Because she is so net-shy and protective I have decided to do a high-risk experiment and leave my young Yellow Lab mom in with her fry for a few days more. The fry have lots of rock and low-lying plastic plant cover, and so far, so good.

I give the Mom a small serving of flake 3 times a day, followed by powdered flake for the fry. Twice today I saw her take one of the full-sized flakes, chew it up and spit it out and then not eat it, only to go after another flake instead.

A bad-tasting flake? Or acting as a baby-food manufacturer for her fry?

But she is eating???

I've never left a mom in with the fry afterwards as far as mbuna go, so I have no clue.

I've always heard that you had to remove the mom within a day or so after spitting before she eats the fry. This could very well be an "urban myth" like so many other things in the hobby.

I've just never been brave enough to find out! Sad

Do the fry seem to be hanging out with her, or staying away?

I once had a holding female fuelleborni in a breeder net in a 10G tank with a bunch of fuelleborni fry from another female. These little guys were 2-3 weeks old and getting a bit of size to them, but for days after I put the holding mom in that breeder net, they all congregated outside the net, close to her face, whichever way she was facing!

And, once, before you came along, I posted a pic of some freshly stripped fry. They were Rusty fry, and in the middle of them was this one little interruptus that was twice the size of the Rusty fry. The little Rusty mom had been in a breeder net in a 10G that held the interruptus fry. She kept jumping out of the net and into the main tank, and we couldn't figure out why. When we stripped her and found the interruptus fry, we figured it out. She wanted to "mother" the other fry.

Sometimes I think we don't give these fish enough credit!

So, in my long rambling way, I'm saying that anything is possible!

Kim

Unfortunately, mom eating the fry is not an urban myth.

I had a little demasoni that spit in a 10 gallon tank and the next morning every fry had disappeared. She had to have eaten them. Boo Hooo

But I've also had moms in with the fry for two or three days without incident. Back when I had my first holding mom, I left her with the babies for more than a week and she never harmed them.

Hopefully, your lab will be one that isn't interested in eating the babies. Good Job

As for the spitting of the flake, I haven't seen that. I've seen them take in food while still holding and wondered if they were eating it or if it was for the babies. That would be something if she was breaking it up for the little ones.

Good luck with your experiment.

Day 4: so far, so good. She's eating well, babies doing OK.

I tried this because I'm scared to strip females (yes, I used the "s" word that guys aren't supposed to use!) and she was so hyperprotective that I was afraid she'd grab and take multiple fry back to the main tank when I went to net her back.

I have two spreading plastic plants on the floor of the 6G that cover about 2/3 of its floor, plus a single rock. Thus far the fry have been hanging out below the plants and rock and generally working to stay out of mom's way.

I know this may end in a Sad post where I say she ate them, but she remains hyperprotective and if I do anything near her other than add food she dives to the bottom and appears to start looking for her fry.

She has not repeated the breaking-up food behavior, since that was probably coincidence. The "flake for mom, then powder for fry" routine seems to work well.

I'll keep you all posted... wish me luck! worry wart!

Nine days in and everyone is still behaving well. Mom is less paranoid and more interested in food.

I have to pull her out sometime in the next couple of weeks, though, because I need to get the Yellow Lab fry in with my pretty-much same-size Lab. Hongi fry so the Acei F who just started holding has a fry tank to spit in.

No matter how many fry tanks you set up, you never have enough...

Don, Pete and I are just discussing who to allow to spit in the main tanks. We took down a few tanks months ago in an effort to get out of the breeding aspect, but I think we should have talked to the fish about it first! Our Cyno. Mbambas and our zebra Long pelvics seem to have different plans.

I tend to get more enjoyment out of growing out the monomorphic fry. The dimporphic fry take too long to start to colour up, and I just don't want to devote the tank space to them anymore. Right now, we've got about 70 Mbamba fry and juvies growing out (both variants), about 50 zebra long pelvics, about 20 White tops, and who knows how many acei. The grow out tanks are full capacity, but we've got 3 holding moms at the moment.

Interesting log you are keeping here for the mom and fry! I wonder what "personality traits" are actually contributing to the success of this venture, or if it's simply that you're keeping her well fed???

Kim

True statement.

I've had to divide tanks in the past and now I just use the acrylic breeder boxes when I have fry of different sizes. I normally put a small rock or decoration of some sort right in the middle for the newborn fry to cluster up against. This keeps them from going straight to the ends of the box and getting bitten or pulled through the slots by the older fry outside. I've had as many as three of these boxes in one 10 gallon tank.



I just noticed in this picture, I also had my makeshift egg tumbler set up. :blink:

If you're running out of space and want to keep the fry, you might have to learn how to strip. It is scary at first, but it doesn't take long to get the hang of it. I don't like to do it, but in some cases there isn't a better solution.

Kim, good grief! roll eyes You guys have way too many fish!!

Excuse me??? Look at Ms. I- got- a -breeder- box -for -every- occasion! Giggly

Actually, someone suggested to me earlier this week that we just seal up our windows with silicone and flood the apartment... Blush

Sad thing is that for just a split second, I fantasized about it!

Kim

The moral of this story is "always listen to Kim and Aura, always listen to Kim and Aura..."

Buoyed by the initial success of leaving the mom in with the fry, with them having lots of hiding places, I just kind of let it run. That included the last 2 weeks, when I had a long business trip each week.

All was fine until, ironically the last 24 hours. Where before there were about 6 fry there now is only one. Surprised me after all this time.

"Always listen to Kim and Aura, always listen to Kim and Aura..." dumb dumb

Awwwww...And I was cheering you on! Gimme an A!

So much for motherly instinct, huh?

I had a female spit in a breeder net sometime this week, just noticed it last night, (we thought she had only been holding for a week, but we were wrong) and I almost left her in there with them, but Pete couldn't stand it and got her out and released the fry into the grow out tank.

You just never know, Don...I had a little holding Rusty once who kept taking interruptus fry into her mouth with her own babies. I thought those were some pretty strong instincts.

Kim

Oh, that's Sad. I was hoping they would make it too. The fact that she went this long without eating them is a pretty good record though. She went a lot longer than most probably would.

edit: I just noticed that where I typed in the word s-a-d, it automatically inserted that cute little smilie. :lol:

OK, here's another bizarre new chapter.

Mom is still in with the single fry, mainly because I've been in meetings etc. 24-7 at the office and haven not been here outside business hours to move her.

Today the single fry continues to survive in there. BUT she is refusing food and her buccal cavity is distended, as if she's holding!

Could she have gotten freaked about something and gone back to holding other fry? Anyone ever see this after 2 weeks?

I'm afraid to pop her back in the main tank now because if she's still holding the fry will have no chance with the Haps there.

Ideas?

Don

Don, you've certainly got some "Twilight Zone" material going on here!

Females will hold produce and hold eggs, even if a male isn't around. They will usually spit or swallow them after a few days when it finally dawns on them that they aren't fertilized!

I used to have a female auratus that we would strip on day 18 of holding. I would put her back in the tank with the male, and on the 10th or 11th day of going back in with him, she would be holding again, so some of these fish have a reproductive cycle that won't quit! Meanwhile, I have a young Cobalt female that will only breed every 4-5 months...

You've got a fertile little momma there!

Kim

Come to think of it, the fact that I saw her eat voraciously after the other fry disappeared supports the theory that she is not holding already-spit fry.

I think I'll pop her back after a short stay in a breeder's box "a la Aura" JIC there's someone alive in there.

Thanks for your help in this continuing drama. I'm one more Sad fishkeeper who proved that Cichlid Haven advice was accurate. Sad