him down but that just made him worse. He was fighting with everyone and it was time for him to go. Sadly I had to put him to sleep. That was a hard day because he was one of my first african cichlids. Between this pair (which I later learned was not good) my female spit over 1,000 fry. For the longest time those fry had funded my MTS!

Also if you like the colors of the Lombardoi you could try some Saulosi. The males turn blue and the females stay the radiant yellow-orange.

Just figured I would share....Thanks for listening to my rambling!

Thanks to everybody for the welcome and the tips. I'm certainly gonna try to keep my tank healthy and my fish happy. I'll get some pics up eventually, but that'll be a while because I don't have a digital camera.
There are terror stories of lombardoi from everyone. I'm not interested in becoming another victim.
I have been looking at the canister filters and I had it down between one of the Eheim canister filters, a Rena XP, or the Marineland C-series. It seems that everyone thinks rather highly of the Eheims, but I didn't read anything from you folks about the C-series. I have read a couple good reviews but they are so new that it's hard to find much about them. Have any of you any experience with the C-series or is that one to stay away from?

I've read about 4 reviews on the new Marineland C series and they
seem to be fine!

They are so new, however, that only a few people have tried them.

The one thing I discovered is that the C series filters run about $30
higher for the same amount of GPH as a comparable Rena XP!

Eheims, from what I have heard, are the best on the market, but they
are much more pricier than other canister filters with similar GPH!

But, since this is your first canister and if the little bit of extra money
involved in purchasing the C series doesn't bother you, then go for it!
Keep you receipt and take it back if you don't like it!

Also, be sure to check out the online stores and also check out Petsmarts
online store. They will give you the same price at the store as listed online.
Just print out the online page and take it to the store.

Lastly, sorry for the lengthy post, if you do get the C series, let us all
know how you liked it after a few weeks or months!

Good luck and happy fishkeeping!

PGA, check out the link below for reviews on
the C series canister filters from Marineland!

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_...iew.php?id=1169