"(Alot of people are using the new Seachem Stability and having major problems, so that is one I would steer clear of.)"


Kim- I've used Stability in the past without a problem. What kind of things have you heard about the product? I don't have need to use it anymore, but am wondering if I should be looking out for anything if I do?

One time I had a friend at school whose fish had all died, so she left the tank up and running with the water, but no fish for the whole summer. In the fall I brought her a large fish and a bottle of Stability. She doesn't measure water parameters at all, just makes sure the fish is still wet basically, but this fish, a mostly grown aulonacara, showed no signs of ammonia damage during what I thought would be the cycling period. Maybe there was still bacteria in the tank from the summer though?


I've also used Stability as insurance when a bio wheel filter has been accidentally turned off for several hours or overnight. We had our neighbors watching our fish for us when we were on vacation once, and they forgot to turn the filters back on after feeding. I had left a bottle of Stability for them to use "just in case." Maybe I would've been fine without the Stability, but I figured extra insurance is harmless.

The third time I've used Stability is when I had a ten gallon quarantine tank cycled with two fish residing in it, then came home from lfs with another fish that was pretty big so I put him in the ten gallon quarantine with the others and added Stability. ( Now I know I was taking a chance bringing in illness to the existing quarantine tank, but it was better than putting the fish directly into my main tank and possibly having a problem in 90 gallons of water with a full community.) Anyways, to make a long story short, I didn't have any problems using Stability in the ten gallon quarrantine when I added the larger fish.

Is it certain water conditions that the product doesn't work well with maybe?

Interesting. Up until now I had never heard of the stuff. I used to use a product called Biozyme . I stopped using it after losing my one and only attempt at Tropheus a long,long time ago on the recommendation of a respected hobbiest that the stuff caused massive nitrate blooms. That being said I can't see any other similar product being any different. Then again some people don't know how to follow directions on a bottle. Who's to know? Hmmmm

I'm still of the opinion that alot of these bacterial additives have the wrong bacteria in them anyways and don't bother with them. I see people adding "cycle" to their tank with every water change and I'm wondering why. I had no different results using these sorts of products or not using them. To me that just tells me I don't need it and haven't bought any in quite a while.

The major problems I am seeing is that hobbyist tend to think that when they use this stuff, the tank is ready for a full fish load...They add their full fish wish list, thinking they've got an instant cycle. They don't, the fish wind up going through the cycle because no one is checking water parameters...They then have to deal with the ramifications of it all.

It must be easier to find that Biospira in alot of areas...(I've never used Biospira, but have never heard anything bad about it at all, and alot of pros use it and recommend it...)

I used Stability in my SW tank and really liked it. But, you aren't going to overstock a saltwater tank, anyway, and the stock is still going to be added slowly - live rock is going to help with your water quality, as well, so it's a whole different ballgame.

I tend to agree with Lisa on this..."Bacteria in a bottle" isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Nothing beats a good piece of well used filter media!

A tank that sits without fish isn't cycled. It requires the waste from the fish to maintain the "cycle". But, adding one fish with the Stability at the same time would likely be just fine...It's just one fish...

It's just not a good way to start out with a tank and throw your entire stock list in!

Kim

I agree that "bacteria in a bottle" isn't going to provide an instant cycle for a full community of fish. I also agree that many people may not follow the bottle instructions exactly.

I also know people who use a cycling product with every water change, and I agree that it's totally unnecessary to use with a well-cycled tank.

I do think the BioSpira is not that easy to find. I've never seen it in a fish store. They seem to only carry Cycle and Stability around here.

I've used Cycle before in sort of emergency situations, and I really never had any complaints with it. But, again, the stocking levels were low, so I may have been just as well off without it. I can attest to it doing something...If you use it regularly and go ahead and start with water changes after a week, you won't see that cloudy bacterial bloom that people sometimes get.

I've never seen Biospira on the shelves, either. (Watch Larry step in and say I walk right by it every time I'm in the store! Giggly )

I've also heard of alot of people using products like this with every single water change...I don't think it's necessary, and it must get expensive.

