I haven't chimed in on this discussion because I don't feel I'm in a class
of these posters caliber. Just not enough experience to post something useful.

But now, I do have question/dilemma for all of you.

I have a yellow lab that I know for sure has been holding for at least 17 days.
I got her exactly 17 days ago and she was holding when I got her. I don't know
when she spawned, but I'm beginning to get concerned about her health.

What should I do?

Should I wait and see or should I attempt to strip her of the fry?

I lean toward waiting it out because if I had to choose a side in this debate, I would be in the natural camp.

But in the case of jeopardizing the mother, I feel I would rather save her and strip
the fry.

Yellow labs are notorious for holding longer than other Malawians. I had a female that held for almost 30 days once. She must have been eating some food in that time frame, since she had viable fry.

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard you say.

Take it back... Grrrr

You have an opinion, you just stated it. You'd rather go the natural route. Tres Bien!

All the posts here are just opinions, Mark. You are one of the most insightful people I've ever met, and I don't want to ever see you stand back and refrain from posting in a thread.

Consider yourself scolded.

And then hugged... grup hug

Is the little Yellow lab looking worse for wear? Is she really thin? Stressed? Do you have her in a tank of her own?

If you've got her by herself and she isn't stressed by other fish and you don't need the tank space for something more important (like a sick fish or another overly harrassed mom), I would wait it out as long as possible. You might even try dropping a bit of food in there as "incentive". (bribery, blackmail...whatever you want to call it!)

What always worries me in cases like this is that if you wait too long and she still hasn't released, the actual stripping MAY be too hard on her...This happened recently with a trewavasae female of ours. The little ding-a-ling was only holding 3 fry, but was determined to hold on to them til Christmas. She was so emaciated by the time she released them that we still have her in a tank recuperating - 1 month later. The male is just too brutal on his females to put her back in until she's 100%, and I don't think she's there yet.

Kim

Thanks Kim, and I consider myself thorougly scolded!

She is in a 29 gal tank all by herself and she is getting a little thinner, but
not too much to be alarmed by right now.

When I got her about 18 days ago, I tried to see if she would eat some flake food,
but she wasn't interested at all.

I haven't tried to feed her since, thinking that she probably wouldn't eat and the
food would just foul up the water.

I'm still patiently waiting it out and maybe later today I'll try to see if she will eat
some flake food.

Thanks to everyone for you help and I'll keep you updated!

PB, my Mbuna have routinely gotten into the 20-something day holding length and been fine.

After about 20 days I put a dab of powdered food in the tank for her -- I have seen a couple of my holding females take in extremely small bits of food. Dunno if they do it for themselves or the fry. I keep the amount very small.

Oh, and I agree 110% with Kim's Grrrr and her grup hug !

Thanks Don!

Kim, I tried to feed the mother this morning and she looked extremely
interested in eating the flake food, but she just refused to eat.

I felt like I was teasing her somehow and I feel bad about it now.

But it was worth a shot at it anyways!

Today is day #19 and counting!

19 days isn't too bad...Give her a couple more days and tease her again.

Don't feel bad. It's her choice! Giggly

Kim

This post has been split out of the debates area and moved to its own post.Please continue in the conversation

Derek

My holding females have always ignored regular flake, though I agree with Kim this could inspire them to spit if they feel they're in a place that is safe for the fry. I've had a mom spit within minutes after getting into the isolation tank.

When I've seen them take in food it's been the same powdery sizes I would feed to fry, hence my comment that I don;t know if they suck it in for themselves or for the fry as their egg saks disappear.

Hope this helps!

Hi PB! Hi!
No worries, @preacherboy! I wouldn't worry too much however. Mom will ever release the fry??? WHEN?? It s a very familiar question among us, the africaans lovers. Mom will decide when she's had enough of that. Tres Bien!

Most mouthbrooders will take eggs from when they spawn and hold for about 3 weeks. I*ve had females holding about 5 weeks and they are still alive . Skinnie but alive!
A few things that may factor into this would be other population in your tank and the size of your tank as well.
She will be fine and most likely has released them to eat. More then likely the reason they are not released more often is because of other fish in the tank. I'd reccomend you get a small fry tank like a 15 or 20 gallon tank. I use them myself for my mouthbrooding fry, and let the female just spit her fry there. I isolate my females after a week that I've found them to be holding eggs.
So, it would be a good idea to move her and the fry to an isolation tank. This is not a must but does allow her security enough to release the fry. Once released you can move her back into the community tank and raise the fry until they are large enough to compete with the adult fish.
I*ll show you 2 pics with my small females Yellow Labs holding. You can observe how skinnie they are..just because they are very good mothers. I was very exciting to see about 15 fry jump out her small mouth..Just amazing!




that s all for now..

crys

Thanks everybody and sorry to hijack the Debate thread Derek!
It wasn't my intention to do so!