Since Prime detoxifies ammonia, that would be the safest bet to use with every water change - as a dechlorinator and to help with the cycling process.

Another thing I've noticed...People drop their fish in new tanks all the time and then don't want to do water changes because they think it will "prolong" or "delay" their cycle. It might drag it out a bit longer, but it's certainly easier on the fish than dying of ammonia poisoning!

Kim

All of this discussion above is why I'm a big proponent of the fishless cycle!

I know, it's not necessary if you have previously cycled filters, but not everyone
has MTS (Mulitple Tank Syndrone) and don't have access to seeded filters.

In addition, the advantages of the "fishless" cycle is much better for the fish!

I did this with my new 75 gallon Mbuna tank and immediately added 30 juvies
to the tank with no ammonia spike whatsoever!

Now I'm not saying the fishless cycle is the only way to do it, nor am I critizing
those who don't use the fishless cycle!

I'm only saying that if we would only use a little patience (typically around 28 days) we could spare ourselves and fish a lot of stress!

PB- I've heard of the fishless cycle, but I've never needed to use it myself as I have MTS! How much ammonia do you add per gallon, or do you add it until you achieve a certain reading? Just curious.

I added enough pure ammonia to the water to make it read
around 5 ppm and then I kept adding 5 ml daily until the tank cycled
and until the fish were added!

HTH!

I agree that the fishless cycle is the way to go if you don't have established filter media to use.

The biggest mistake people make with the fishless cycle is NOT adding fish the day they stop adding ammonia. They don't realize they will quickly "lose" the cycle.

On a side note, you can even take a piece of your established media from another tank if the media doesn't fit the filter on your new tank.

And, alot of people will stick sponge filters in a big tank back behind some rocks and leave them running, just in case they need them to jump start a fry tank or hospital tank. This would work for a larger set up, as well.

Kim

dont flame me too bad here, but cycling a fresh water tank is not this complicated or critical- adding pure ammonia etc...

If you dont immediately stock the hell out of it and instead add fish slowly, there is nothing to worry about. Do a water change every week as you normally would and you will be fine. idunno

I agree with your statements, also, Les...

It's just that very few people take the time to do it that way! If they will, I always recommend starting with the most docile species first, waiting a week, then adding another species if the water is stable -saving the most aggressive for last.

That works well, but we still don't know how much long term damage the slight ammonia levels do to the fish.

And, people that stock their tanks too quickly tend to have more illness issues than those who do it slowly...

Then, you've also got those who are "afraid" to do those weekly water changes because they think it will slow down their cycle...Never mind what it's doing to the fish as the nitrites and ammonia begin to peak...

Kim

I am in total agreement Kim. I just think that some people dont fully understand the cycling process. If they did, then that would eliminate buying chemicals, wondering about stocking levels, apprehension to water changes etc...

I only posted my response to try and better understand where people are coming from. If they understood how the cycle starts, progresses, and is maintained full circle- that would really put an end to the guess work and to alot of profits from companies selling product.

Really- in that bottle of beneficial bacteria that a tank owner purchases- how long has it been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse? Was the warehouse cold in the winter months, was it nonairconditioned in the summer months? Is it two years old?
What is feeding the bacteria in that bottle to sustain their life while they await being released into a tank? These are all variables that the buyer does not know and would undoubtedly affect the usability of the product.

Why would anyone take that chance when the nonchemical way is so easy?

sorry. I just reread this post and I dont mean to rant or sound condescending to anyone

I wonder about those things, as well.

I've bought these products refrigerated and non refrigerated. One LFS says keep 'em cold, one says no need...

I guess no one knows!

Kim

This has been a great thread. Thank you everyone for your input! I hope that people will find it useful. the Clap I remember when I was just beginning... I certainly heard my share of misinformation (straight from the lfs I might add!) and I learned mostly by trial and error. I think the internet had just really begun at the time, and there were no fish forums. That was about 17 years ago. Thank you to all for chiming in!