Crys: The holding mother to be is in her very own 29 gallon tank all by herself.
I'm just going to have to be patient and let nature run its course.
Unless she goes beyond around 28 days, then I will have to learn how to
strip the mother to be from her fry.

Thanks again everyone!

Preacherboy, if she's in a 29 gallon all by herself, I'm sure she will release those fry without any problems when she's ready. Does the tank have some decorations to make if feel nice and secure?

I don't have any plants in it, but I do have some rocks in there that she can hide
behind.

The tank is in my bedroom so there isn't a lot of traffic in there to disturb her.

Thanks again, Aura, and I'm sure she will spit soon!

Well, good news for me, everybody,

She finally spit those precious fry out yesterday!

Mom wouldn't eat yesterday after I discovered she had spit, but
this morning, she was eating like a pig!

Now I have question for everyone interested in responding.

"When should I remove the mom back into the 125 tank?"
Thanks again to everyone who helped me!

Congrats 'preach",,,how many little ones did she spit?

I would return the mom as soon as she looks healthy. (not skinny).

Funny,,,when I saw that you wrote, "I am going to have to learn" to strip moms.
I was going to put in a pic for you to see. It's a pic of Les stripping fish into a pail and seeing fry leaving moms mouth.

Any pics yet?


AP.

Not yet AP!

I couldn't tell how many yet due to my rock work, but it
appears there are least 20-25!

I will probably put her in with the rest tomorrow.

how exciting pb!

For me it's been a crap shoot -- usually I put the mom back after a couple of days, though I'd prefer to let her feed without competition longer to regain strength.

I had a yellow lab mom eat her fry once when I left her in longer.

On the other hand, I have left my Msobo mom with her fry for 2 weeks now (since her tank has 4 other rowdy and tough Msobo females and I wanted her strength back) and this far the fry have been OK. Do have lots of plastic plants in the 6G for hiding, though.

Hope this helps!

Don

I realize this is very late, but CONGRATS! Please keep your lil' sis in mind when they grow up. All of my saulosi fry, born April 10 are still alive! I think I have 12 or 13, can't really tell. So, maybe we can do some trading. whoot whoot

Absolutely, sister of mine!

Everyone here on this forum knows I'm always looking for
saulosi, especially females!

Great to see you had a little time from nursing to visit with us again! Bouncy

Well, where have I been?

Congrats, Mark!

Let me tell you what I do with those moms after they spit...I keep a 10G set up (a 5G would work for most) and I keep a betta in it. This way, it's always cycled and ready to go if I need it for a hospital or "rehab" tank. The betta can be moved to a betta bowl, and resume his "vacation" at a later date, when the tank isn't in use.

Works really well for me, since I find these females just get bred to death at times. Gives them a nice long break, and time for you to build their strength back up!

Kim

Kim, that's a great idea!

PB, hope the fry are continuing to do well. Did I jusr miss it, or did you not give us a headcount of the babies?

Don

Thanks for the idea, Kim!

I waited about 5 days before I placed her back into the 125 tank.
She is doing great and seems to be recovering very nicely.

Hey Don, at first, I thought I had between 20-25 fry, but it looks now closer
to around 15 fry!

They are in a 29 gallon tank all by themselves right now and all are doing fine!
I don't know what I'm going to do with them after they grow out a little.
But I can tell you they come from some amazing parents that I got from
Birdman, Scott!

That's great preacherboy. Nice looking yellow labs seem to be harder and harder to find, at least around here. I'd be tempted to keep them all myself!

How many adults do you have?

lol pb, what dont you get from birdman?!

congrats on the fry though!
i gave away my hyper aggressive male i have, he knocked off all the males in the tank. including the saulosi(spelling right?) ob peacock, the eureka, and another yellow lab. they were all males.

are they eating now?

The fry are doing great and are eating crushed flake.

I have 5 adult yellow labs in my 125 tank.

Yes, Multies, I did get a lot of fish from Birdman because he was
moving away to Indianapolis and needed to sell his fish quickly.
And since he has such great high quality fish, I jumped on as many fish
as I could get. I even got my sister several fish from him.

PB, how are your fry doing?

They are doing great so far!

Right now, I have 11 fry in the 29 gallon tank all by themselves.

Still don't know what I'm going to do with them all, but I guess I'll
think of something when the time comes!

I don't need any more yellow labs in any of my tanks, so I guess I'll
just give them away!

Thanks for asking!

When the time comes to give them away let me know.

Sure will, Yodahorn!